Guilty!

[A Black Falcon]

Seriously, like a lot of people I was kind of believing that Trump would never actually be convicted of anything, that despite being extremely guilty he'd get away with it all, if just because of some diehard Trumper making it onto the jury...

But no, it didn't happen.  Donald Trump was convicted on all 34 counts he was charged with.    Sadly these charges won't lead to the very long prison sentence he richly deserves, but he may get a short prison sentence and it sure was richly deserved.  Finally, Trump suffers a real consequence for his actions.

  Wow.  America, and trials by jury, still may survive this test against it...

[Dark Jaguar]

All 34 counts of ONE specific trial, mind you.  It was the weakest of the cases against him, so it's promising when it comes to the other trials.

But, with all that said, he can appeal this.  Thus, he absolutely, as sure as the sun's rising, will appeal it.  It is 100% an absolute of the universe that he will.  And he will never NOT appeal it, until it reaches his Supreme Court.

[Weltall]

The only jury that matters is the voters. The only trial that matters happens in November. If he wins, it all goes away with the rest of everything that makes America better than your average right-leaning gerontocracy. If he loses, there's nothing left but a short, stressful, un-fun life spent in various defendants' chairs, accumulating more convictions until his evil, fat old heart finally has enough and Makes America Great Again for real.

[Dark Jaguar]

I suppose Trump was right about one thing.  We do have a two tiered justice system, it's just that it works in his favor, not against him.

[Dark Jaguar]

Not guilty:


With this new Presidential Immunity ruling, all Presidents are now above the law.  This has now become THE most important issue, and will continue to BE the most important issue, until this ruling is either overturned by a different supreme court, or an amendment is passed to state definitively (again, but in modern language) that the President is NOT above the law.

They got what they wanted.  They caught the car, but like a dog smashing it's head directly in a car that stopped short, they're going to regret the chase.  Biden now enjoys full immunity, and if I thought Joe actually had it in him, I'd say they should be terrified that Biden might throw out the upcoming election results, have Trump executed, and declare himself President for life.  He can now do ALL of those things without any legal consequences.

...In fact, I think Biden SHOULD throw out the upcoming election results if he loses, BECAUSE that would be a horrible violation of the will of the people.  It would be a noble thing to do, to enrage the nation so much it guarantees a bipartisan effort to establish that the President is NOT above the law by whatever means necessary.  Biden will then sign the bill with a smile, the very bill that will send him to prison.

The status quo has just been shredded to pieces.  Solutions going forward will no longer be normal by-the-numbers efforts.  We are living in wild times, and will require wild solutions.  Any attempt for a "normal" solution is doomed to fail in the face of this.  What doesn't kill us has made us stranger.  Our lives, such as they have been, are over.  The sooner we come to accept that, the better.

[A Black Falcon]

On the subject of this case in specific, the crimes mostly occurred before Trump became President and the ones that were after were clearly separated from anything Presidential, he used his personal accounts and such.  The reason for the sentencing delay is because thanks to this decision, the Trump legal team is claiming that some Trump tweets from after he became President should not be allowed as evidence because they are now protected.  I think that's the whole  reason for the delay, if I understand that correctly.  The court will decide on that upcoming.  I am sure that Trump would be convicted with or without that evidence, but I sure hope the conviction holds up, having to redo the whole trial would be unfortunate... but no, the whole verdict has not been invalidated.

[Dark Jaguar]

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation.  Trump will appeal this straight back to the Supreme Court, because if nothing else it delays it, and ANY evidence that was garnered from a "presidential act" will not be allowed.  That appears to have been the ruling, and the INTENT of the ruling at that.

[A Black Falcon]

While this ruling certainly has significant impact on the other three cases, since this was an exclusively personal business case and is a state-level charge, this ruling doesn't invalidate it, no.  The Supreme Court could invent some new ruling which does get him out of the conviction in the future, but this one wasn't it.  It 'only' puts some of the evidence into 'maybe you can't use that' territory.

[Dark Jaguar]

You don't understand, ANYTHING can be registered as "part of an official act" now.  The bar is exceedingly high to pass to prove that something he does isn't an "official act".

ABF, stop being so positive right this instant.  Things are bad.



I went to this lawyer channel to try and get some perspective... now I'm even more worried, and you should be too.  Cut it out.  Your sugar and cherry faith that bad things don't actually happen and that politics is just a sporting event needs to stop now.  Yes, it can happen here.  It can happen here.  It CAN happen here, and for many peoples throughout US history, it DID happen here.

[A Black Falcon]

I'm not sorry to base my opinions on the actual law.  Not one bit.

You don't understand, ANYTHING can be registered as "part of an official act" now.  The bar is exceedingly high to pass to prove that something he does isn't an "official act".

No, not anything.  Acts done before he became President are not an official act, obviously.  And in the New York case, the acts were done before he became President. 

Anyway, Sotomayor's dissent is entirely correct, it is every bit as terrifying a decision as she said.  It's the most anti-American law or regulation maybe in our nation's entire history, since it more than perhaps any other directly goes against the most important core reason for our nation's founding, rule of law and not rule of a king.  It's incredibly dangerous for the future of us having a democracy, there is no question about that.

And given how they are willing to throw out 248 years of precedent, it would not surprise me if in the future the Supreme Court invents some new illegal reason to get Trump off for his New York felony conviction.  But again, this decision does NOT DO THAT.  The charges date to before he was President and did not involve any official acts.  The only case they have right now to overturn the conviction is to say that some of the evidence should have been disallowed because of it dating to after he was President.  That is the only element of this that his legal team mentioned during the trial.  They did not try to say that he was immune from prosecution here during the trial, probably because it mostly predated his Presidency and was clearly personal and not official.