E3

[A Black Falcon]

Eh, you're thinking about advertising again. People aren't dumb if they don't spend all of their time thinking about videogames.

We're talking about those "only for" labels here. They only exist for advertising purposes, so the only possible topic of discussion is advertising.

If any of you showed that you actually do understand what I'm saying (which isn't my opinion, it's facts about marketing and business), then I wouldn't care. But the responses I've been getting so far show that no one has yet to fully understand what I'm saying. I thought that you did for a little while there, but then you reverted back to your usual ABFisms.

This would be a reasonable comment if we forgot the fact that to you fact and opinion are the same. Your opinions are, for all intents and purposes, facts. You don't demonstrate that you can tell the difference between them, so my point is quite accurate.

Yes, The Sims and games like that are definitely being bought by people other than the hardcore gaming crowd. And I can see how this would make you think that this proves your "point", because I do admit that this is confusing, but think about the facts here for a minute instead of your never-ending desire to try and prove me wrong, and I think you'll see that this fits perfectly with the model that I've explained. I was going to mention games like The Sims before, but decided to wait until someone brought it up because things were already confusing enough as it is. So allow me to explain.

There are basically four types of gamers that publishers try to target (right now):

Hardcore PC gamers

Casual PC gamers

Hardcore console gamers

Casual console gamers

The hardcore PC gamer is the main target of PC game publishers, all except for a few companies like EA. This is why there are usually much better games on PC top ten lists than console ones. Even smaller games do well on the PC, by PC standards. However, there are also a few types of games (or rather, franchises) that sell well pretty much entirely because of casual PC gamers. The Sims and Zoo Tycoon are some such games. They don't require great PCs and attract a different type of casual gamer, the type who wouldn't normally play games, and certainly wouldn't play something like Halo. There is of course a bit of cross-contamination between the two main audiences, but they are separate enough for the publishers and so they act accordingly.

The situation is similar with consoles, except with consoles the casuals are a far greater majority then either type is on the PC. This is why the console market is thriving so much, because there are far, far more casual gamers out there than hardcore ones. And of course, there is cross-contamination between all four types of gamers, but they are separate enough for publishers, as I said.

And if you can find anywhere in my posts (in this thread) where I deny this, go ahead and try. But I don't. I agreed with you, PC and console gamers have slightly different markets. I just think that they are closer together than you do. The frequency of ports proves it. There is a lot of overlap. Not just "a bit" of it (and it's not "contamination"... that's a very negative term, and it's not a negative thing to have overlap...). Also, usually in advertising when a game is available on multiple platforms the symbols for the various systems are shown, including PC. I'd say that it's the exception to be like Doom 3 and not mention the PC release, not the rule.

Still, though, of course when a game is first designed it has a specific market in mind. But most games are also meant to be accessible to all groups, or at least members in all groups... the ones that are not either go out of business or end up like Matrix Games. :) Of course, you can never quite judge what is going to be a success, as sure successes fail sometimes and games that are just tossed out there with little hope of success manage to make it, but they try... that's one of the most cited reasons for the increasing similarity between games, of course. Marketing-types say "liscences sell!" or "familiar game designs sell!" so developers have to make those games. (and this is equally applicable to both hardcore and softcore gamers...).

Oh yes, and I do think that hardcore gamers still make up a significant portion of game sales. Certainly a far higher percentage of sales than their numbers would indicate proportionally. But the console/PC divide? Despite the fact that lots of people do like to talk about how different pcs and consoles are, or how consoles are dooming the pc, or whatever, I definitely think that the difference isn't that big. But consoles aren't going to kill off the PC anytime soon -- as I've been saying, it's different, and unique, enough that it's definitely going to be around for the long term as a gaming platform. Without question (I'm just saying that in case saying "consoles and pcs are the same market" could lead someone to think that I think that they are exactly the same so that one of them will end up going away or something... I don't.).

Oh, one more thing. Sales. On PC, if you look at the lists, typically close to half of the top 10s are softcore games like The Sims and various Tycoon games. Much better games on PC sales lists? Wha... no, I definitely disagree! Consoles don't see games like those consistently taking up half of their sales charts, year after year...

What do you mean?

That I think Nintendo will continue to operate as they have for some years now... it's not a bold prediction at all, you know. They're a very conservative company.

If you ignore the facts then I can understand why you'd see it that way.

If you're selling peach baskets in some town in Colorado that's not available in other stores in that town, you're going to advertise that fact. Yes, you can also buy peach baskets in California, but the audience this peach basket seller is trying to target doesn't care if they can buy peach baskets in California, because they don't want to go to California. They just want to get their peach baskets in town, they just want to know if they can get peach baskets from other stores in town.

Basically: the people who Microsoft made the stickers for are more than likely not going to care if Doom 3 is available on the PC, because they don't want it for the PC nor do they have a powerful enough PC to play it. They play their games on their consoles, and they want to know if they can get it for the other systems or not. So Microsoft really isn't misleading these people because they're not advertising the fact that it's also on the PC (not only because it would make for a bigger sticker, haha). They're just telling them what they want to know.

You're taking it as a given that people buying Doom 3 on X-Box don't have PCs capable of playing it on PC (that's how I interpret the 'california/colorado' thing, anyway...). I do not agree that that is necessarially true. Sure, it probably is in many cases, but definitely not all... for some, it'll just be the fact that they wouldn't think of buying a pc game stopping them. So that's an invalid example, as it has very little to do with the situation here. The difference between the markets just isn't that big. As I said, MS's motives are to sell X-Boxes. I guess they're assuming that any PC gamer who cares has the game already (and if they don't this mention if it might get them to go get it for pc?)... but even so, it's not right of them.



And anyway, as I said, games usually DO advertise all their versions, and not just one of them... sure, you'll focus on your target audience the most (which for Doom 3, by the way, is PC gamers), but you'll look at those other groups as well.

Anyway, what you're saying here is that I must not only understand your explanation of MS's marketing-speak, but agree and say that it's a sane train of thought. I it... I just think it's completely absurd and wrong. And I'm basing that on plenty of well thought out positions.

People here aren't all idiots all the time, OB1, no matter how much you think in your mind that they are...

I've already explained my point dozens of times already, so all you need to do is look up and read my posts.

You've spent most of your time complaining about how no one understands your point. That does nothing to get them to understand it. And if you really don't want to write it again, you could cite yourself explaining your point...