Xbox Tiny Keyboard: why?!

[Dark Jaguar]

So apparently the 360 is getting a tiny keyboard that plugs into the bottom of the controller.

WHYYYYYY?!

Now USB support for occasional use in like an MMO or quick typing info for signing up I can see, but this is apparently for online chatting.

Major problem here, it's WORSE than what the system is already capable of. It COMES WITH A HEADSET, and you can talk with people all you want via live with an actual VOICE (though for some reason, very annoyingly, they took out the voice filter, I mean sheesh all they needed to do was get rid of the robot voice). Why would anyone willingly use a keyboard instead of talk? I mean, aside from that mute kid over there?

[Paco]

They're adding MSN messenger to Live with the spring update.

[Dark Jaguar]

Well that seems pointless... Again, voice chat is vastly superior.

Really for me this just feeds into that whole idiocy that is "text messaging on a cell phone".

[A Black Falcon]

Microsoft is doing a lot of pointless things lately, I think...

[Paco]

It means you'll be able to access all your messenger friends regardless of what platform they're on. I don't see what's pointless about that seeing as how there are millions of people who use messenger. It's also not as if Microsoft is taking voice chat away from you, they're just adding another way to communicate.

Spin it as you want.

[lazyfatbum]

MSN also has voice chat, so why not just allow people to connect to their MSN accounts and use... voice chat?

[Dark Jaguar]

It means you'll be able to access all your messenger friends regardless of what platform they're on. I don't see what's pointless about that seeing as how there are millions of people who use messenger. It's also not as if Microsoft is taking voice chat away from you, they're just adding another way to communicate.

Spin it as you want.

It just seems totally pointless, MS drone.

[Paco]

I'd be willing to bet there are more people with a keyboard than with a mic. This way everyone with MSN messenger can "jump in."

It would seem pointless to somebody so clueless.

[Dark Jaguar]

Um... but they have SPEAKERS don't they?

CHECK and MATE.

[A Black Falcon]

But they lost the speaker control knob and they were off the last time they worked... :(

[Dark Jaguar]

Well then clearly that means STRANGERS need to buy a keyboard so they can still talk to them.

Yeah, this is kinda pointless.

Yes it's a "choice" but in all honesty I think MS should refocus their efforts on things we can actually use. Here's a thought: a firmware update to use a USB keyboard in the dashboard.

[lazyfatbum]

aww snap

It looks to me like another 'Oh look we can squeeze another peripheral in, and make it proprietary, i mean 'unique'."

1.) Make bad decisions

2.) Screw over and alienate your customers

3.) ??????

4.) PROFIT!!!

[Dark Jaguar]

Swell, all in all MS has been doing things right. This keyboard is just a stupid add-on, not anything that hurts me other than insulting my intelligence.

Nintendo on the other hand has dedicated teams to developing "Wii Vote" instead of a better online network.

[A Black Falcon]

It looks to me like another 'Oh look we can squeeze another peripheral in, and make it proprietary, i mean 'unique'."

1.) Make bad decisions

2.) Screw over and alienate your customers

3.) ??????

4.) PROFIT!!!

I think they see the "PROFIT" line and then forget all of the lines above that... including the one that says "or if it backfires things could get worse for you"...

... okay, this won't cause that. But the reaction to the X360 Elite? That might, eventually, if prices don't come down anytime soon.

[Paco]

Perhaps they can't turn on the speakers for a variety of reasons- such as being at work, or in a computer library, or...it could be anything. In the end, you aren't being forced to buy it so I'm not sure why you're acting like such a dumbass on the subject.

[A Black Falcon]

... who would be using an X360 at work or at the library? Wait, you mean people on X360s talking to people on PCs who can't turn on their speakers? Talk about niche audiences...

[Dark Jaguar]

Look we all know you work in one of those "troll farms" where people make fake personas on message boards and then sell various company lines, and we're okay with that, but seriously, this is a pretty stupid addon.

No, I don't have to buy it, I'm explaining why here. I'm not just going to say "well I disagree" with every single product put to market. If something just seems really stupid, like that "heart beat detecter" security system they are putting in cars, I call them out on it.

It "could be anything" eh? And again, you ignore the point, you are basically saying the reason people should buy this device is so that someone who doesn't own a pair of headsets and spends more time at work instant messaging than WORKING doesn't have to "splurge". This is not something useful to the buyer so much as random people online on the off chance that one of them can't hear you. And, oh yes, why not just let them use a USB keyboard they likely already own in those cases where it actually is, for whatever reason, needed? This thing is hardly actually practicle. You can't type and use any buttons at the same time. Heck, you have to do the "hunt and peck" all over again because I sure as heck know my thumbs are only trained to hit the space bar.

