24th July 2005, 11:53 AM
First... (LL and GR) you have to realize that right now Iraq has one of the most liberal women's rights laws in the middle east, thanks to the 1959 British constitution that Sadaam did not change (he was a secular ruler, remember, and no great friend of the clerics...). Now that the religious types have the power, they want to take their chance and revert Iraqi law back fifty years closer to where it is in places like Saudi Arabia (where, remember, women still can't even get driver's liscences...). That is awful.
Yes, this is mostly true... the proposed "solution" here of basing treatment on your religion would not be a solution, though. This is because of the fact that in circumstances like those, religious types would try (and to a large part probably succeed) in, through law or just intimidation, forcing everyone to follow the strictest of the laws -- who cares if you're one of Iraq's 2% christian population, you'd probably be forced to follow Islamic law anyway in fear of the clerics... you can't stop people from thinking what they do, but you can try to make a constitution that tries to uphold decent standards and then make an effort to reshape their society so they do not see those standards as wrong anymore. Not easy, but probably better than doing nothing and saying "who cares if it takes another hundred years"...
Winnable? Only if we redefine winning...
Hard-right people like that aren't exactly the biggest friends of women's rights here, much less in Iraq... between that and Bush's repeatedly shown complete disdain and dislike for ... everything in the world that isn't America... I don't think he'd make much of an effort.
Not all Islamic countries are quite as bad as you suggest -- some, like Qatar and Kuwait, have made progress, and of course Turkey is a good example of what a Muslim country could be (a somewhat-repressive-but-improving example, of course (to mention their supression of the Kurds), but on the political front a good example)... and Iraqi law now is fairly liberal. Iran too, on the women's rights front (that is to distinguish it from other things where Iranian law is horrific, such as the death penalty (not just using it, but using it on adults and juveniles alike often for crimes that would never earn such a punishment anywhere in the first world), supression of dissidents, etc), though with this new president who's a lackey of the Ayatollah who knows what will happen...
Quote:Islam is the dominating influence in every Arab country, and the only governments that have been able to curb its influence up to now are those of dictators like Musharraf in Egypt and Bouteflika in Algeria. Most of those dictators are pan-Arabists (or were at least issued from that milieu) as was Saddam Hussein, which coincides with the fact that the Iraqi Sunnis, Hussein's main support base, form the main opposition to Islamic law as mentioned in the first article. What's interesting in Iraq is that there are three ethnic groups, two of which are to a certain degree secularized, which gives hope that these two groups - the Sunnis and the Kurds - might form a power bloc to prevent the constitution from becoming overly Islamicized. In a society used to democracy this is probably what would happen, but the Sunnis are involved in a big way with the insurgency and most of them have refused to even take part in the political debate. This is the US's big problem right now: trying to get the Sunnis to put down their weapons and realize that their interests coincide with the US's, without alienating the Shi'ite majority that, while supportive of US presence (well no one is supportive of the US, but basically they support the "New Iraq"), is strongly Islamist. The only group that supports the Ammies all the way are the Kurds. Those guys are pretty awesome, but mainly because they're sick of getting shot at by everybody and would really like to have their own country.
Yes, this is mostly true... the proposed "solution" here of basing treatment on your religion would not be a solution, though. This is because of the fact that in circumstances like those, religious types would try (and to a large part probably succeed) in, through law or just intimidation, forcing everyone to follow the strictest of the laws -- who cares if you're one of Iraq's 2% christian population, you'd probably be forced to follow Islamic law anyway in fear of the clerics... you can't stop people from thinking what they do, but you can try to make a constitution that tries to uphold decent standards and then make an effort to reshape their society so they do not see those standards as wrong anymore. Not easy, but probably better than doing nothing and saying "who cares if it takes another hundred years"...
Quote:Forcing the Iraqis to change the constitution is a really, really bad idea that would lead to the alienation of the Shi'ites and change a difficult but winnable battle into a bloodbath of epic proportions (see: Vietnam). Just sayin. Go with the flow for now.
Winnable? Only if we redefine winning...
Quote:And finally, what is with the comment " I just don't know if this administration cares enough to try...". Are you blaming this on Bush?
Hard-right people like that aren't exactly the biggest friends of women's rights here, much less in Iraq... between that and Bush's repeatedly shown complete disdain and dislike for ... everything in the world that isn't America... I don't think he'd make much of an effort.
Quote:Now don't misunderstand, I'm not pro-Islam in the slightest. I hate Islam. But the world isn't changed overnight. Before you rage against the leaders, you need to have some understanding of what life is like for them. I think they biggest thing is to give them a democracy, place some key ideas in their minds, and give the keys to the people. Let them make the push for equal rights, just like what happened here. Then it will be a decision Iraq made, not a decision the US made.
Not all Islamic countries are quite as bad as you suggest -- some, like Qatar and Kuwait, have made progress, and of course Turkey is a good example of what a Muslim country could be (a somewhat-repressive-but-improving example, of course (to mention their supression of the Kurds), but on the political front a good example)... and Iraqi law now is fairly liberal. Iran too, on the women's rights front (that is to distinguish it from other things where Iranian law is horrific, such as the death penalty (not just using it, but using it on adults and juveniles alike often for crimes that would never earn such a punishment anywhere in the first world), supression of dissidents, etc), though with this new president who's a lackey of the Ayatollah who knows what will happen...