11th March 2004, 3:47 PM
First. I was looking some more at the manual to Oracle of Seasons... there might be an out to our biggest problem with this.
He found the Triforce awaiting him there. Now that doesn't mean that the Triforce is in this period KEPT in the castle, just that it was there to summon him to stop the plot to bring back Ganon... but the OoT-Link still has the issue of the Triforce being sealed away. Well if the Sacred Realm was so secure then how does Ganon keep getitng out... :) And if Ganon can why not the Triforce to stop him? I mean the Triforce is certainly stronger than Ganon... okay this may not work but it should be thought about. I don't like escaping with 'it's a alternate universe' which right now is our best option.
Or it could just be some other Link we hadn't seen before, who the Triforce is summoning... but how about one other thing -- how about Twinrova? I mean you killed Koume and Kotake, I thought, so how are they still around... but given that they are dead we can't say that 'they are there so it has to be OoT-era unless they live a really long time' because ... well they died... :D
This goes into the WW continuity thing of course (Ganon in WW, Triforce in Oracles...). You're right they have problems. At least Oracles explained how Ganon was to escape! In WW he just ... does ... and the Triforce is also in Hyrule despite how if you believe OoT it probably also should be stuck in the Sacred Realm... obviously they got out somehow but how that happened without the Dark World stuff invading (like in LttP) and all... it just makes no sense... but it happens before this game starts. Maybe we could have a prequel? :)
Of course saying 'Oracles is right after OoT/MM but they made a continuity error' is stupid. If you want to believe it's after OoT (I think it makes more sense than putting it anywhere else) then ... um we'd better think of how the Triforce can get out of the Sacred Realm so that it could warn Link and send him on a quest to stop Ganon from coming back! Er... maybe the attempt to free Ganon weakened it or something and the Triforce got out but Ganon couldn't? ... okay that's a bit implausible but it's all I can think of...
Yeah I don't believe my theory that LA was standalone and Oracles comes before it either, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense... :)
1 and 2 happen after LttP! And didn't the LttP manual say how far before the original two it was? But then we get into what the original Japanese versions say... you mentioned that here but I don't know how to factor
Ah... didn't know that. Nice.
The enemies just seem to move really quickly, faster than LA (I played it right after to be sure and yup the baddies and their projectiles just seem faster in LttP) for sure. I wonder why... it makes the game pretty hard. Well that and how when you get hit you usually lose a full heart...
And what do you call 'having problems'? I'm currently in the first dungeon in the Dark World. I did beat the third Pendant dungeon (in mountains) without dying. I did use two faries in my bottles, true, and it did help that the boss just knocks you down and doesn't kill you like other bosses... but I didn't die... in the first part of the game I died more because I had to get used to how fast the enemies are. I think I am now.
Waste a space? Huh? As DJ says the shield in LA has a lot of uses! Okay in many situations I would like to have something like the Roc's Feather, or Pegasus Boots, or Hookshot or Bow or something to have two weapons (though usually I'd have one weapon and one something else, not always), but in LA the shield has many uses.
(same subject)
In LA most of the time I'd have the sword and an item... shield sometimes but more often one of the others. The feather is one of my favorites... I like to be able to jump. :) But I do equip the shield a fair amount because it's so useful, between how it not just blocks attacks but can push enemies, etc... but you clearly use the shield a lot more than I do.
I really, really like LA's item switch system. I know they let you switch everything because there are just two buttons so you can't do something like OoT, but it works so well... okay it means you have to switch items more often than in the other games but that's a price I don't mind paying. :)
... on that subject ...
Why would I rather select empty spaces? Because I still have trouble navigating the item menu in LA... the items are scattered around this box and pressing a direction doesn't always get you where you want to go in the box. I guess with time you get used to it but it'd be so much simpler if you could just select each of the boxes so you'd just have to move over to that box... as I said like LA where you can select all the boxes and not like LttP where it skips to the next occupied spot. And it especially matters with the larger LttP inventory... I've played this game for hours and the stupid menu still is a pain to get around. I get used to it but making people get used to something annoying isn't really the best way to solve a problem in a game. :)
Oh, and unequipping is just a nice bonus you get from a easier to navigate items menu.