That's just not how a sensible person rolls.

Again, MS isn't "evil" for making this. People can buy it if they want, I'm just calling the device stupid.

[Paco]

... who would be using an X360 at work or at the library? Wait, you mean people on X360s talking to people on PCs who can't turn on their speakers? Talk about niche audiences...

It was just an example. There are other reasons such as I don't want to actually speak to every person I message. You know, like when you have multiple messenger windows open and you're carrying on sparse conversations...

Also, don't forget that the 360 only has one-on-one voice chat at this point so this will allow for multiple simultaneous contacts. (I don't know why MS axed party chat from Live)

DJ, you are writing off its utility without actually thinking it through. Don't call me a troll because I'm calling you out on being narrow-minded.

I'll agree that USB keyboard support would have been a much more welcome announcement.

I don't work for anyone. I just can't stand to see people going on and on about something without being sensible about it.

[A Black Falcon]

I'll agree that USB keyboard support would have been a much more welcome announcement.

If it was a full-sized keyboard, at least it would have uses beyond just IM... but mini-sized? Why?

[Paco]

If it was a full-sized keyboard, at least it would have uses beyond just IM... but mini-sized? Why?

In case you weren't aware, it snaps on to the controller. I'm just guessing that Microsoft doesn't want you to have to put down the controller.

Microsoft has been pretty stern on not wanting to turn the 360 in to a computer (they say that, but...). They have most certainly said they don't want a keyboard or mouse for gameplay on the 360.

[A Black Falcon]

If so, then they shouldn't release this... this does make it more of a computer, after all.

[Paco]

If so, then they shouldn't release this... this does make it more of a computer, after all.

but we already established it's just another way to communicate. Making games that support standard kb+m would be more like a computer, and I already told you they don't want to go that route.

[A Black Falcon]

That's kind of silly though, because the biggest genre on the X360 is FPSes, and those are all better with keyboard and mouse...

[Paco]

That's kind of silly though, because the biggest genre on the X360 is FPSes, and those are all better with keyboard and mouse...

Not if you develop them with a controller in mind.

Thus far, I've played Halo, Halo 2, Timeshift, Riddick, Half-Life 2, Pariah, Killzone, Red Faction, Doom 3, Quake 3, Metroid Prime, and a number of other FPS on consoles and I can say I had more than an adequate experience handling them. The truth is the game can be tweaked to suite a controllers function, and it works just fine. I'm not going to debate which is better because that's more about preference than anything. I prefer the controller, thanks.

If Microsoft allowed kb+m on the 360 then how would that differentiate the experience from their Windows gaming? Their trying to create more branches of business, not consolidate them.

[A Black Falcon]

Not if you develop them with a controller in mind.

Even with autoaim and whatnot, sorry, a good PC FPS player will win. Shadowrun tries to make up for it by putting in a huge amount of aim uncertainty, so you can't hit what you're aiming at even with a mouse, but even there I'm sure that in the end the PC players (whichever fools actually pay the $50 to get the "privilege" of being allowed to play against console players) will be better. There is no way to argue against the fact that keyboard and mouse is a much better, much more accurate control method for games of this type. Prefer gamepads all you want, you'll just lose more if you play against any competent PC FPS player (which is not me, but that's not the point). :)

... on second thought, go ahead! If there are any more multi-system FPS games, the PC players will thank you for it... :D

If Microsoft allowed kb+m on the 360 then how would that differentiate the experience from their Windows gaming? Their trying to create more branches of business, not consolidate them.

The 360 controller works on PCs, you know...

[Paco]

Even with autoaim and whatnot, sorry, a good PC FPS player will win. Shadowrun tries to make up for it by putting in a huge amount of aim uncertainty, so you can't hit what you're aiming at even with a mouse, but even there I'm sure that in the end the PC players (whichever fools actually pay the $50 to get the "privilege" of being allowed to play against console players) will be better. There is no way to argue against the fact that keyboard and mouse is a much better, much more accurate control method for games of this type. Prefer gamepads all you want, you'll just lose more if you play against any competent PC FPS player (which is not me, but that's not the point). :)

... on second thought, go ahead! If there are any more multi-system FPS games, the PC players will thank you for it... :D



The 360 controller works on PCs, you know...

