A Left Wing Cannot Flap Alone, Which Is Why We Needed Dick Cheney's Endorsement

[Weltall]

So, as a short recap of what's been going on, the Republican Party is a clown's kingdom from top to bottom, and yet it is the Democrats who end up wearing pie. You might be asking yourself, what year is it? Is it 2010 and we're talking about the Democrats letting the Tea Party curb stomp Hope and Change before it is able to even walk? Is it 2014, and we're talking about the Democrats learning, to their evident surprise, that Obama's re-election was no more a national mandate on Democratic politics than was his first win? Is it 2016, and we're talking about how the absolutely unstoppable Death Star managed to blow itself up just as it was about to wipe out those pesky rebels once and for all? 

Haha no, nothing may have changed whatsoever about the ineptitude, arrogance, and blindness of the Democratic Party, or their ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, or their laser focus on squandering of whatever gains they actually do realize. However, it is, in fact, a different year on the calendar, and it is a new episode of let's be sad and argue about it. 

On today's episode, Donald Trump, at his weakest, oldest, and most pressured, managed to win a clear, undeniable victory over the forces of good. It was the most decisive outcome of his three campaigns. We join each other, with a lot of questions to ask ourselves.

Is the United States dominated socially, economically, and politically by racist morons, and should we apply that label to everyone who ever voted for Trump until they see the error of their ways and learn to vote correctly?
Did the Democratic Party seriously torpedo its own credibility and lose 20 million voters, or did those 20 million voters owe their votes to the Democratic Party, and should we focus on blaming and shaming them until they vote correctly with more consistently? 
Why did all those idiots vote for Trump because of the economy? Couldn't they see how good the economy is? Are they stupid?
Is it because Kamala Harris was a woman, or because she was a black woman? 
Was it even really as bad as it looks, since we did make a few marginal gains here and there? 


These debates, and more, on the 2024-28 episode of the traditional politics megathread

[Dark Jaguar]

And Cheney's daughter is, notably, NOT Dick himself.  I don't get this total obsession the democratic party, or partisan politics in general, has with "dynasties", but it's sickening.  I don't care if someone's "a Kennedy", least of all NOW, but it's simply a fact that if the democrats had approached him with similar position offers, he'd have gone to them, and I'd be angrily debating with ABF over how horrible a decision it was to ally with this particular Kennedy.  That being, Robert Kennedy Jr., a living Ren & Stimpy character who heard about a beached whale and told his daughter "Get the chainsaw, I have an idea!".

This entire concept of someone coming from "good stock" should have died in America's founding.  The very fact that TWO Bushes managed to become president is utterly disgusting simply because statistically speaking, the odds should have been vanishingly small, but people projected "Bushiness" onto the son, and were prepped to go further and get another Bush in the form of Jeb later on until Trump went gliding down the escalator.  The democrats even fielded Hillary, because primarily, "she's a Clinton".  Say what you will about her experience and qualifications, she was picked because she's a Clinton, and then after her loss, they were suddenly talking about getting Michelle Obama to run.  Legacies and dynasties need to die, because after Trump's death, we ALL realize who's going to come crawling out of the woodworks to run after him right?

[A Black Falcon]

On today's episode, Donald Trump, at his weakest, oldest, and most pressured, managed to win a clear, undeniable victory over the forces of good. It was the most decisive outcome of his three campaigns. We join each other, with a lot of questions to ask ourselves.

There's a lot to agree with here, but I have to push back against the 'most decisive outcome of his three campaigns' point, because I don't see any way that that is true.  In terms of national vote margin it is the first time that Republicans have won the national popular vote since 2004, and only their second time doing so since 1992 began the trend of Democrats usually winning the popular vote, but it was close -- the final margin's 1.5 points, less than the 4.5 point margin of 2020 or the 2.1 point margin of 2016.  Trump's going to end up with under 50% of the vote and the smallest US House majority of an incoming President since 1930.  He won, and it reflects incredibly badly on the American people that they were stupid enough to fall for his nonsense AGAIN, but it was not a blowout or 'the most decisive outcome', unless you just mean that the fact that he won at all and with any kind of popular vote margin makes it more decisive than the past two even though the margin is closer than either one.  And on that point... well yeah it'll surely get awful over the next four years but no, it wasn't a more decisive win than the last two.

