6th October 2005, 12:52 AM
Looks like a missed most of the argument.
Paco your opinions are all based on what if scenarios and more 'the sky is falling' bullshit. I'm not trying to start up another argument, just think about this logically: It is the first video game controller to actual 3-D control for 3-D gaming. Dont like the remote design? Third party game not made to take advantage of it? Pop it in a Wavebird, your Game Cube styled-controller is now a traditional controller with full 3-D range of movement... for 3-D games... how ANYONE could be against this is beyond me.
This is the next logical leap from 2-D d-pads and anal sticks to 3-D fully immersive controllers. It was bound to happen.
Now I will totally agree with you that Nintendo's losing third parties. That is a fact. But it's not because those third parties feel that Nintendo is a niche market. Anyone being able to sell hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of their product worldwide decade after decade is not a niche market. When Nintendo shows off 4 pictures of a new Zelda game and the entire industry stops to look, it is definitely not a niche market.
However, what has happened is that Nintendo is no longer a formidable image for the two most important demographics in the past decade:
#1.) Pre-teen to young adult. The people who will sell their mothers for plasma screens and cellphones or whatever expensive, status ranking piece of electronic consumerism they can get fit in to the basement of their parent's house.
#2.) People who never owned a video game system and are in their mid 20's to late 30's. People who wanted another little gadget to waste time with, nothing special, a quick 5 minute run through a FPS before hitting the hay. These people buy one video game system per generation and one game every 6 months. They dont post on message boards, they dont look up anything on Gamefaqs, they could give a shit less about the industry: They just want to waste a few minutes between important things in their lives.
They dont buy much, but the sheer numbers of these people are staggering. These people own a PS2, a few have an XBox. None of them have both. But when you have an entire country filled with them you're guaranteed to push sales as an 'executive toy' in the millions.
Nintendo also notices that trend and whoosh, the GBMicro. Everyone I know who plays video games calls it a total waste. Everyone I know who never plays video games imediately want one at first sight.
They dont know what game to get, they nothing about video games: So they buy the game with the best looking art on the cover. It's a strange phenomenon. Sony capatalized on this: in fact sony is why this new demographic exists. That demographic are being called the anti-nerds (we're the nerds who debate over games, study them, read reviews before buying, etc).
Sadly, the number of nerds (us) and the number of anti-nerds has a strong leader... the anti-nerds. Why? Because most people just dont care about video games beyond that 15 minute push and at the most, an hour long 4 player time-killer.
Companies are making oodles and oodles of money out of this: It's like the 8-bit days when people bought a video game because the story on the back of the box was cool, or the art on the box had a half-naked girl. These people are anti-nerds but they're also anti-productive. That's why Nintendo keeps saying 'we're worried about the industry" - Because the vast majority of those people aren't going to carry in to next gen. They may drop it completely, decide that video games are too expensive for a hobby or just lose interest. They will never have sway towards a certain manufacturer or company, they will never decide that X company is the best or worst because they simply dont care. That market is called a dead end. get the money from them now because it wont be there later.
That is a niche market.
Then the teens and early adults. Well thats where we were, remember? Having debates about Super Mario bros not being as good as Alex Kid and getting in fights over who invented the invincibility ability, etc. And that's what's happening right now between the nerds who have a PS2 and those who have XBox and those who have both. But where's the talk about Nintendo? it's not there, you'll only find it in places like this, among the 'older' gamers who have been playing since the early 80's, people who dont fall in sony's and MS's marketing demographics. We're not 'hArDc0R111' or XTREM' or anything else you want to label. We just want good mind altering dru... games that we can escape in to for hours at a time.
People who handle the money in this industry are thinking this; "So it's just Sony and MS as far as big business (third parties) is concerned, I want to make money and nobody in my primary demographics that this game is for (read: shit game programed by 'DJ Nizzle and 'Yo, Fucka Studios') talks about Nintendo.