Exactly, which is why they don't have the two playing together with the exception of Shadowrun. Allowing kb+m support would fuck all that up.

I wouldn't play a FPS with the 360 pad on a PC because I would get slaughtered as you stated. That's why Microsoft is, for the most part, keeping the two parties seperated. It seems you already know the deal with Shadowrun.

I'll just stick to the consoles and be on the same playing field everyone else is...with a controller. :)

EDIT: BTW, I'm not arguing which setup allows for more accuracy. It's kb+m, no contest. I will say that I find far more value in being able to sit down on the floor in my living room and play on a tv. That's what I was getting at with the whole preference thing. Play how you like, and I'll play how I like. This debate leads to nowhere but a dead end. If you want to start arguing the mini-kb again, I'll be waiting.

[A Black Falcon]

PC Live/Shadowrun stuff... I've said quite a bit about both topics already in this thread:
http://www.tcforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4389

I will say that I find far more value in being able to sit down on the floor in my living room and play on a tv. That's what I was getting at with the whole preference thing. Play how you like, and I'll play how I like.

Sitting on the floor? You don't have a chair or couch? :)

Anyway, both ways are good.

[Paco]

PC Live/Shadowrun stuff... I've said quite a bit about both topics already in this thread:
http://www.tcforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4389



Sitting on the floor? You don't have a chair or couch? :)

Anyway, both ways are good.

I do, but I prefer the floor. I'm not sure why...even when I'm watching tv I'll sit on the floor and lean against the couch. IDK.

[Dark Jaguar]

Okay apparently Mad Catz has an even WORSE idea than this for the PS3.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/04/24/you-...-keyboard/

Ergonomic my arse! At least your thumbs can reach the keys on the 360 version. This is on the TOP of the controller! I mean, what's the point?

[A Black Falcon]

What can you expect from third-party hardware manufacturers...

[lazyfatbum]

paco/ The mini keyboard is stupid, and you know it. It makes the otherwise sleek 360 controller in to the Jaguar pad. It's retarded. Everyone thinks it's retarded. Cope. A seperate, full sized, wireless keyboard (perhaps with a trackball or fingerpad) for 30/50 bucks would be awesome. But that, my young troll, is not - and no matter how much parading, or jumping up and down you do will change that fact. if you like it (which i'm sure you do) great. I and other people here think it sucks on toast, licks donut holes, blows ass and belongs on the Short Bus.

Along with all the people using MSN at the library.

Ass hat.

[Paco]

lazy, you're stupid. There, I said it. If they made a stand-alone keyboard then that would require somebody to alternate between devices. All you have to do now is adjust your thumbs. The only reason you don't like it is because it's NOT from Nintendo.

I have no intention to buy the mini-keyboard because I don't use messenger as it is.

Go waggle or something.

lamer.

[Bo Jackson]

remember that?

[lazyfatbum]

The only reason you don't like it is because it's NOT from Nintendo.

Actually I dont like it because it's retarded.

Go waggle or something.

lamer.

Wow, did that just happen? Since when did it turn 1996? Or... wait, is.... Paco.... are you coming on to me?

[Paco]

Actually I dont like it because it's retarded.



Wow, did that just happen? Since when did it turn 1996? Or... wait, is.... Paco.... are you coming on to me?

I see you have a link there, but I'm not going to click it because it's no doubt some desperate rant or an irrelevant photoshop good for nothing more than a cheap (very cheap, really you could do better) laugh. Until you come up with a good reason to not like the mini-kb, or come up with a better means to use the messenger, you're a troll. I've already pointed out how your idea of a stand-alone keyboard is flawed, but in case you forgot it's because the user would have to alternate between the two devices. That's incredibly stupid seeing as how messenging should be nothing more than a secondary use to gaming...in other words, don't put down the controller.

End of your rope? Done trolling?

I can't wait to see how far you drag this out. What humorless, convoluted, and disguised insults do you have in store? Let me try to work up the state of mind to give a damn, and then we can continue...

[Bo Jackson]

I can't imagine that using a mini-keyboard controller combo would be easier than switching between a full-sized kb and a gamepad. I had to do that with PSO on the DC, and it wasn't a hassle. If they were combined then I'd still have to set the keyboard on my lap and then switch back to holding it normally. And the tiny keys would have made it more difficult to type. Now, a really small kb, pda-style, may have worked better. But with this you have the worst of both worlds: you have to set it on your lap/table and it's too small to type as fast as on a normal-sized kb.

