The Pledge of Allegiance

[Sacred Jellybean]

God promised a day when man would bend swords into plow shares , When death and evil will be no more.No other God has ever thought of the entire human race and offerd them a opportunity for world peace. All this Isiah and revelation.

Well, I just made up a god who'll promise anyone a long life of happiness, prosperity, and love. This, along with peace and happiness for all they love, and all their loved ones love, creating a chain reaction of peace and compassion between all humans. So long as they do one thing: eat 3 sunflower seeds while watching Seinfeld on a TV coated in grape jam.

Theoretically, my god's better than yours, because no other god has promised happiness and prosperity as easily as yours.

:shake:

[alien space marine]

I have no idea why I'd compare something invented by people to something invented by people... can you help me here?

prove to me that new isreal was created by people beyond the fact you are a atheist who thinks everyone other then atheists is bull shit!!!

As for sacred jelly bean , True happiness isnt easy to get it is a daily stuggle to maintain but rewarding indeed. As far as I know no other gods promises peace for all mankind and everyone is treated as equals.

Yes, we do have a history of intolerance.And a lot of it is related to religion influencing people into it... and much of the rest is religious influenced people acting on what they consider their religious values...

An ethiopian man was welcome to join the christian congregations becuase he showed interest during the apostles time. As Jesus welcomed everyone jews and non jews.

As for what happen in the U.S has more to do with greed,lust and unjustified hatred ,by individuals who hold the truth hostage for their own personal gain.

I believe there is false hood within these sopposed christian churces, such as the persecution of the jews and the cruisades , sexual abuse ,forced conversion and twisted reasoning as they are the harlot babbylon the great of false religion.

[EdenMaster]

Originally posted by Sacred Jellybean
ASM: Avril Lavigne is a dork! My female friend I are writing a story where we kidnap and torture her.

I may want to read that SJ, I think many people wish for that same scenario.

[alien space marine]

Damn you!

its gonna be a pretty damn cold night from were I am standing.

[A Black Falcon]

prove to me that new isreal was created by people beyond the fact you are a atheist who thinks everyone other then atheists is bull shit!!!

I don't have a clue what you are trying to say here...

An ethiopian man was welcome to join the christian congregations becuase he showed interest during the apostles time. As Jesus welcomed everyone jews and non jews.

Uh, related to what I said how? Is there a connection here?

As for what happen in the U.S has more to do with greed,lust and unjustified hatred ,by individuals who hold the truth hostage for their own personal gain.

I believe there is false hood within these sopposed christian churces, such as the persecution of the jews and the cruisades , sexual abuse ,forced conversion and twisted reasoning as they are the harlot babbylon the great of false religion.

True. But they call themselves christians, and often have had many followers... and a variety of problems keep showing up. Religion doesn't necessarially breed evil all the time, but it SURE creates a place where hatred and intolerance gets a voice and a reason for their actions...

[Darunia]

[QUOTE] prove to me that new isreal was created by people beyond the fact you are a atheist who thinks everyone other then atheists is bull shit!!! [/B]

Israe, who mentioned Israel? And are you trying to say that men didn't creat new Israel...I don't see how that effects anything, but I'm fairly sure the a British mandate founded and established Israel out of Palestine. I must say, ASM, it may just be your bi-lingualism, but your religious debates are, how to put it delicately...fucked up, baseless and random.

[A Black Falcon]

Uh, all of ASM's posts are extremely hard to understand... these are just a little worse than ususal. I mean, he doesn't seem to be on the same subject we are!

[Sacred Jellybean]

Sorry, I just had to. :D

[A Black Falcon]

I hope that that's for ASM...

[alien space marine]

Originally posted by Darunia
[QUOTE] prove to me that new isreal was created by people beyond the fact you are a atheist who thinks everyone other then atheists is bull shit!!!

Israe, who mentioned Israel? And are you trying to say that men didn't creat new Israel...I don't see how that effects anything, but I'm fairly sure the a British mandate founded and established Israel out of Palestine. I must say, ASM, it may just be your bi-lingualism, but your religious debates are, how to put it delicately...fucked up, baseless and random. [/B]

I am glad I got you thinking , As new Isreal is mention in the book revelation as a heavenly kingdom of god not on this earth.

The Isreal of old is no more,the one we have today is no different then Egypt the names the same the people are not.


SJ I love the Panda!Its my favorite animal!
:)

[Sacred Jellybean]

Falcon: it wouldn't apply to anyone else. :)

ASM: They're even better when they're driving go-carts. :D

[alien space marine]

Samurai Pandas!

[A Black Falcon]

Samurai Pandas are awesome! In Warcraft III anyway...