Nintendo has lost its cool factor. But there's a second, much more important part to this. There's a definite reason Nintendo lost it's cool factor and it has nothing to do with Nintendo or Sony, or MS or anything in this industry- It's because we, the nerds, wont buy krappy games.
Sony uncorked a magical flowing river of money and now that Sony is about to enter it's 3rd system (and MS its 2nd) business's want to capatalize and turn the highest profit... they see Sony reaping the most buzz and media with MS right behind and they want to be a part of that. Everyone and their dog and Moses has a PS2. ***I*** have a PS2, you cant help it, everyone is jumping off a bridge and no one wants to be left out. It's like one of those noodle-grabbing utensils that look like sexual aids. You will can go through life never using it and yet everyone owns one.
So... why is that?
Think about this for a moment. It's so logical it's stupid:
Q: Who are the people that buy Nintendo systems and games?
A: Video game vets, people who know the difference between a crash Bandicoot game and a Mario game - People who can see programing flaws, read reviews, understand what makes a game a good game and they know that Nintendo consistently does this.
Q: Why is the GameCube failing to take the #1 spot world-wide or in America?
A: Nintendo lost the "it" factor, causing sales from other demographics to plateu. Why: Lack of third parties since N64 mid-life. (Sony having ALL 3rd party support by that point)
Q: Why has Nintendo lost 3rd parties since N64?
A: Two major reasons, CD's are cheaper than carts and third parties found that games released on Nintendo systems do not sell well and over time, opted for Playstation or XBox, often times ignoring Gamecube despite it having an installed user base greater than the XBox (so says Nintendo's website and MS's).
Q: What is the majority of third parties business model and product?
A: Quickly manufactured games to capalize on current trends. Ie. TV shows, films, comics, books, music, topical genres (sports, war sims) etc.
So you have a consumer in this corner, one who likes Nintendo. Every Nintendo game they buy is above average, everything is working and bug-free. On top of that, the games are timeless and can be enjoyed for months if not years before growing stale - this is not opinion, all industry leaders praise Nintendo for their games. Simply put; the best games on the market.
In the other corner you have a consumer that will buy a game regardless of the company that made it. They own a PS2, they'll get any game if the cover art is decent or if it has a dark, mature theme that doesn't make them (a 12 year old) feel like a ...11 year old. They will buy any game, from any publisher, from any company.
Now here's Mr. Game Designer/Producer who just got done coding 'Ass on top of Ass: Asscrackistan'. A quickly manufactured game based on a movie that's about to hit theaters. If you were to compare this game to a good one, your brain would litteraly melt and you would die.
...which consumer are you going to try and sell it to? The "educated" one (if you can call it that) or the guy who buys anything regardless?
I'll tell you exactly what you do, you make an ad campaign that shows the high points of your game that are often either fabricated, embelished or at the very least sugar coated with tons o'production value in the 30 second commercial.
THIS SUMMER
ASS
ASS
ASSCRACKISTAN!!!!
*explosion*
261 WEAPONS!
MULTIPLAYER MAYHEM!
ONLINE DEATHMATCH MODE MAKE YOUR SISTER CRY!
4,000 LEVELS OF IN-YOUR-FACE TWISTED GORISH HELL!
KILL JESUS, EAT WOMEN, MICROWAVE YOUR NEIGHBOR'S DOG!
*punch-line in the ad that has nothing to do with the game but gets you to laugh and usually involves someone being killed by flaming death*
RATED M FOR *MACHO*!!!!!!
Now, when we were kids, we didnt have ads like this... we had ads like... well I think I put a mental block on them, but they were bad ...and boring. But if I saw this ad when i was 12 I would have ejaculated all over the living room followed by a shrieking begging noise for my parents to buy me this game... only to be severly disappointed when I got home with it.
But the point is, the reason the 3rd parties are jumping on to Sony and MS is because poop does not sell well among people who have noses... wait i think I messed that proverb up... You get the idea.
You can debate this if you want, but regardless of whether you agree or not, this is exactly what's happening. And it will continue to do so until consumers stop letting companies dupe them in to buying Asscrackistan and all its sequels.