[lazyfatbum]

Dont try Bo, Paco has to give oral to everything MS does otherwise he doesn't get paid. :D

Apparently he's never played PSO but yeah switching isn't an issue. Especially since most guys can type with one hand quite efficiently. Can you imagine the DC pad with a mini keyboard attached to it? Like steering a boat.

[Paco]

I can't imagine that using a mini-keyboard controller combo would be easier than switching between a full-sized kb and a gamepad. I had to do that with PSO on the DC, and it wasn't a hassle. If they were combined then I'd still have to set the keyboard on my lap and then switch back to holding it normally. And the tiny keys would have made it more difficult to type. Now, a really small kb, pda-style, may have worked better. But with this you have the worst of both worlds: you have to set it on your lap/table and it's too small to type as fast as on a normal-sized kb.

You obviously haven't seen it. It fits on to the controller so all you have to do adjust your thumbs from the analog to the keys. It wouldn't do you any good setting it on your lap because you couldn't type on it like a standard key-board anyway. It's obviously designed for your thumbs.

http://www.gamer.nl/screenshot/2568/56557
http://www.gamer.nl/screenshot/2568/56556
http://www.gamer.nl/screenshot/2568/56554

[lazyfatbum]

Paco in case you're curious, I just did a quick search on google for 'xbox 360 mini keyboard' and saw the pics of it (its actually bigger than the Jaguar pad lmao) and everyone has the same things to say: Looks uncomfortable, I hope i dont press the keys on accident while playing, why did they do this instead of mouse and full keyboard support? why aren't they using the voice recognition from Vista? etc. And these are all 360 owners and fans asking these questions.

My favorite one (concerning the update and reveal of the minikeyboard) was "Yeah, great update. I still cant rewind my fucking audio."

[Bo Jackson]

Ok, the one I saw looked different. That might work, though it looks pretty low. Would have made more sense to keep the size of the kb but to put it between the two sides of the controller, like that gc one.

[lazyfatbum]

haha... you're kidding, right? Playing on that would be like jerking off a horse with your wrists. Think about it.

Oh it apparently has a mic as well, and it lights up. So dont expect to pick thing up for under 40 bucks. Why on god's green earth we cant just have a full sized wireless keyboard on our coffee tables to chat up the people we kill/love is beyond me. But the minikb is 'better than nothing'.

And the 360 doesn't have a web browser? How does that make sense?

[Bo Jackson]

How would that be like jerking off a h--....

you know what, I don't think I actually want to know the answer to that question!

[Paco]

haha... you're kidding, right? Playing on that would be like jerking off a horse with your wrists. Think about it.

Oh it apparently has a mic as well, and it lights up. So dont expect to pick thing up for under 40 bucks. Why on god's green earth we cant just have a full sized wireless keyboard on our coffee tables to chat up the people we kill/love is beyond me. But the minikb is 'better than nothing'.

And the 360 doesn't have a web browser? How does that make sense?

It's not for playing, it's for chatting. The video demonstration they did with it made it seem like reaching the buttons with your thumbs was very accessible. It will vary depending on hand size, of course. It looks like a bigger Blackberry keyboard...and those are nice.

Probably because MS wants to keep the reigns on you, keep you in their network, buying stuff in their store. They also mentioned something along the lines of "there are certain things that a PC is better suited for, and browsing the internet is one of them." Something to that effect.

I won't claim to know Microsoft's motivations, but I'll take a guess at them anyway. They want to keep you focused on the games, and the messenger really is just a side-feature not meant to be intrusive, so I imagine their line of thought went something along the lines of not wanting to hassle the gamer with having to switch between their controller or keyboard. Now you have access to both and it requires little more than adjusting your wrists. You can still navigate your dashboard, type messages, hop back in your game, chat some more...the controller never leaves your hand. I don't see how anyone can see this as a bad thing.

[Paco]

Paco in case you're curious, I just did a quick search on google for 'xbox 360 mini keyboard' and saw the pics of it (its actually bigger than the Jaguar pad lmao) and everyone has the same things to say: Looks uncomfortable, I hope i dont press the keys on accident while playing, why did they do this instead of mouse and full keyboard support? why aren't they using the voice recognition from Vista? etc. And these are all 360 owners and fans asking these questions.

My favorite one (concerning the update and reveal of the minikeyboard) was "Yeah, great update. I still cant rewind my fucking audio."

Have you ever held a 360 controller? They're quite small, and much better designed than a jaguar pad. There is a video demonstration around somewhere, with two guys and a girl. The girl is holding the controller with the kb snapped on and says it's comfortable. I'll search for it and post it for you.