Is the United States dominated socially, economically, and politically by racist morons, and should we apply that label to everyone who ever voted for Trump until they see the error of their ways and learn to vote correctly?
Did the Democratic Party seriously torpedo its own credibility and lose 20 million voters, or did those 20 million voters owe their votes to the Democratic Party, and should we focus on blaming and shaming them until they vote correctly with more consistently? 
Why did all those idiots vote for Trump because of the economy? Couldn't they see how good the economy is? Are they stupid?
Is it because Kamala Harris was a woman, or because she was a black woman? 
Was it even really as bad as it looks, since we did make a few marginal gains here and there? 


These debates, and more, on the 2024-28 episode of the traditional politics megathread

It is worth noting again that almost every single ruling party in the world that had an election in 2024 did worse than their previous election.  The US actually was one of the least o the collapses on the list, most other countries did even worse.  The only places where the ruling party actually held on to power without losing margin were Ireland and Mexico, and in the Mexican Presidential election the collapse of the opposition was a big factor in why.  Everywhere else, from Japan to the UK to France, Senegal, South Africa, India, and more, incumbent parties all lost.

With that said though, given that the US economy really is in a pretty decent spot right now, better than almost anywhere else... yes, I think that I entirely agree with what you said about the US electorate being so spoiled that they don't realize how good we have it.  Yup.  Is there a better explanation for people voting for the guy promising to ruin the economy because they don't think it is good enough?  If there is I can't think of it...

[A Black Falcon]

Broke: Caring about Ukraine

Woke: Threatening war with Canada, Mexico, Denmark, and Panama

Trump's going to do great, no issues here at all.

[Dark Jaguar]

Broke: Caring about Ukraine

Woke: Threatening war with Canada, Mexico, Denmark, and Panama

Trump's going to do great, no issues here at all.

I have no idea what this means.

[A Black Falcon]

Trump's saying that he wants the Panama Canal and Greenland, on top of his trade wars with Canada and Mexico.

[Weltall]

With that said though, given that the US economy really is in a pretty decent spot right now, better than almost anywhere else... yes, I think that I entirely agree with what you said about the US electorate being so spoiled that they don't realize how good we have it.

I think what we saw was that, when individual voters experience rising grocery prices and skyrocketing rent, being told the US economy is doing really well sounds hollow and out-of-touch.

Insofar as it being his most decisive result, it isn't about the numbers. It's the fact that he barely squeaked it out the first time, lost outright the second time, was indicted almost a hundred times, was convicted of three dozen felonies, and in spite of all that, this election was essentially over as soon as the polls closed, and there was absolutely no uncertainty of the outcome 24 hours later. You could call 2016 a fluke and 202 a correction, but in many ways, this is a confirmation that the Democratic Party is broadly lacking in credibility with voters and painfully lacking in competence with regards to managing campaigns and messenging, at the game of electoral democracy in general, and worst of all, unwilling to adapt even in the face of catastrophic defeat, as we are seeing with the wizened neoliberal losers in command continuing to demonstrate that personally empowering themselves and enriching each other is all they really care about.

[A Black Falcon]

... So it's only been a few days but thanks to a huge lineup of executive orders and the (expected but incredibly evil) pardons of the Jan. 6 rioters, this is already surely one of the worst weeks in American political history, and am I even exaggerating?

[Dark Jaguar]

Only a little.  The good news is a number of the orders given were... contradictory or not within his actual powers and are being challenged.  The bad news is the supreme court is where those challenges will end up.  The good news is that'll take years.

Anyway, congratulations to Donald Trump, first female President of these United States!  Look I know the order I gave is going to cause direct harm to real people, but I am taking a little humor where I can.

Also, protect yourself ABF.  This is going to be a long and dangerous four years.  We've been hiding our identities online for quite some time, and I'd recommend you keep that up.  Numerous news stations are engaging in unprompted preemptive compliance with the current regime, and it's already resulted in a meteorologist being fired for calling a nazi salute what it is... on a private account.

[Dark Jaguar]

Some more good news:

[Weltall]

I would say that it's a sure sign of these times, that the birthright citizenship thing already feels like it was a year and a half ago. Anyway, how are we all enjoying the cheap groceries and gas prices?