Paco your opinions are all based on what if scenarios and more 'the sky is falling' bullshit. I'm not trying to start up another argument, just think about this logically: It is the first video game controller to actual 3-D control for 3-D gaming. Dont like the remote design? Third party game not made to take advantage of it? Pop it in a Wavebird, your Game Cube styled-controller is now a traditional controller with full 3-D range of movement... for 3-D games... how ANYONE could be against this is beyond me.
This is the next logical leap from 2-D d-pads and anal sticks to 3-D fully immersive controllers. It was bound to happen.
Now I will totally agree with you that Nintendo's losing third parties. That is a fact. But it's not because those third parties feel that Nintendo is a niche market. Anyone being able to sell hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of their product worldwide decade after decade is not a niche market. When Nintendo shows off 4 pictures of a new Zelda game and the entire industry stops to look, it is definitely not a niche market.
However, what has happened is that Nintendo is no longer a formidable image for the two most important demographics in the past decade:
#1.) Pre-teen to young adult. The people who will sell their mothers for plasma screens and cellphones or whatever expensive, status ranking piece of electronic consumerism they can get fit in to the basement of their parent's house.
#2.) People who never owned a video game system and are in their mid 20's to late 30's. People who wanted another little gadget to waste time with, nothing special, a quick 5 minute run through a FPS before hitting the hay. These people buy one video game system per generation and one game every 6 months. They dont post on message boards, they dont look up anything on Gamefaqs, they could give a shit less about the industry: They just want to waste a few minutes between important things in their lives.
They dont buy much, but the sheer numbers of these people are staggering. These people own a PS2, a few have an XBox. None of them have both. But when you have an entire country filled with them you're guaranteed to push sales as an 'executive toy' in the millions.
Nintendo also notices that trend and whoosh, the GBMicro. Everyone I know who plays video games calls it a total waste. Everyone I know who never plays video games imediately want one at first sight.
They dont know what game to get, they nothing about video games: So they buy the game with the best looking art on the cover. It's a strange phenomenon. Sony capatalized on this: in fact sony is why this new demographic exists. That demographic are being called the anti-nerds (we're the nerds who debate over games, study them, read reviews before buying, etc).
Sadly, the number of nerds (us) and the number of anti-nerds has a strong leader... the anti-nerds. Why? Because most people just dont care about video games beyond that 15 minute push and at the most, an hour long 4 player time-killer.
Companies are making oodles and oodles of money out of this: It's like the 8-bit days when people bought a video game because the story on the back of the box was cool, or the art on the box had a half-naked girl. These people are anti-nerds but they're also anti-productive. That's why Nintendo keeps saying 'we're worried about the industry" - Because the vast majority of those people aren't going to carry in to next gen. They may drop it completely, decide that video games are too expensive for a hobby or just lose interest. They will never have sway towards a certain manufacturer or company, they will never decide that X company is the best or worst because they simply dont care. That market is called a dead end. get the money from them now because it wont be there later.
That is a niche market.
Then the teens and early adults. Well thats where we were, remember? Having debates about Super Mario bros not being as good as Alex Kid and getting in fights over who invented the invincibility ability, etc. And that's what's happening right now between the nerds who have a PS2 and those who have XBox and those who have both. But where's the talk about Nintendo? it's not there, you'll only find it in places like this, among the 'older' gamers who have been playing since the early 80's, people who dont fall in sony's and MS's marketing demographics. We're not 'hArDc0R111' or XTREM' or anything else you want to label. We just want good mind altering dru... games that we can escape in to for hours at a time.
People who handle the money in this industry are thinking this; "So it's just Sony and MS as far as big business (third parties) is concerned, I want to make money and nobody in my primary demographics that this game is for (read: shit game programed by 'DJ Nizzle and 'Yo, Fucka Studios') talks about Nintendo.
Nintendo has lost its cool factor. But there's a second, much more important part to this. There's a definite reason Nintendo lost it's cool factor and it has nothing to do with Nintendo or Sony, or MS or anything in this industry- It's because we, the nerds, wont buy krappy games.
