10th June 2005, 12:46 AM
Guess I can't avoid it. I really will have to use quotes to make any sense out of what I will say.
I wouldn't try and defend what I said like that, as though it was somehow proof. I'm not that illogical, at least I'd like to think so. In reality I just don't know if it's compatible or not. I would hope for the former, but it's already said and done and I just haven't heard anything... That itself says something. I would think Nintendo would advertise such a function, and in fact there's no such option in the DS main menu to "browse" such a card. Most likely, no... Sad really, they missed an opportunity.
You must have read what I said oddly. What I was saying is it's not that big a deal and I'd get used to it (and in some cases it would work better), but in some cases it's actually better to have the select button closer to the direction controls.
Doable yes, and also I believe fully clicking the sticks will not be the design. I believe simply pressing them a little bit would be enough for the emulator if it is programmed as such.
As for what I meant by it not working as well... Well, I just meant what you seem to have said. The formation of those buttons won't do as well for the control schemes of SNES games. But, in a more specific sense, some games had specific needs for pressing certain buttons simultaneously that will be very awkward on that controller. Consider, for example, Super Mario World. In that game, you would press Y to run and B to jump, normally. However, if you wanted to do a running spin jump, as I did now and again, it was best to hold X and then press A. Envision if the GCN's B was the Y, and Y was the A (the most likely setup). Now imagine holding X and pressing Y to jump on the GCN controller. Awkward, no? From smooth switching to barely doable, not good. But yes, it would at least work.
Did I say that? Oops, yeah I meant the N64 there, and I believe I went on in detail about it. If you look at my post in retrospect I think you'll see that. Take everything I said there with that in mind. I pretty much agree with your analysis of the N64 situation there.
Well actually yes that was the idea. Plus, some current gen games still like to put odd functions on a spare button. I can't see a problem and don't see why Nintendo went and ditched that button anyway. Besides, restoring it now prevents needing to restore it later.
I think the idea of a SINGLE altered controller makes sense for everyone though, that is, no wasting money on like 3 different controllers. Instead, just make one that works for all of them. Since they were all just a steady evolution, making one that does it all would work fine. Also, I really really like the idea of ditching the 3 prong thing of the N64 :D.
A Black Falcon Wrote:SD cards are not compatible with the DS cardslot. The Play-Yan movie player (in Japan) runs on SD cards and it's a GBA cart with an SD slot... now you could say 'that's to make it GBA compatible too', which is probably true, but I think it's also true that the DS cardslot is not SD card compatible.
I wouldn't try and defend what I said like that, as though it was somehow proof. I'm not that illogical, at least I'd like to think so. In reality I just don't know if it's compatible or not. I would hope for the former, but it's already said and done and I just haven't heard anything... That itself says something. I would think Nintendo would advertise such a function, and in fact there's no such option in the DS main menu to "browse" such a card. Most likely, no... Sad really, they missed an opportunity.
Quote:NES is easy... Select? You can put it anywhere. Sure, it wouldn't be in the 'right' place, but it's not THAT bad... and anyway, Select is probably the least-used button. It'd work just like it does for Mega Man Anniversary, the GB Player, Metroid 1 in Prime, etc.
You must have read what I said oddly. What I was saying is it's not that big a deal and I'd get used to it (and in some cases it would work better), but in some cases it's actually better to have the select button closer to the direction controls.
Quote:SNES? Yeah, Z is Select. The layout is bad because of the face-button positioning and analog shoulder buttons (if you had to fully click them in every time to activate L or R it'd be a big pain...)... but at least both consoles are 8-button systems, so it's doable, even if it'd be quite a bit less well laid out for the way the games are designed.
Doable yes, and also I believe fully clicking the sticks will not be the design. I believe simply pressing them a little bit would be enough for the emulator if it is programmed as such.
As for what I meant by it not working as well... Well, I just meant what you seem to have said. The formation of those buttons won't do as well for the control schemes of SNES games. But, in a more specific sense, some games had specific needs for pressing certain buttons simultaneously that will be very awkward on that controller. Consider, for example, Super Mario World. In that game, you would press Y to run and B to jump, normally. However, if you wanted to do a running spin jump, as I did now and again, it was best to hold X and then press A. Envision if the GCN's B was the Y, and Y was the A (the most likely setup). Now imagine holding X and pressing Y to jump on the GCN controller. Awkward, no? From smooth switching to barely doable, not good. But yes, it would at least work.
Quote:Oh, you never got to the N64 you know... :) (that is, you said 'the SNES would be the biggest problem' while I would definitely say no, the N64 is a bigger problem. After all, the GC and SNES are both 8-button systems. The N64 has ten buttons. Ouch. All you can do is map something to C, and for many games that would not work AT ALL.
Did I say that? Oops, yeah I meant the N64 there, and I believe I went on in detail about it. If you look at my post in retrospect I think you'll see that. Take everything I said there with that in mind. I pretty much agree with your analysis of the N64 situation there.
Quote:Or in short: I agree, we need a pad that restores those two face buttons Nintendo cut out to make the GC pad. :) And clickable control sticks. As for Select, though... I don't know. Does it need to be a 12-button pad? I'm not so sure... 10 or 11 seems like enough, really. Select would only really be useful for NES/SNES games... I mean, how often are the Select (or whatever they call them) buttons used on the PSX/2/XBox? For a function that needs to be there that is... I wouldn't imagine it's all that much.
Well actually yes that was the idea. Plus, some current gen games still like to put odd functions on a spare button. I can't see a problem and don't see why Nintendo went and ditched that button anyway. Besides, restoring it now prevents needing to restore it later.
Quote:Anyway, what I'd REALLY hope for is this: First, we know that the GC controller will be different in some way. If it's different but still is conventional enough to be a 10-plus button pad (with at least one analog stick and at least one dpad), then great, you could make it work for all three of those older consoles. But if it's something weird, you'd better release some kind of specialized "controller just for the classics", like a wireless Revolution SNES controller and a wireless Revolution N64 controller if you want people to really be able to play them, because that GC controller backwards compatibility won't help you enough there.
I think the idea of a SINGLE altered controller makes sense for everyone though, that is, no wasting money on like 3 different controllers. Instead, just make one that works for all of them. Since they were all just a steady evolution, making one that does it all would work fine. Also, I really really like the idea of ditching the 3 prong thing of the N64 :D.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)