DJ, I wasn't even thinking of how you end the menu. That I guess doesn't matter much... LA does have the two buttons to put it on that button but just hitting A or something in LttP isn't much of a difference.
Oh I admit a big part of it's probably nostalgia, but hey... I can't deny that that colors how I like games, just like everyone...
And LA was really hard! It's easy now that I've beaten it five times or so, but the first time... really hard game... and it's still easy to die a fair amount in the game. I do have a no-deaths game but that took a lot of trying to get through...
Quote:A New Chapter
One day in Hyrule, a strange force drew Link deep within Hyrule castle, where he found the Triforce resting, glittering brillinatly as it awaited him.
"Link... Link... Accept the quest of the Triforce!"
Suddenly Link was enveloped in a shaft of light, and the next moment, he vanished. ...
He found the Triforce awaiting him there. Now that doesn't mean that the Triforce is in this period KEPT in the castle, just that it was there to summon him to stop the plot to bring back Ganon... but the OoT-Link still has the issue of the Triforce being sealed away. Well if the Sacred Realm was so secure then how does Ganon keep getitng out... :) And if Ganon can why not the Triforce to stop him? I mean the Triforce is certainly stronger than Ganon... okay this may not work but it should be thought about. I don't like escaping with 'it's a alternate universe' which right now is our best option.
Or it could just be some other Link we hadn't seen before, who the Triforce is summoning... but how about one other thing -- how about Twinrova? I mean you killed Koume and Kotake, I thought, so how are they still around... but given that they are dead we can't say that 'they are there so it has to be OoT-era unless they live a really long time' because ... well they died... :D
This goes into the WW continuity thing of course (Ganon in WW, Triforce in Oracles...). You're right they have problems. At least Oracles explained how Ganon was to escape! In WW he just ... does ... and the Triforce is also in Hyrule despite how if you believe OoT it probably also should be stuck in the Sacred Realm... obviously they got out somehow but how that happened without the Dark World stuff invading (like in LttP) and all... it just makes no sense... but it happens before this game starts. Maybe we could have a prequel? :)
Of course saying 'Oracles is right after OoT/MM but they made a continuity error' is stupid. If you want to believe it's after OoT (I think it makes more sense than putting it anywhere else) then ... um we'd better think of how the Triforce can get out of the Sacred Realm so that it could warn Link and send him on a quest to stop Ganon from coming back! Er... maybe the attempt to free Ganon weakened it or something and the Triforce got out but Ganon couldn't? ... okay that's a bit implausible but it's all I can think of...
Quote:I was AGREEING with you about the age! I was saying "I certainly don't believe that" as in I don't believe the theory that it occured after LTTP/LA. I myself do place LA after LTTP.
Yeesh, pay attention to context.
Yeah I don't believe my theory that LA was standalone and Oracles comes before it either, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense... :)
Quote:Zelda 1, 2, LA, and the oracles games don't really have an absolutely definite place in the timeline. It's all guesswork. And then there are some plotholes with WW.
1 and 2 happen after LttP! And didn't the LttP manual say how far before the original two it was? But then we get into what the original Japanese versions say... you mentioned that here but I don't know how to factor
Quote: it in. I don't know what those versions say so all I have to go on is our manuals...
And LA isn't CERTAIN but as DJ says there are just so many hooks to LttP that it's easily the most sensible place for the game to fit. Oh people wanting to put it elsewhere can I guess but after LttP is just the one that m[QUOTE]akes sense far more than anywhere else, in many ways.
[QUOTE]It's there. As DJ said, you don't see it until you beat the game.
Ah... didn't know that. Nice.
Quote:LTTP is tougher than OOT and Wind Waker, for sure, but it's not nearly as hard as the first two Zelda games are. Though, honestly, if you're having problems like that this early in the game, you're in some trouble, because the difficulty ramps up considerably after you get the Master Sword.
The enemies just seem to move really quickly, faster than LA (I played it right after to be sure and yup the baddies and their projectiles just seem faster in LttP) for sure. I wonder why... it makes the game pretty hard. Well that and how when you get hit you usually lose a full heart...
