3rd August 2005, 10:06 PM
Well, the game play would all be the same as a Zelda game. To get from A to B you need a tool, to get the tool you have to go from A to C and then to B to accomplish the main goal. Lather, rinse, repeat. All the while making it more complicated as you progress so that the tool needed might be information from a particular person, an item or a series of events that need to take place before you can approach the B destination. Essentially all you're doing is saying go here, but there's a road block or two so find away around it and hopefully that way around it will induce fun and interesting mechanics that give the gameplayer entertainment instead of pissing them off with another side quest before they can move forward.
Other than that, Zelda is exactly like Mario or Metroid or Resident Evil or any other character driven role playing game in that the game mechanics rely heavily on your sense of exploration and you're willingness to confront danger or the unknown. How awesome is it to explore a dense forest for a key that opens a cave on the beach. Townspeople tell you the cave was once open and the roars of a monster could be heard and that the cave was sealed to protect the town. And here you go Mr. Fancy-Pants opening the cave... right when you walk in you're presented with a labyrinth that has no logical order and is filled with traps and enemies. Your entire progress could be halted for days (real days) because of a puzzle or a mini boss that seems impossible... or it could be a walk in the park. You wont know until you're done with the dungeon. And then you're reward, not only do you get this cool new gadget that allows you use a new ability that makes killing enemies or traversing harsh elements easier - you recieve an iconic gem that is proudly displayed on your menu showing you that you're one step closer to your ultimate goal.
The design is brilliant and Zelda has ALWAYS done it the best hands down, no one can argue that point but it doesn't stop companies like Capcom and Square from trying and usually providing something that's almost to Zelda's level (except the X series and the online FF krap).
But on to DJ's ideas I think in my opinion the whole sense of "magic" is extremely hard to do with any realistic sense of "this is actually happening". When a Black Mage casts Lightening 4 on a level 88 Mindflare and watches him turn to squid barbeque you get a sense of great accomplishment. Not only did you work hard for your Mage to acquire that ability but you timed it right AND you did your homework enough to know that Lightening elementals kill Mindflare's dead very quickly. But the entire sense of realism isn't there. Smacking him with a sword; real. Throwing a stone at him, real. But no video game or film (except LotR) had produced an incarnation of it where one can fully say "yes this is happening, my suspension of disbelief tells me that this person is creating wind, fire, etc from his fingertips." It's just hard to do.
Ryan's RPG has an interesting take on it that he told me about where it binds a more realistic view in to magic use but nothing compares to best book in the world on magic use. The Bible. Not only does it depict human beings using elementals and magic but it goes in to detail of how it was done, how a person can create real magic but then their body is worn and frail or at the very least weaker and that this magic is not there's. It's God's, and God is allowing them to use it because God is using them to perform his goals. As long as you believe in atleast some sense of God (even the less spiritual scientific method of unknown energies) then it becomes completely plausible and defined to a point that everyone can grasp and understand.
Taking that view, I think it's safe to say that the realistic depiction of magic use has a far greater impact when you understand the character that's using it and how they're doing it. Gandelf's staff has a crystal in it which he can focus his powers in to create grand effects - a real life white mage. But the elves can channel it out of sheer will. She closes her eyes, almost praying and the small brook becomes a thousand ton tidal wave with the characteristic look and sound of giant horses charging in to her enemies. It's real, it's actually happening because it's based in reality and it has some feasible ground (the water is already there, she's amplifying it with the idea of charging horses).
When it becomes stupid is when too many people can use it and have no basis of it's use. If some dude in jeans and a t-shirt summons Ifrit the Titan of Fire to demolish an army we're going to call shenanigans and throw a bullshit flag. He better atleast break a sweat and have some veins popping out of his forehead to give us an idea of the mental stress it requires to summon a demi-God. It's more entertaining and it basis the ridiculous idea of creating and forming elemental magic (or any applicable magic) from your fingers. You need to be wise, educated, 'show the character' and help us believe what's happening is actually happening. You do that and you say Wow instead of yawn and unfortunately there isn't a single video game on earth that ever made that connection except maybe *MAYBE* certain games like Silent Hill and the like who give us a realistic depiction of black magic and black arts to the point of it making a connection and being believable (for the story and the gameplayer)
phew wtf was my point again Oh, if you wanted to throw people in to an alternate universe that is unlike what they're used to that's one thing. But what if that alternate universe is ours? as long as it's vastly different from they're used to in a game series the ideal holds the same amount of water. But then just for the sake of tying the series together you can take this reality (our current world) and begin to transform it in to what people are used to - a demented transmogrification of what we know to be real in to something we know is unreal is a fantastic element in story telling and it always works because you're telling people that it exists for real. That building is the Sears Tower in the real world but if you put on these interdimensional goggles you'll see that it's also Lucifer's Keep, the exact location where he was cast down by Michael and God. But you can only see it with these goggles. You're instantly put in a mode of "yeah I can grasp that" and your interest is atleast some what turned on and you're ready for the rest of the story because it began based in reality.