That's quite irrelevant. Whoever said that is obviously nitpicking. However, it's their right to.

[Paco]

Couldn't find the video...I'll keep looking, but I did find a picture with someone with the Controller+kb in hand...

http://games.gearlive.com/playfeed/artic...-04092349/

[Sacred Jellybean]

I can see benefits and drawbacks to this. It's nice to type without putting down the controller, but honestly, I'd prefer to switch, just so I could type on a normal keyboard. I'm a quick typist, so having to adapt to another keyboard, one which I only type with my thumbs no less, means a longer delay before getting back to the game. I don't like devices that require you to press small letter keys. I prefer a number pad, like cell phones contain, that have a schema for typing quickly by guessing the word you mean to type (which might sound iffy, but works well if implemented correctly).

Of course, I don't own an X-Box 360, nor use IM programs very often, so this doesn't really affect me.

That GC keyboard is a monstrosity, btw.

[A Black Falcon]

Wow, that's small... why not just go all the way and use a cellphone style "flip through the letters" system? Either way it's going to uncomfortable...

I know some little handheld organizer things have tiny keyboards, but nobody likes them.

[lazyfatbum]

It's not for playing, it's for chatting. The video demonstration they did with it made it seem like reaching the buttons with your thumbs was very accessible. It will vary depending on hand size, of course. It looks like a bigger Blackberry keyboard...and those are nice.

No they're not wtf ;D And as far as the horse masturbation I was refering to the GC keyboard.

Probably because MS wants to keep the reigns on you, keep you in their network, buying stuff in their store. They also mentioned something along the lines of "there are certain things that a PC is better suited for, and browsing the internet is one of them." Something to that effect.

Okay, wait... *gag*

I won't claim to know Microsoft's motivations, but I'll take a guess at them anyway. They want to keep you focused on the games, and the messenger really is just a side-feature not meant to be intrusive, so I imagine their line of thought went something along the lines of not wanting to hassle the gamer with having to switch between their controller or keyboard. Now you have access to both and it requires little more than adjusting your wrists. You can still navigate your dashboard, type messages, hop back in your game, chat some more...the controller never leaves your hand. I don't see how anyone can see this as a bad thing.

Well shit the bed Paco. MICROSOFT who practically INVENTED the web browser, thinks it doesnt belong on a video game system because its better suited for PC's. But a peripheral for the sole purpose of communicating to people on their PC's over the 360's network is... ok?

*huck*

*GROPH*

*HUUURRKK*

*HROLPHHHH*

*bbpblbllhhhaaAAAGGHHHARG*

There, I just threw up my own comprehension and personal identity. Your corporate lingo reasoning has caused my body to violently reject my own brain. You're worse than Perrin Kaplan with a 2 foot leather dick.

[Paco]

Well shit the bed Paco. MICROSOFT who practically INVENTED the web browser, thinks it doesnt belong on a video game system because its better suited for PC's. But a peripheral for the sole purpose of communicating to people on their PC's over the 360's network is... ok?

*huck*

*GROPH*

*HUUURRKK*

*HROLPHHHH*

*bbpblbllhhhaaAAAGGHHHARG*

There, I just threw up my own comprehension and personal identity. Your corporate lingo reasoning has caused my body to violently reject my own brain. You're worse than Perrin Kaplan with a 2 foot leather dick.

It's another way of Microsoft wanting you to invest in their other products. If they give you PC functionallity on a console then how are they going to sell you their operating system? If they give you a web browser on the 360 then what keeps you from buying media from other venues?

The mini-kb isn't just for communicating with people on their PC's. You can use messenger on your PC, 360, and cellphone...so you'll be able to communicate with any of those people no matter their network. That's not the point of it though; the point is being able to chat with a number of people at the same time, something that's not currently available on the 360 (or any other console for that matter).

Your short-sightedness is dumbfounding at times. Your ability to spin things would be impressive if it weren't for the fact they're usually poorly directed and end up nowhere much like this post of yours. Really, you could try harder, but then again I think how you'll never even own a 360 and you really have no vested interest in this product whatsoever. Basically you're trolling, and very desperately reaching.

[DMiller]

Well shit the bed Paco. MICROSOFT who practically INVENTED the web browser

Microsoft didn't invent the graphical web browser. NCSA invented Mosaic at the University of Illinois. I passed the plaque about it all the time while I was in school. Check out the About Internet Explorer... option and it will say Based on NCSA Mosaic.