[Dark Jaguar]

I would say that it's a sure sign of these times, that the birthright citizenship thing already feels like it was a year and a half ago. Anyway, how are we all enjoying the cheap groceries and gas prices?

Hah!  It's just getting worse, and for that matter, now we have a very specific order that refugees "of European decent" are being allowed and no one else.  It's straight up racism coded into law directly.

[A Black Falcon]

It's almost Orange Monday (the term is now trending), the day worldwide stock markets absolutely crater because OBVIOUSLY Donald Trump would never actually follow through on his promise to massively raise tariffs.  I mean, duh!  Who'd ever do something that stupid?  Nobody.  So no, have no fear about voting for Trump, it'll be just fine.  So said the press, and peoples' minds where they love to create fictional worlds where Trump will do whatever they want and not what he's saying. 

Oh, wait, he actually believes this?  Well, this is probably the first time a worldwide economic collapse had one very clearly identifiable person as the reason.  That's fine though.  Go Trump!  Who needs an economy?

[Dark Jaguar]

[A Black Falcon]

Aww, Elon and Donald had a falling-out, how sad!  Such a beautiful friendship is over...

Which brings us to this perennially relevant cartoon from the first Trump administration:

[Dark Jaguar]

"This is how strong men resolve their differences!"

Apparently, throwing temper tantrums in front of the whole world is how "strong men" lead.

But for one thing, what's getting "resolved" here?  Sounds to me like it's just over between them.  However, as public as this is, let's not get too distracted from DEPLOYING THE NATIONAL GUARD INTO L.A.!  That seems to me to be the big story.  I've actually heard some people claim THAT'S the distraction, and well, I'm going to have to quote one of Murphy's Laws here.  "The distraction you're ignoring is the main attack."

[Sacred Jellybean]

The White House knew that most of the people they deported had no criminal records. Guess they made the mistake of having brown skin and being in the wrong place and the wrong time (the place is America, and the time is after Trump was elected).

https://www.propublica.org/article/trump...-venezuela

[Geno]

Aww, Elon and Donald had a falling-out, how sad!  Such a beautiful friendship is over...

Elon said that Donald should be impeached. I agree! (For all the good it did the first two times.)

Steve Bannon said that Elon should be deported. I agree!

My enemy's enemy is... also my enemy, turns out.

[Sacred Jellybean]

Elon said that Donald should be impeached. I agree! (For all the good it did the first two times.)

Steve Bannon said that Elon should be deported. I agree!

My enemy's enemy is... also my enemy, turns out.

https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-...825121606/

I'm surprised Trump's response to Elon has been so subdued. I feel like if anyone else called him a pedophile online, with millions of devoted followers, he'd fall into conniptions that'd last for months. Kind of disappointed that he didn't continue the feud, but it's amusing in its own right that he backed down and just grumbled something about Elon's government contracts.

I guess Elon sobered up because he deleted the tweet calling Trump a pedo (probably the others too).

[Geno]

Elon said that Donald should be impeached. I agree! (For all the good it did the first two times.)

Steve Bannon said that Elon should be deported. I agree!

My enemy's enemy is... also my enemy, turns out.

https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-...825121606/

I'm surprised Trump's response to Elon has been so subdued. I feel like if anyone else called him a pedophile online, with millions of devoted followers, he'd fall into conniptions that'd last for months. Kind of disappointed that he didn't continue the feud, but it's amusing in its own right that he backed down and just grumbled something about Elon's government contracts.

I guess Elon sobered up because he deleted the tweet calling Trump a pedo (probably the others too).

If Musk knew that Trump was on the Epstein list and said nothing about it until he got mad at Trump, then Musk is not a good person. And if Trump is in possession of the Epstein list, one would think he'd want to absolve himself of allegations about being on the list by immediately releasing it to the public... that is, unless Trump actually is on the list. And I mean... we've all seen the photos. We know they were buds. We know sexual misconduct was happening. The evidence is in plain sight.

