16th May 2005, 11:57 PM
"Western Medicine' is a silly statement, suggesting that scientific evidence is a european concept exclusively.
What I'm saying is this. Background in it or no, I am still capable of basic logic, and I only gave one link here. The general consensus among the skeptics is that yes, it really is just nonsense. The sad truth is, a lot of pretty stupid stuff is getting government approval in various bad ways. Now on the other hand, chiropractic, in the sense of spinal adjustments alleviating certain symptoms, seems to be showing some positive results.
I haven't studied medicine, no, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to challenge the knowledge of one who has/is, especially when I have good reason to doubt certain things.
http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html
According to this, some very limited applications of it DO show some promise. This is far from the entire claim being proven, but it does show needle sticking can do some beneficial things, completely unrelated to "chi" nonsense of course.
At any rate, in listing it, I was specifically speaking of the standard claims as opposed to limited stuff that could be called the same thing that show good promise. The standard claims I hear are things like it can cure cancer.
And yes, science doesn't need to have an explanation of HOW somethign works to prove that there IS an effect. But, it does need to prove the effect. Your second post seems to be an unquestioning endorsement. You seem to be saying "we'll eventually figure out how it works, they use different terms, but hey, it works". Sorry, but you need to prove it works scientifically. Different terms? Well, if their terms are in the lines of pseudoscience, sorry but they need to prove it. You must show the effect to be real first. This MUST be shown by science by the way, not by "eastern methods", whatever that means.
Don't be so quick to make science seem limited to "the west". That suggest that if I only take science to be accurate, I'm ignoring "the east". Nope. Science is on both sides, and silly nonsense is on both sides too.
What I'm saying is this. Background in it or no, I am still capable of basic logic, and I only gave one link here. The general consensus among the skeptics is that yes, it really is just nonsense. The sad truth is, a lot of pretty stupid stuff is getting government approval in various bad ways. Now on the other hand, chiropractic, in the sense of spinal adjustments alleviating certain symptoms, seems to be showing some positive results.
I haven't studied medicine, no, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to challenge the knowledge of one who has/is, especially when I have good reason to doubt certain things.
http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html
According to this, some very limited applications of it DO show some promise. This is far from the entire claim being proven, but it does show needle sticking can do some beneficial things, completely unrelated to "chi" nonsense of course.
At any rate, in listing it, I was specifically speaking of the standard claims as opposed to limited stuff that could be called the same thing that show good promise. The standard claims I hear are things like it can cure cancer.
And yes, science doesn't need to have an explanation of HOW somethign works to prove that there IS an effect. But, it does need to prove the effect. Your second post seems to be an unquestioning endorsement. You seem to be saying "we'll eventually figure out how it works, they use different terms, but hey, it works". Sorry, but you need to prove it works scientifically. Different terms? Well, if their terms are in the lines of pseudoscience, sorry but they need to prove it. You must show the effect to be real first. This MUST be shown by science by the way, not by "eastern methods", whatever that means.
Don't be so quick to make science seem limited to "the west". That suggest that if I only take science to be accurate, I'm ignoring "the east". Nope. Science is on both sides, and silly nonsense is on both sides too.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)