2nd May 2005, 2:43 PM
Quote:As dumb as you may think Nintendo, MS, and Sony are, they don't do everything out of ignorance. They know a thing or two more than a bunch of internet message board geeks. I am not saying that they're perfect, just that there is reasoning behind a lot of the things that they do. Disagree with it as much as you want, but this immaturity has to stop.
Oh, certainly. They're relying on human stupidity, which is a very strong force, so of course it's going to work... that doesn't make it any less stupid, but I'm sure that a lot of the time it works.
Quote:EVERY non-essential product made in this world to sell to consumers is vying for your (the consumer's) attention. So in that broad sense, books are competing with movies, video games are competing with flowers, and bikes are competing with radios. But believe it or not, there are distinctions in the marketplace. Now I know, all of your vast knowledge on this subject which consists of five minutes worth of *somewhat* concentrated thought tells you differently, but I assure you that if you take even just one marketing and business class or seminar you will find out the same thing. Call it stupid if you wish (I won't disagree), but that is how the market works. There are very broad markets, and there are sub markets. Nintendo makes products for a few distinct sub markets, and there is enough distinction between them that they have them separated, like like Sony has all of their billion sub markets separated as well. This is not rocket science, people. I can't believe how difficult this is for some of you to understand this.
Why can't you accept that it's possible for people to understand what you're saying without completely agreeing with every word of your conclusions as well?
Quote:My point is that most people don't play games other than the likes of solitare and minesweeper on their PC.
Games like Myst and The Sims have huge non-gamer popularity. So do many other sim-style games -- look at how often things like Zoo Tycoon are on the top 10 selling PC games lists! It's not hardcore gamers buying those titles...
Quote:We'll see with The Revolution... they want to reach out to an entirely different audience with that, as well. While still catering to their devoted Nintendo fans, of course.
I very much doubt that they'll change their current approach much...
Quote:This isn't an opinion. It's a fact. Markets are separated, and more narrowly than you think.
Seriously, what research have you done on this topic? None at all, right? Of course not. I don't know why you insist that you know more about this than I do.
Then why is there so much overlap between PC games and gamers and console games and gamers that virtually everybody can seee it?
Yeah, because the line is nowhere near as sharp as you make it out to be.
Quote:Nothing is "completely separate". Flowers and bikes are not "completely separate". But they are separate enough to make companies use different marketing strategies for each sub market. This is what you cannot understand.
You continue to confuse understanding with opinion. Well, mostly... I do think that for the most part companies don't take very different approaches to PC and console game marketing. Of course, there are differences. I expect that you're mostly talking about your own experiences of PC gamers not liking console-style platformers, not having gamepads, etc, etc... and that's true to a good extent, and there are some differences in the markets, but there is indisputably a lot of overlap.
After all, numerous console games get ported to PC. They obviously sell, because console games keep getting ported to PC. If the markets really had no connection, they wouldn't port them or if they did no one would buy... but they do, because while PC gamers have some different tastes from console gamers, at heart they're all gamers so they like the same things in general.
Anyway... on the 'facts of how things are done' side, we agree more than you'd like to admit (since you wouldn't be able to call me stupid quite as many times, something that you obviously love to do)... anyway, this is about pc-versus-console, and I'll talk more about that later.
Quote:If the marketplace was controlled by the hardcore gamer, guess what would happen? Gaming advertisements would be gone for good (I know, a tragedy). Seriously, when's the last time you ever cared about a game ad? You know what you're going to get months before a game comes out. You count on impressions and reviews (from pros or your friends) to decide on what games to buy. The ads mean nothing to you.
Of course you have to advertise if you want to sell your games... not everyone is a hardcore gamer, unfortunately, and you won't get enough sales by just targetting them if you're trying to be a very successful company. Targetting just a small market only works for very small, targetted groups like Matrix Games (who make PC wargames and sell most of their games online only)...
Quote:The same exact thing goes for all of those "exclusive for" stickers that you babies whine about so much. They're not for you! They're for the stereotypical college kid who buys Halo because he heard that it's "like the most bitchin' thing ever"!
The point of the "exclusive for" sticker to to educate the masses, for each sub market. Microsoft's data tells them that most of their XBox users do not play modern games on their PC, so they want them to know that they cannot get Doom 3 for the PS2 or Gamecube. The exclusive sticker, everything... is not for US. It is for THEM.
Correct... except for where you say that the stickers are there to educate the masses. They're not. They're there to increase sales by convincing people that this title cannot be gotten anywhere else, even if it really can (as often is true).
Quote:I'm repeating this because you still don't understand it.
I have a news flash for you guys: you are not the common gamer. Yes, that's right. You are the hardcore, and the hardcore means very little anymore. It's sad, but true. The market is not decided by you because you are a minority. The market is decided by the majority, which are the casuals. Market research has told Microsoft that most of their X-Box gamers do not play modern PC games, if any at all. This is why they don't need to make a sticker for Doom 3 that read "Exclusive on X-Box... and PC!", because their target audience doesn't care if it's on the PC or not.
The target market might well care, but MS is funding those ads so they don't want any mention of the PC made. MS cares a lot more about X-Box game sales than they do PC games (for evidence of THAT, just look at MechWarrior -- since MS bought the franchise, we've seen no PC MechWarrior games in like five years... but two on consoles.)
Quote:If none of you are willing to continue with this in a mature, intelligent manner, I will quit and leave you to wallow in your ignorance. I am trying to explain something very boring and tedious to all of you, something that you have none or very little knowledge about and refuse to listen to because, God forbid, OB1 might be right, and we can't have that. Because, of course, he never admits that he is wrong (even though he has)... forget the fact that we're huge hypocrites who can't admit when we are wrong, but that doesn't matter because we can't let him be right! Who cares if he knows more about this subject than us and is trying to give us a business and marketing lesson? I'll just cover my ears, close my eyes, and continue to troll and "debate" this in the only way I know how: by responding to one thing with something almost completely unrelated!
I know plenty, as I've shown over and over. You just won't recognize it... like in this thread. On some of these issues we actually are pretty close to agreeing, but you don't seem to notice that... you'd rather rant at my stupidity.
Really, what I'm disagreeing about is how different the PC and console markets are. You think they are more different than I do. You can cite evidence for your side (or so you say, you don't show much of it other than "I am far smarter than you and know far more than you about marketing" -- okay, so how does this apply to the PC-versus-console situation? You've talked about various things that somewhat relate to the key question, but have you directly addressed this, the main question at hand?), I can cite evidence for mine...