Oh, and SJ, I sure thought so... appropriate. :)

[Darunia]

Pandas make even I, the great Darunia, smile! Three cheers for panda bears!

*Darunia buys all pandas vodka; all-night party at Darunia's night club opened to all pandas. Four days later, Darunia, Gorons and pandas stammer out, drunk and with hot chicks all around them.*

What a party.

[Geno]

Theoretically, my god's better than yours, because no other god has promised happiness and prosperity as easily as yours.

Uh oh, Mormons have a rival. Stay away rom Utah! :p

[Sacred Jellybean]

My room mate's a mormon, and I'll have you know, he finds me quite the charming young man.

[Weltall]

This shit is ten pages long :o

[A Black Falcon]

And most of it is a serious discussion, too...

And ASM, you ignore the point: Your posts make about as much sense as a panda does riding a gokart.

[Weltall]

Is this one of those random off-topic half-pages?

If so, I need to get laid more.

[alien space marine]

introduces avril lavigne to welty ,(he gets laid)

[A Black Falcon]

Have I mentioned that Jesus almost certainly did not look like your avatar? :)

[alien space marine]

nobody knows how he looked like , some even suggest he was black or chinese.(false)

[Geno]

Of course, minorities are going to demand that Jesus be depicted as whatever ethnic group they are. They want to be represented.

[alien space marine]

Why does the colour of one skin matter?
It didnt matter to jesus .

[Darunia]

[QUOTE] Why does the colour of one skin matter?
It didnt matter to jesus .[/Q]

Obviously it did since you insist that he was white! :p

[alien space marine]

I didnt know Jews were african?(sarcaism)

In a way your right jesus isnt white since he isnt human anymore.

[Geno]

I could care less what color Jesus was when he was human.

[Darunia]

...when he was human...what is he now, a guinea pig?

[Weltall]

Originally posted by Darunia
...when he was human...what is he now, a guinea pig?

He's God.

[Geno]

Jesus was human from when He was born to the Virgin Mary up until His crucifiction. When He was resurrected, He was no longer human. He is now the Holy Spirit.

[alien space marine]

He is King of the universe dude! Literaly!

He is a pretty mighty angel , He even confronted the pharasees before they were going to attack a christian congregation. He blinded them , Imagine there faces seeing this guy they thought they killed kick their asses down!

A Guinea pig is what you will become Darunia.

[Darunia]

So Jesus and God are one and the same according to Weltall and Geno...?

[A Black Falcon]

I don't really get it, but Jesus is supposed to both be the son of god and god himself, somehow.

In most Christian faiths, anyway...

[WhiteFleck]

Electrons are both a particle and a wave?

[Geno]

Basically, Jesus is one of God's three forms. Jesus is God's son as well as another entity he takes the form of. Let's just say that Jesus is a chip off the old block, that the apple didn't land far from the tree. In other words, God lives within him. Like father, like son.

And a quick note, I'm not trying to get anyone here to believe any of this, I'm just explaining how the religion works to clear up any confusions. Of course, everytime we explain something, it just creates more confusion. :S

[A Black Falcon]

And a quick note, I'm not trying to get anyone here to believe any of this, I'm just explaining how the religion works to clear up any confusions. Of course, everytime we explain something, it just creates more confusion.

Such as Christian faiths that don't believe in the Trinity?

[N-Man]

Okay come on, this one isn't too complicated. God decided shit wasn't happening the way he wanted it to happen, so he decided to get incarnated into a human being and have a one-on-one talk with mankind. Still, it's not like he's going to stop existing as God while he's down there. Thus, he's at two places at the same time. Well actually three, but the Holy Spirit part is a bit more murky to me so I won't get into that.

Then you have splinter churches that don't believe any of that, and say Jesus was just anointed by God's magical heavenly fingers, ie he was the one God chose to spread his as-mentioned-above-message.

[Dark Jaguar]

It's easy enough. Just take a big pitcher of water (representing the goodness and infinite greatness that is God, all in a pitcher of common tap water), and poor it into three glasses. It's all the same pitcher of water, just divided into three parts. What's so hard to understand about that?

[Sacred Jellybean]

Does that mean that during Jesus's time on Earth, god became slightly less powerful from dividing his divine power, and thus a few sinners got a free ride to heaven because god was too busy playing with Jesus like an action figure to notice their sins?

[N-Man]

HERETIC, BURN HIM

[WhiteFleck]

I think DJ's analogy was one of the most concise ones.

And as far as Jesus goes, he was fully human and fully God. So while he was still God (and God the Father was still 100% God), he was also completely human. All the powers, all the limits. Sorta mindboggling, but so is physics.