And what do you call 'having problems'? I'm currently in the first dungeon in the Dark World. I did beat the third Pendant dungeon (in mountains) without dying. I did use two faries in my bottles, true, and it did help that the boss just knocks you down and doesn't kill you like other bosses... but I didn't die... in the first part of the game I died more because I had to get used to how fast the enemies are. I think I am now.
Quote:Yes, if you want to waste a space using it. I never did.
Waste a space? Huh? As DJ says the shield in LA has a lot of uses! Okay in many situations I would like to have something like the Roc's Feather, or Pegasus Boots, or Hookshot or Bow or something to have two weapons (though usually I'd have one weapon and one something else, not always), but in LA the shield has many uses.
(same subject)
Quote:Oh, regarding the shield, all Zelda games before LA involved just using your movement to guard rather than a guard button. The shield was always still VERY useful, just not as useful as it can get in LA. It blocks arrows and other projectiles (more as you get stronger shields) and that's all it was ever meant for, aside from Zelda 2 where it protected from just about every attack. I'll add that I usually had my shield and sword combo equipped at all times in LA. This is just like using the Master Sword in OOT, I just prefer having more protection to having more power (also, that's why I picked the blue tunic rather than the red one in the remake). I figure the best offense is a good defense, to reverse a phrase. It doesn't matter if you aren't doing as much damage if you can protect yourself while charging up a whirl attack. On that note, in Zelda 2 I always used the shield spell (essentially doubling your life) rather than using something like the fire spell (giving you a powerful fire blast attack from your sword even when not at full health). I don't ALWAYS use this strat mind you. If an attack is REALLY overpowering, I'll be able to defeat my enemy in just a couple moves so I'll just completely charge into them without any cares of defense in those cases. For example (though this is an extreme example using something that's ALMOST cheating), when I'm Oni Link going against Odalwa in Majora's Mask.
In LA most of the time I'd have the sword and an item... shield sometimes but more often one of the others. The feather is one of my favorites... I like to be able to jump. :) But I do equip the shield a fair amount because it's so useful, between how it not just blocks attacks but can push enemies, etc... but you clearly use the shield a lot more than I do.
I really, really like LA's item switch system. I know they let you switch everything because there are just two buttons so you can't do something like OoT, but it works so well... okay it means you have to switch items more often than in the other games but that's a price I don't mind paying. :)
... on that subject ...
Quote:Why would you want to select empty spaces?(same)
Quote:Weltall brings up a good point. When you can only use one item at a time anyway, LTTP's selection system is BETTER than LA's. You just point to it and unpause. Sure when you are used to pressing a button to assing an item to it, it can be tough, and in the Zelda games that worked like that, it's better. However, the Zelda 1 & LTTP method is plenty fine. Also, why would you want to point to empty spaces? As he said, they're empty. What, you would like to be able to completely unequip the Y button? You'd loose that ability once you got all the items anyway. I myself kept the boomerang item in there most of the time because well, I like to stun my enemies.
Why would I rather select empty spaces? Because I still have trouble navigating the item menu in LA... the items are scattered around this box and pressing a direction doesn't always get you where you want to go in the box. I guess with time you get used to it but it'd be so much simpler if you could just select each of the boxes so you'd just have to move over to that box... as I said like LA where you can select all the boxes and not like LttP where it skips to the next occupied spot. And it especially matters with the larger LttP inventory... I've played this game for hours and the stupid menu still is a pain to get around. I get used to it but making people get used to something annoying isn't really the best way to solve a problem in a game. :)
Oh, and unequipping is just a nice bonus you get from a easier to navigate items menu.
DJ, I wasn't even thinking of how you end the menu. That I guess doesn't matter much... LA does have the two buttons to put it on that button but just hitting A or something in LttP isn't much of a difference.
Quote:Eh... if you say so. I felt LA had some good points but in the end was not as good as LTTP. LA, for one, was too easy. LTTP still gets me when I let my guard down (as opposed to OOT, which, while I've played it less than LTTP, does not challenge me anymore.)
Oh I admit a big part of it's probably nostalgia, but hey... I can't deny that that colors how I like games, just like everyone...
And LA was really hard! It's easy now that I've beaten it five times or so, but the first time... really hard game... and it's still easy to die a fair amount in the game. I do have a no-deaths game but that took a lot of trying to get through...