Sadly, Trump seems to be immune to all consequences to his actions. The Biden years gave me some false hope that accountability might occur. Instead, Trump became president again. Why, oh why, do we let the worst, most contemptible people alive run our society? I'm to the point where I sincerely believe that even the most moralistic of purity-culture-peddling evangelicals who support Trump are completely aware of their own hypocrisy in continuing to support him... they just don't care. (I guess purity culture is intended more to suppress women, but even then, all of the Christian Right's past criticisms of Clinton are at least equally true for Trump, but again, they don't care.)

[alien space marine]

The Governor of Maine is begging us Canuck's to visit trying to make us all feel guilty saying it’s safe, Is Stephen King’s favourite horror setting safe for Canadians tourists? ? 

 45% of Maine voters who participated in the 2024 election voted for the real world President Greg Stillson, the antagonist of Stephen King’s “the dead zone” a maniac destined to become president and use the nuclear football to start ww3  if the protagonist fails to take him out.

[Dark Jaguar]

Elon said that Donald should be impeached. I agree! (For all the good it did the first two times.)

Steve Bannon said that Elon should be deported. I agree!

My enemy's enemy is... also my enemy, turns out.

https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-...825121606/

I'm surprised Trump's response to Elon has been so subdued. I feel like if anyone else called him a pedophile online, with millions of devoted followers, he'd fall into conniptions that'd last for months. Kind of disappointed that he didn't continue the feud, but it's amusing in its own right that he backed down and just grumbled something about Elon's government contracts.

I guess Elon sobered up because he deleted the tweet calling Trump a pedo (probably the others too).

If Musk knew that Trump was on the Epstein list and said nothing about it until he got mad at Trump, then Musk is not a good person. And if Trump is in possession of the Epstein list, one would think he'd want to absolve himself of allegations about being on the list by immediately releasing it to the public... that is, unless Trump actually is on the list. And I mean... we've all seen the photos. We know they were buds. We know sexual misconduct was happening. The evidence is in plain sight.

Sadly, Trump seems to be immune to all consequences to his actions. The Biden years gave me some false hope that accountability might occur. Instead, Trump became president again. Why, oh why, do we let the worst, most contemptible people alive run our society? I'm to the point where I sincerely believe that even the most moralistic of purity-culture-peddling evangelicals who support Trump are completely aware of their own hypocrisy in continuing to support him... they just don't care. (I guess purity culture is intended more to suppress women, but even then, all of the Christian Right's past criticisms of Clinton are at least equally true for Trump, but again, they don't care.)

This is why they call him Teflon Trump.  Nothing sticks to him, even though he looks so very... very... sticky.

[Dark Jaguar]

And they're defending pedophilia now...

[Geno]

And they're defending pedophilia now...

Of course. Everything you think might be "the line" for conservatives, they just brush off as no big deal. These same conspiracy nuts have been peddling this narrative about deep state sex trafficking within the Democratic party for years, including the infamous Pizzagate scandal wherein Hillary Clinton was allegedly running a sex slave ring in the basement of a pizza parlor that... didn't have a basement. And now that it's becoming increasingly more difficult to deny that Trump was an Epstein client, suddenly pedophilia is okay. I even saw one comment (on Facebook, which I'm convinced is the website that convinced Ultron that the Earth can only be cleansed in fire) saying that we should forgive and forget because something something Jesus died for our sins. They're pretty much admitting at this point that he's a pedophile, but they just... don't care. Which doesn't surprise me in the least. If they didn't care about the Access Hollywood recording, why would they care about anything else he says, does, or has ever said or done for the rest of time?

[Dark Jaguar]

Which begs the question... what do they see in this guy?  What's his appeal?

[Weltall]

His wins are their wins, and he always wins. His enemies and opponents always look like fools in the end. What's not to love?

[Geno]

I also frequently wonder what the appeal is given that his amoral behavior and hateful, divisive rhetoric are directly antithetical to the Christian values the right purports to endorse (namely anything Jesus said--the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, etc.--they seem more obsessed with Old Testament, vengeful, Levitican-style legality, "rules for thee, not for me" theology). He's not even good at pretending to be morally upright. He's a pathological liar, and he's not even good at it; his lies are so unconvincing. He's not the slightest bit charismatic (Reagan at least had that going for him).