And I don't think God could react to things if he knows everything. It would kind of come with being outside of time to know everything at once. Like in that book, Slaugherhouse Five, with the Tralfamadorians. They saw all of time at once, and I'm still really not sure how that all worked out.

I just confused myself.

[Darunia]

(Ugh.) They always go out on a limb, making up shit. Anyone ever see Wallace & Grommit, The Wrong Trousers? These crusading christians remind me of Grommit, at the end, when he's on the train...and he's laying out the tracks as fast as he can, just ahead of the train so it doesn't derail...thats them, making up shit as fast as they can, so they won't lose the argument.

[N-Man]

Am reading volume 2 of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. It appears mankind was actually quite rational prior to the introduction of Christianity, and religion was on its way out in the Empire (albeit not in places where a better system was implemented such as Persia; the Greco-Roman pantheon had always been a bit shaky). The Jewish "way of thought" that placed an enormous amount of faith and zeal in God and ultimate redemption was considered rather bizarre until Christianity spread it across Europe, Africa and the Near East. Pliny and several other wisemen of those times were asking precisely the same of Christian leaders as Darunia, Jellybean, ABF and co. are doing right now: to justify their faith. I'm getting the vibe they didn't get an acceptable answer.

[A Black Falcon]

They got the only answer people like us have ever gotten... persecution of varying levels, depending on when you are talking about...

[Weltall]

Im getting the vibe they didn't get an acceptable answer.

Ah. So when do we get thrown to the lions and impaled in palacial courtyards?

We're the ones being told we're stupid, insane and childish for holding faith. No one's asking you guys to justify your lack of it. This began as a debate on the first amendment and has transformed into the atheistic half of us ridiculing the Christian half, who are doing nothing but explaining why we believe like we do.

If we wanted you to believe in God, we would have to justify it. But we don't have to justify our own beliefs, for we can give the same reasons you give about why you don't. There's no win-loss involved here. There's no way either side will be convinced to see the merits of the other, because the rift in belief is fundamental.

[Darunia]

Ah. So when do we get thrown to the lions and impaled in palacial courtyards?

Once I come to power:D

If we wanted you to believe in God, we would have to justify it. But we don't have to justify our own beliefs, for we can give the same reasons you give about why you don't.

Ahh; Weltall has implemented an escape route, a trap door...rather than actually use facts or evidence (which Christians sorely lack), he claims that he does possess them, but simply doesn't need to use them on us. Fact is, our reasons are self evident everyday. We ask if God is real, where is he? He never shows up. Christianity hinges on blind faith, whether or not you want to admit it. You'll go through life never knowing, meeting or seeing your diety; and then you'll have wasted your brief life in blind servitude to a figment of the mass imagination.

[A Black Falcon]

Ahh; Weltall has implemented an escape route, a trap door...rather than actually use facts or evidence (which Christians sorely lack), he claims that he does possess them, but simply doesn't need to use them on us. Fact is, our reasons are self evident everyday. We ask if God is real, where is he? He never shows up. Christianity hinges on blind faith, whether or not you want to admit it. You'll go through life never knowing, meeting or seeing your diety; and then you'll have wasted your brief life in blind servitude to a figment of the mass imagination.

Well yeah... when proof isn't forthcoming, beligerence, unwavering support for things that cannot be proven by saying that they are proven by things that aren't proof, and denial are the only real responses...

[Geno]

I honestly can't see how questioning aspects of the Christian faith makes the atheist side of the argument any better. I don't know if everything the Bible says is true or not, but neither do you. It's you who's claiming that your beliefs are factual. We can't see God, but does that mean He doesn't exist? Because He's always hiding? Osama bin Laden is always hiding, but people believe he exists. Because they've seen him on television? Yup, shame we didn't have television back in early AD years. I'm not saying that God exists; I'm just saying it's a possibility. I have yet to see any convincing proof that He doesn't exist. "We haven't seen Him" won't cut it either. We may not have the kind of proof you want that He exists, but your nonexistant proof hasn't been any more convincing to me.

[A Black Falcon]

Of course we can't prove he doesn't exist... as I've said many times this question is by its nature not one that is really answerable to the satisfaction of everyone... you interpret lack of proof as showing he does exist and we interpret as showing that he doesn't...

[Darunia]

We can't see God, but does that mean He doesn't exist? Because He's always hiding? Osama bin Laden is always hiding, but people believe he exists. Because they've seen him on television?

Bad logic. I can believ Osama is real not because he's on TV, but because he's the head of an a very tangible organization, has made live threads to our nation, and voiced himself. His existence is evident, as it effects us in an undeniable way. Further, I find it easier to believe that that a middle-aged terrorist exists in hiding than I do a timeless, imnipotent diety. Come on now.