31st March 2003, 10:45 PM
(This post was last modified: 31st March 2003, 11:14 PM by Dark Jaguar.)
N_A should probably stay out of this.
*ABF, please read the whole thing. You won't get the point I'm trying to make unless you do. You assumed I was saying one thing when I wasn't.*
Again ABF, what makes you think there would be such a smaller number? Again, you miss out on the basic human nature to rebel and WANT to be different. There is also the basic human nature to fall in line and want to be accepted. Strange how both exist in the same mind eh? You seem to assume a hatred here (where actually it seems only two here hate them, and that's not totally confirmed), when in fact such a statement says a lot about yourself. Why is it that saying it's choice suddenly means there's hate mongering? When did THAT happen?
Look at all the numbers of people with piercings and tattoos. They outnumber gays (by the way, lesbian is just a gender limited version of the word gay, why is it always tacked on? That's like saying "I like crackers and ritz crackers") by millions likely, in America alone. Now then, why would ANYONE get pierced or tatooed when people have a huge stigma against it and everyone tells them it's bad and such? (Well, not as much lately...) Because, it's FUN to rebel against the norm! Now then, if rebellion alone can account for such a massive number of people with the exact same idea of how to rebel, don't you think a smaller population might also have a similar explanation? I'm not saying that's the ONLY explanation, but really, genetics doesn't make sense.
Also, I must say you really don't seem to know animals very well... They are, after all, animals. Look, survival of the fittest alone prooves that animals can't have a "gay gene" either. Any animal that ONLY tries to copulate with same gender animals will die and not pass on that gene. It's VERY simple really. Any time that gene showed up, it would immediatly go away in ONE generation. There's no social repression to explain away that like you might with humans. There's no "represing true sexual desires" in animals, so they wouldn't just marry an opposing gender animal because it's what animal society wants. How on earth would that gene survive? I tell you it's just not a possibility. Current social climate has no effect on the laws of nature. Your opinion means nothing to this. This is cold hard reality. A gay gene can't physically exist. Asexual beings who might actually be able to pass it down don't have sexual desires at all, so no gay gene could exist in them either.
*ABF, start reading right here. This is probably the point where you stopped reading last time. This is where I acknowledge the act exists. Really, your bias shows through when you equate me saying there can't be a gay animal gene with animals don't ever do homosexual acts.*
Now then, you want to know why some animals get all homosexual on us? They ARE animals you know. They feel an urge and act on it. I used to have a cat who in fact was incredibly.... bothered.... on a daily basis. He would always want to go outside, and it didn't help that cats were always rolling around outside our apartment. Eventually, he gave up trying to escape, and then he started messing with our other male cat. My point is this. At first, he wanted one thing, then eventually he just gave up and said "I gotta satisfy my animalistic urges, well, this cat isn't as strong as me, just wait until it drops the soap and... *insert famous line from TC story time here*". Eventually we had to get rid of that cat (at the time, my mom was against neutering, not any more).
Anyway, to say that animals doing homosexual acts is a sign there must be a gay gene is about as frought with bad logic as saying a dog humping a leg is a sign there must be a.... um, "make love to human legs" gene.
Oh, and by the way, a singular gene is likely just not enough to trigger such a massive wave of things. While it may very well be that attraction to both sexes is programmed into our brains and all it takes is a single variable, stored on one gene likely to switch it from 0 "male" (assuming we are talking of a female here) to 1 "female", I am willing to bet that such a variable is much more easily just read in from the presence of a Y chromosome.
Anyway, it just doesn't make logical sense at ALL for animals to have a gay gene (it just is totally improbable, completely and totally improbable, and if something is improbable enough, you are at the point where impossible is a good word to substitute because it won't happen, ever, like a mini black hole exploding right in your face) since it would just be weeded out. It DOES make sense though for them to just act on their urges and do what they need to do.
I will post one last example here. There are certain species of birds where females are getting increasingly rare during mating season. However, the males, in desperation, often will find dead females and just vent off their hormones in a pretty disturbing act. They spent the whole night searching for a living one, but just gave up. As for ones who don't try, laziness, pure laziness. Some creatures are just too lazy to properly live their lives. An example of this? Cats. Given the oppertunity, they would much rather eat straight from a bowl of dried food than actually do what's instinctual and hunt down the mouse running around over there. In fact, often times my cats will eat and THEN just kill the little creature, and then put it away and eat some more dried food.