But yeah... as Weltall pointed out, they love how vulgar and hateful he is because he appeals to their basest instincts. He's "owning the libs." In the end, that's what's most important to them. He shares their enemies. He hates the same people they hate. And that's all they care about. Any morals, values, or principles that they claim to possess can easily be compromised or even discarded in favor of sticking it to those damn librulz. The MAGA cult is not unlike the KKK or the Nazi Party in their ability to rationalize obvious evil and still act like a loving, merciful God is on their side--such is the ways of cults.

[Weltall]

On the other hand, I have a 19 year old co-worker who is a kind, courteous, empathetic, and emotionally mature young man, not even jokingly racist or sexist, and he voted for Trump because he sincerely believed that the economy would improve. 

Lumping all his voters together feels good, but I also think it's counterproductive. It feels important to communicate with this guy, on the subject, in a completely unantagonistic manner. No disrespect. It's a little challenging, but maybe worthwhile.

[Dark Jaguar]

Say something often enough, people start to believe it.  The biggest mistake young people are making right now is the naive assumption that "no one gets to that point without having some talent/knowledge/basic competency".  Disabusing them of that notion, that sometimes the least qualified really CAN make it all the way to the white house, if they're rich and connected enough, is a very tough pill to swallow.  After all, he says these lies so confidently and even casually, as if "everyone knows" that.

[Geno]

On the other hand, I have a 19 year old co-worker who is a kind, courteous, empathetic, and emotionally mature young man, not even jokingly racist or sexist, and he voted for Trump because he sincerely believed that the economy would improve. 

Lumping all his voters together feels good, but I also think it's counterproductive. It feels important to communicate with this guy, on the subject, in a completely unantagonistic manner. No disrespect. It's a little challenging, but maybe worthwhile.

This is indeed challenging, and it's something I have to check myself on constantly. I have relatives who voted for Trump and will stand by that vote seemingly no matter what happens. Are they bad people? No. My mother, in particular, doesn't like anything about Trump but has been religiously conditioned all her life to oppose Democrats, and so she feels that Trump was "better than the alternative." She's also politically disengaged, so that doesn't help. But it also doesn't help that my uncle (her brother) is very politically engaged in the sense that being in right-wing echo chambers counts as engagement, and my brother is falling further and further down that rabbit hole himself (with a much more religious fundamentalist branding on his preferred echo chambers), and their views influence what little political belief my mom has. My uncle is very confident even when he is objectively wrong, but he's also not a bad person or even a dumb person--perhaps just a closed-minded and hard-headed person; he also claims to be a political moderate even though 99% of his ire is directed toward the left. My brother used to be much more politically moderate, and the abortion issue is why he skews right, but he's seemingly becoming more radicalized over the last few years. And yet, he is generally a kind person and has as much of an anxious, people-pleasing mentality as I do, probably even more.

All this to say that people are indeed nuanced, and as easy as it is to fall into the trap of lumping them all together as contemptible, terrible, stupid people, if we do that, they will perceive us as unhinged and continue to remain safely in their echo chambers away from those angry, hysterical liberals (which, in turn, also leaves us in an echo chamber of our own screaming into the void--cathartic, but ultimately not helpful). Conversely, there are actual MAGA fanatics out there who spout hate speech and complete idiocy with a smug confidence. There is no reasoning with those people. But not everyone on the right is like that, and many of them feel alienated by the left. My wife is a lot better than I am at helping my mom to see other perspectives without coming off as angry; it helps that my wife comes from a fundamentalist background and has seen the Heritage Foundation cult for what it is, but she also understands where the evangelical right is coming from because she, too, was once entrenched in that very same "us vs. the world" rhetoric.

Shit's complicated, yo.

[Weltall]

I absolutely, positively, 100% refuse to ever talk about politics with my dad, ever again, for the rest of his life. Period. For the sake of my mental health and sense of self-worth.

[Dark Jaguar]

I absolutely, positively, 100% refuse to ever talk about politics with my dad, ever again, for the rest of his life. Period. For the sake of my mental health and sense of self-worth.

I suspect there is a recent story here, and I must admit my curiosity while respecting your desire for privacy.

For so long as privacy is still legal at least.