Sony uncorked a magical flowing river of money and now that Sony is about to enter it's 3rd system (and MS its 2nd) business's want to capatalize and turn the highest profit... they see Sony reaping the most buzz and media with MS right behind and they want to be a part of that. Everyone and their dog and Moses has a PS2. ***I*** have a PS2, you cant help it, everyone is jumping off a bridge and no one wants to be left out. It's like one of those noodle-grabbing utensils that look like sexual aids. You will can go through life never using it and yet everyone owns one.
So... why is that?
Think about this for a moment. It's so logical it's stupid:
Q: Who are the people that buy Nintendo systems and games?
A: Video game vets, people who know the difference between a crash Bandicoot game and a Mario game - People who can see programing flaws, read reviews, understand what makes a game a good game and they know that Nintendo consistently does this.
Q: Why is the GameCube failing to take the #1 spot world-wide or in America?
A: Nintendo lost the "it" factor, causing sales from other demographics to plateu. Why: Lack of third parties since N64 mid-life. (Sony having ALL 3rd party support by that point)
Q: Why has Nintendo lost 3rd parties since N64?
A: Two major reasons, CD's are cheaper than carts and third parties found that games released on Nintendo systems do not sell well and over time, opted for Playstation or XBox, often times ignoring Gamecube despite it having an installed user base greater than the XBox (so says Nintendo's website and MS's).
Q: What is the majority of third parties business model and product?
A: Quickly manufactured games to capalize on current trends. Ie. TV shows, films, comics, books, music, topical genres (sports, war sims) etc.
So you have a consumer in this corner, one who likes Nintendo. Every Nintendo game they buy is above average, everything is working and bug-free. On top of that, the games are timeless and can be enjoyed for months if not years before growing stale - this is not opinion, all industry leaders praise Nintendo for their games. Simply put; the best games on the market.
In the other corner you have a consumer that will buy a game regardless of the company that made it. They own a PS2, they'll get any game if the cover art is decent or if it has a dark, mature theme that doesn't make them (a 12 year old) feel like a ...11 year old. They will buy any game, from any publisher, from any company.
Now here's Mr. Game Designer/Producer who just got done coding 'Ass on top of Ass: Asscrackistan'. A quickly manufactured game based on a movie that's about to hit theaters. If you were to compare this game to a good one, your brain would litteraly melt and you would die.
...which consumer are you going to try and sell it to? The "educated" one (if you can call it that) or the guy who buys anything regardless?
I'll tell you exactly what you do, you make an ad campaign that shows the high points of your game that are often either fabricated, embelished or at the very least sugar coated with tons o'production value in the 30 second commercial.
THIS SUMMER
ASS
ASS
ASSCRACKISTAN!!!!
*explosion*
261 WEAPONS!
MULTIPLAYER MAYHEM!
ONLINE DEATHMATCH MODE MAKE YOUR SISTER CRY!
4,000 LEVELS OF IN-YOUR-FACE TWISTED GORISH HELL!
KILL JESUS, EAT WOMEN, MICROWAVE YOUR NEIGHBOR'S DOG!
*punch-line in the ad that has nothing to do with the game but gets you to laugh and usually involves someone being killed by flaming death*
RATED M FOR *MACHO*!!!!!!
Now, when we were kids, we didnt have ads like this... we had ads like... well I think I put a mental block on them, but they were bad ...and boring. But if I saw this ad when i was 12 I would have ejaculated all over the living room followed by a shrieking begging noise for my parents to buy me this game... only to be severly disappointed when I got home with it.
But the point is, the reason the 3rd parties are jumping on to Sony and MS is because poop does not sell well among people who have noses... wait i think I messed that proverb up... You get the idea.
You can debate this if you want, but regardless of whether you agree or not, this is exactly what's happening. And it will continue to do so until consumers stop letting companies dupe them in to buying Asscrackistan and all its sequels.