Michael Crichton among a thousand other authors makes a very good living doing that and it's usually the best way to induce interest in your sci-fi or your fantasy world. My favorite part of the Neverending Story is when Atrayu talks directly to the boy reading the book in the real world. That scene always grabs me and I always believe it. Zelda does it by telling you that this story is a part of a legend that goes back thousands of years, it shows you ancient scribes and tombs of soldiers in untold numbers of a war that took place before Hyrule existed. When you put a mass of history behind your locations you're able to create a feeling of realism because quite simply the more you know about something the more real it becomes whether it's how a Pokeball or a lightsaber work or how Jesus died on the cross which depends on what church you go to. The more you learn about it the more grounded in truth or 'reality' it is.
So keeping that in mind your pseudo-roman architecture akin to Zelda 2's art direction can be completely founded as long as your stick to some of the guidelines to make it entertaining and believable. I mean lets face it look at it all the theories that are crafted on why there are pyramids on every corner of the globe and how they're all built with the same design and architecture. I love the theory about how Atlantians fled the sinking city and spread across the world to build their grand pyramids in different cultures and spread their wealth of knowledge when in reality the reason the pyramids all look the same is because if you want to build a giant structure for your God or a tomb for your king the only you can make it is out of heavy stone stacked in to a pyramid shape in order for it to be excessively large and not buckle under its own weight. But the theories still are entertaining and fun to listen to :D
As far as my little experiment up there of an 'Unbreakable' Zelda I think it would be neat to mesh both our ideas in that we could have modern New York but as the game progresses it becomes more like Hyrule. The Goddesses awaken as their real purpose and the master sword fragments you collected begin to surge with energy and cause our reality to manifest in to what is the 'true' reality which is the land of Hyrule according to this story and whoosh pseudo-roman Zelda 2-esque architecture in a realistic modern world, millions panic, the seas boil, the sun turns to blood, cats and dogs living together, Elvis marries Bigfoot and has the Lochness monster's baby and Brad Pitt is carried on the shoulders of Steven Seagal to the stage where they accept the Academy Award for best Actors in Steven Spielberg's docu-drama cult hit; Ass Cracks in the Mud: Biography of a Black Jewish Rapist.
Other than that, Zelda is exactly like Mario or Metroid or Resident Evil or any other character driven role playing game in that the game mechanics rely heavily on your sense of exploration and you're willingness to confront danger or the unknown. How awesome is it to explore a dense forest for a key that opens a cave on the beach. Townspeople tell you the cave was once open and the roars of a monster could be heard and that the cave was sealed to protect the town. And here you go Mr. Fancy-Pants opening the cave... right when you walk in you're presented with a labyrinth that has no logical order and is filled with traps and enemies. Your entire progress could be halted for days (real days) because of a puzzle or a mini boss that seems impossible... or it could be a walk in the park. You wont know until you're done with the dungeon. And then you're reward, not only do you get this cool new gadget that allows you use a new ability that makes killing enemies or traversing harsh elements easier - you recieve an iconic gem that is proudly displayed on your menu showing you that you're one step closer to your ultimate goal.
The design is brilliant and Zelda has ALWAYS done it the best hands down, no one can argue that point but it doesn't stop companies like Capcom and Square from trying and usually providing something that's almost to Zelda's level (except the X series and the online FF krap).
But on to DJ's ideas I think in my opinion the whole sense of "magic" is extremely hard to do with any realistic sense of "this is actually happening". When a Black Mage casts Lightening 4 on a level 88 Mindflare and watches him turn to squid barbeque you get a sense of great accomplishment. Not only did you work hard for your Mage to acquire that ability but you timed it right AND you did your homework enough to know that Lightening elementals kill Mindflare's dead very quickly. But the entire sense of realism isn't there. Smacking him with a sword; real. Throwing a stone at him, real. But no video game or film (except LotR) had produced an incarnation of it where one can fully say "yes this is happening, my suspension of disbelief tells me that this person is creating wind, fire, etc from his fingertips." It's just hard to do.