[Sacred Jellybean]

I suppose I'm lucky. My family are all pretty firmly liberal, grew up watching Bill Maher (good god has he fallen from grace, though - his recent sane-washing of Trump was enough for us to ditch him). My mother's side of the family are all also mostly Democrat, save for a cousin who loves Trump. We usually just don't bring up politics on our yearly visits.

I've got a couple of friends I grew up with who, for reasons I will never understand, love Trump. It's really bizarre - one of them excoriated the Song of Ice and Fire book series, insisting to me that they were offensive to her as a woman. Years later, she's posting Trump's inauguration speech, saying how inspirational he is. She's also an evangelical Christian tradwife who's on like her sixth child. So it's not completely out of nowhere, but again, I don't understand these people's philosophy.

The other fell down some antivax rabbit holes and loves RFK Jr. He's just icing on the cake, though: she voted for Trump twice before 2024. It's really bizarre, because she otherwise seems like an intelligent, well-read, well-reasoned, charitable, open-minded person - not racist or homophobic. She's always been a Republican, or libertarian, whatever, but Trump?

I'm just completely perplexed in what these people see in him. I've earnestly tried to keep an open mind and see things from their perspective, listened to what they had to say. One of them linked this Cracked piece which honestly helped a lot. But I'll never 100% get there. 

I really want to know what they think of him now, after everything that's happened, but I refuse to have a conversation about it. It's just going to make my blood boil. I don't keep in touch with the first friend, and the second friend, if politics comes up, I just try to be deferential and steer things to common ground. There's no point in losing friends/family to politics (for me personally, at least). I've made that mistake before.

[Dark Jaguar]

I suppose I'm lucky. My family are all pretty firmly liberal, grew up watching Bill Maher (good god has he fallen from grace, though - his recent sane-washing of Trump was enough for us to ditch him). My mother's side of the family are all also mostly Democrat, save for a cousin who loves Trump. We usually just don't bring up politics on our yearly visits.

I've got a couple of friends I grew up with who, for reasons I will never understand, love Trump. It's really bizarre - one of them excoriated the Song of Ice and Fire book series, insisting to me that they were offensive to her as a woman. Years later, she's posting Trump's inauguration speech, saying how inspirational he is. She's also an evangelical Christian tradwife who's on like her sixth child. So it's not completely out of nowhere, but again, I don't understand these people's philosophy.

The other fell down some antivax rabbit holes and loves RFK Jr. He's just icing on the cake, though: she voted for Trump twice before 2024. It's really bizarre, because she otherwise seems like an intelligent, well-read, well-reasoned, charitable, open-minded person - not racist or homophobic. She's always been a Republican, or libertarian, whatever, but Trump?

I'm just completely perplexed in what these people see in him. I've earnestly tried to keep an open mind and see things from their perspective, listened to what they had to say. One of them linked this Cracked piece which honestly helped a lot. But I'll never 100% get there. 

I really want to know what they think of him now, after everything that's happened, but I refuse to have a conversation about it. It's just going to make my blood boil. I don't keep in touch with the first friend, and the second friend, if politics comes up, I just try to be deferential and steer things to common ground. There's no point in losing friends/family to politics (for me personally, at least). I've made that mistake before.

I think one key factor here is... the liberals don't have the answers to our problems.  They just aren't willing to go far enough to actually do what's needed, waffling about how they are focused on things like "making health insurance available", which you will note... it always has been, it just isn't AFFORDABLE.  They're too in bed with the donors funding their campaigns to want to rock the boat.  It's old school Thatcherism.  Just remember all the times liberals would speak out against gay people (including Obama and Hillary), only to have a "change of heart" the very instant public opinion was deemed to have shifted enough, but they'll only do that for things that don't threaten the bottom line.

So, the republicans promise THEY'LL fix everyone's actual problems.  They make them far far worse, and they create brand new problems instead.  We're in a state where there's a lot of people who vote for "the other one this time", nothing changes, and next cycle, they vote for "the other one this time".

You'll note I'm talking about a whole lot of different groups of people and their mindsets, but it all feeds into the Trump fundamentalist, who doesn't live in a vacuum, just a semi-isolated information silo.  They do GET visions of the outside world, filtered down through their social media feeds, and so they see some of this and it feeds their decision to worship this one golden man.