*ABF, please read the whole thing. You won't get the point I'm trying to make unless you do. You assumed I was saying one thing when I wasn't.*
Again ABF, what makes you think there would be such a smaller number? Again, you miss out on the basic human nature to rebel and WANT to be different. There is also the basic human nature to fall in line and want to be accepted. Strange how both exist in the same mind eh? You seem to assume a hatred here (where actually it seems only two here hate them, and that's not totally confirmed), when in fact such a statement says a lot about yourself. Why is it that saying it's choice suddenly means there's hate mongering? When did THAT happen?
Look at all the numbers of people with piercings and tattoos. They outnumber gays (by the way, lesbian is just a gender limited version of the word gay, why is it always tacked on? That's like saying "I like crackers and ritz crackers") by millions likely, in America alone. Now then, why would ANYONE get pierced or tatooed when people have a huge stigma against it and everyone tells them it's bad and such? (Well, not as much lately...) Because, it's FUN to rebel against the norm! Now then, if rebellion alone can account for such a massive number of people with the exact same idea of how to rebel, don't you think a smaller population might also have a similar explanation? I'm not saying that's the ONLY explanation, but really, genetics doesn't make sense.
Also, I must say you really don't seem to know animals very well... They are, after all, animals. Look, survival of the fittest alone prooves that animals can't have a "gay gene" either. Any animal that ONLY tries to copulate with same gender animals will die and not pass on that gene. It's VERY simple really. Any time that gene showed up, it would immediatly go away in ONE generation. There's no social repression to explain away that like you might with humans. There's no "represing true sexual desires" in animals, so they wouldn't just marry an opposing gender animal because it's what animal society wants. How on earth would that gene survive? I tell you it's just not a possibility. Current social climate has no effect on the laws of nature. Your opinion means nothing to this. This is cold hard reality. A gay gene can't physically exist. Asexual beings who might actually be able to pass it down don't have sexual desires at all, so no gay gene could exist in them either.
*ABF, start reading right here. This is probably the point where you stopped reading last time. This is where I acknowledge the act exists. Really, your bias shows through when you equate me saying there can't be a gay animal gene with animals don't ever do homosexual acts.*
Now then, you want to know why some animals get all homosexual on us? They ARE animals you know. They feel an urge and act on it. I used to have a cat who in fact was incredibly.... bothered.... on a daily basis. He would always want to go outside, and it didn't help that cats were always rolling around outside our apartment. Eventually, he gave up trying to escape, and then he started messing with our other male cat. My point is this. At first, he wanted one thing, then eventually he just gave up and said "I gotta satisfy my animalistic urges, well, this cat isn't as strong as me, just wait until it drops the soap and... *insert famous line from TC story time here*". Eventually we had to get rid of that cat (at the time, my mom was against neutering, not any more).
Anyway, to say that animals doing homosexual acts is a sign there must be a gay gene is about as frought with bad logic as saying a dog humping a leg is a sign there must be a.... um, "make love to human legs" gene.
Oh, and by the way, a singular gene is likely just not enough to trigger such a massive wave of things. While it may very well be that attraction to both sexes is programmed into our brains and all it takes is a single variable, stored on one gene likely to switch it from 0 "male" (assuming we are talking of a female here) to 1 "female", I am willing to bet that such a variable is much more easily just read in from the presence of a Y chromosome.
Anyway, it just doesn't make logical sense at ALL for animals to have a gay gene (it just is totally improbable, completely and totally improbable, and if something is improbable enough, you are at the point where impossible is a good word to substitute because it won't happen, ever, like a mini black hole exploding right in your face) since it would just be weeded out. It DOES make sense though for them to just act on their urges and do what they need to do.
I will post one last example here. There are certain species of birds where females are getting increasingly rare during mating season. However, the males, in desperation, often will find dead females and just vent off their hormones in a pretty disturbing act. They spent the whole night searching for a living one, but just gave up. As for ones who don't try, laziness, pure laziness. Some creatures are just too lazy to properly live their lives. An example of this? Cats. Given the oppertunity, they would much rather eat straight from a bowl of dried food than actually do what's instinctual and hunt down the mouse running around over there. In fact, often times my cats will eat and THEN just kill the little creature, and then put it away and eat some more dried food.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)