Ryan's RPG has an interesting take on it that he told me about where it binds a more realistic view in to magic use but nothing compares to best book in the world on magic use. The Bible. Not only does it depict human beings using elementals and magic but it goes in to detail of how it was done, how a person can create real magic but then their body is worn and frail or at the very least weaker and that this magic is not there's. It's God's, and God is allowing them to use it because God is using them to perform his goals. As long as you believe in atleast some sense of God (even the less spiritual scientific method of unknown energies) then it becomes completely plausible and defined to a point that everyone can grasp and understand.
Taking that view, I think it's safe to say that the realistic depiction of magic use has a far greater impact when you understand the character that's using it and how they're doing it. Gandelf's staff has a crystal in it which he can focus his powers in to create grand effects - a real life white mage. But the elves can channel it out of sheer will. She closes her eyes, almost praying and the small brook becomes a thousand ton tidal wave with the characteristic look and sound of giant horses charging in to her enemies. It's real, it's actually happening because it's based in reality and it has some feasible ground (the water is already there, she's amplifying it with the idea of charging horses).
When it becomes stupid is when too many people can use it and have no basis of it's use. If some dude in jeans and a t-shirt summons Ifrit the Titan of Fire to demolish an army we're going to call shenanigans and throw a bullshit flag. He better atleast break a sweat and have some veins popping out of his forehead to give us an idea of the mental stress it requires to summon a demi-God. It's more entertaining and it basis the ridiculous idea of creating and forming elemental magic (or any applicable magic) from your fingers. You need to be wise, educated, 'show the character' and help us believe what's happening is actually happening. You do that and you say Wow instead of yawn and unfortunately there isn't a single video game on earth that ever made that connection except maybe *MAYBE* certain games like Silent Hill and the like who give us a realistic depiction of black magic and black arts to the point of it making a connection and being believable (for the story and the gameplayer)
phew wtf was my point again Oh, if you wanted to throw people in to an alternate universe that is unlike what they're used to that's one thing. But what if that alternate universe is ours? as long as it's vastly different from they're used to in a game series the ideal holds the same amount of water. But then just for the sake of tying the series together you can take this reality (our current world) and begin to transform it in to what people are used to - a demented transmogrification of what we know to be real in to something we know is unreal is a fantastic element in story telling and it always works because you're telling people that it exists for real. That building is the Sears Tower in the real world but if you put on these interdimensional goggles you'll see that it's also Lucifer's Keep, the exact location where he was cast down by Michael and God. But you can only see it with these goggles. You're instantly put in a mode of "yeah I can grasp that" and your interest is atleast some what turned on and you're ready for the rest of the story because it began based in reality.
Michael Crichton among a thousand other authors makes a very good living doing that and it's usually the best way to induce interest in your sci-fi or your fantasy world. My favorite part of the Neverending Story is when Atrayu talks directly to the boy reading the book in the real world. That scene always grabs me and I always believe it. Zelda does it by telling you that this story is a part of a legend that goes back thousands of years, it shows you ancient scribes and tombs of soldiers in untold numbers of a war that took place before Hyrule existed. When you put a mass of history behind your locations you're able to create a feeling of realism because quite simply the more you know about something the more real it becomes whether it's how a Pokeball or a lightsaber work or how Jesus died on the cross which depends on what church you go to. The more you learn about it the more grounded in truth or 'reality' it is.
So keeping that in mind your pseudo-roman architecture akin to Zelda 2's art direction can be completely founded as long as your stick to some of the guidelines to make it entertaining and believable. I mean lets face it look at it all the theories that are crafted on why there are pyramids on every corner of the globe and how they're all built with the same design and architecture. I love the theory about how Atlantians fled the sinking city and spread across the world to build their grand pyramids in different cultures and spread their wealth of knowledge when in reality the reason the pyramids all look the same is because if you want to build a giant structure for your God or a tomb for your king the only you can make it is out of heavy stone stacked in to a pyramid shape in order for it to be excessively large and not buckle under its own weight. But the theories still are entertaining and fun to listen to :D
As far as my little experiment up there of an 'Unbreakable' Zelda I think it would be neat to mesh both our ideas in that we could have modern New York but as the game progresses it becomes more like Hyrule. The Goddesses awaken as their real purpose and the master sword fragments you collected begin to surge with energy and cause our reality to manifest in to what is the 'true' reality which is the land of Hyrule according to this story and whoosh pseudo-roman Zelda 2-esque architecture in a realistic modern world, millions panic, the seas boil, the sun turns to blood, cats and dogs living together, Elvis marries Bigfoot and has the Lochness monster's baby and Brad Pitt is carried on the shoulders of Steven Seagal to the stage where they accept the Academy Award for best Actors in Steven Spielberg's docu-drama cult hit; Ass Cracks in the Mud: Biography of a Black Jewish Rapist.