Bill Mayer's turn makes complete sense as well, when seen from the outside.  He supported his OWN status quo, the one he grew up in, fed this notion that the US had already solved all the major problems.  The man literally believes there isn't a problem with poverty in the US because he didn't see any poor people outside his LIMO driving in the rich side of town.

That's why I've shifted so far left over the years.  I don't consider myself an extremist, certainly not a violent one, but I understand that by U.S. politics, I am very far left.  By global politics, liberals, the leadership of the democratic party, are firm centrists.  The dream that a semi-free market and merely regulating against active discrimination would solve all our issues, but that dream hasn't been realized.  Corporations found ways around all of that stuff, and of course, they've never been our friends either.  Why did Target SUDDENLY turn against black people and the LGBTQIA alliance?  It's because they were never on their side in the first place.  They sided with the money, and that's it.  It's why Cracker Barrel changed their logo.  It's why Land O Lakes got rid of their mascot.  That's the only reason they make any decision.  Oh, and as to that Cracker Barrel thing?  That one's hilarious to me, because I LIKE their old logo.  No one I knew found anything offensive about it whatsoever.  They didn't even change it to appeal to any sort of progressive values.  They literally did it for the same reason every company has been sand blasting their logos into generic bland versions of their old symbols.  Just look at what Mozilla did to their Firefox logo.  All the identifiable details are brushed away into a generic hint of the original intent, like they're almost embarrassed at having an identifiable animal and planet in their logo.  That's why Cracker Barrel did it, and you got a whole bunch of weirdos screaming about "wokeness" or whatever.  But, back to my point, corporations make these choices to appeal to the widest audience and gain the most money, so of course they will ALWAYS go full racist if they think it'll be the biggest boon to their profits.  If they thought they could get away with it, they'd sell snuff films in Target.  That's just the reality.  They, like all gigantic corporations, are MERCENARY.  Sometimes more literally.  Walmart's got no problem selling guns in their sporting goods section for example.  They got rat poison in the same aisle as their candy, because they know how ridiculously oversugared their treats are and don't have an issue selling it.

They sold vapes to kids right up until the moment a law was passed restricting that, and of course now we know just how deadly vaping actually is... except the upcoming zoomers and alphas are already coming up with the same defensive attitudes about it that my grandparents and parents did for smoking...  "Well, those studies are biased and we should wait for ALL the evidence", you know, lines they got FROM advertising reps hiding around online, and that's not even a secret.  These companies are open about spreading their propaganda through "unique channels" like engaging with the youth online.

Sorry, I'm getting off track here.  Back onto my point, when you have the motive, you can predict the result.  I'm rarely surprised these days, once I realized just what motivates a lot of people and institutions.  You want to find someone honest?  Find someone who's got a motive to BE honest.  Find someone who doesn't take donations from corporations.  They are RARE, but they exist.

With that said, survival is also a good motivator, and right now, there are a lot of democrats worried about whether or not they might just be executed right now.  MSNBC had a very VERY late moment of finally acknowledging the death of democracy in our country, long after the experts who'd been warning us on the signs of fascism for years had already fled the country, and they're starting to see just what's at state, such as their own lives, and that seems to push out concerns of funding so more and more are actively calling Trump the dictator he is at this point.

[Dark Jaguar]

Also, it has been like pulling teeth to tug the democratic liberal core over to seeing that... right now there's an actual genocide going on and Israel are the ones doing it.  Even bring it up the very first talking point, like talking to damn parrots is, "Hey, but doesn't Israel have the right to defend itself?"  The answer to that is... "Yes, BUT, that's not what they're doing.  They're committing a genocide.  It has nothing to do with self defense, if it ever did."  It's a core international relationship issue, and when it comes to international politics, they have nothing to do with morality.  They don't, and that's a hard pill to swallow, but it's the practical reality.  ALL international politics are about maintaining power, or gaining power.  That's it.  Morality is the excuse tacked on after the fact.  But internally?  We DO care about morality, and so when republicans who think morality is zero sum find that they agree with liberals who just think that rocking the boat is a very bad idea, you get people actively trying to fight back against THE most exciting mayoral candidate New York has had in many many years.  What ever happened to "vote blue no matter who"?  Well, the reality is... they didn't mean it.  It was a slogan.