30th April 2005, 10:33 PM
Quote:And it'd have been just as absurd.
Your opinion on this is irrelevant. I'm talking about the reasons behind such actions and why they make sense to all of the publishers. The opinions of some hardcore gamers doesn't matter in the reality of this situation. There are dozens of things that we as hardcore gamers see as foolish, sometimes warranted, sometimes not. In this case, it may seem ridiculous but there is logic behind it if you know all of the facts.
Quote:The point is (I thought, anyway) that believing that they are different markets is believing that marketing, so DJ's point there is quite topical...
There's nothing about "belief" here. The market is decided by two things, like I said: the target audience and the actual buying audience. We, as consumers, are the reason why the markets are separated like this. The general consumer public. You're confusing the terms I'm using with advertising for some reason.
Quote:True. I guess it depends on how you want to break things down... but there are really two questions here. On the 'porting' issue, it's impossible to port a videogame to a book. The result is a completely different product. But on the 'competition' front, yeah, in the broadest sense everything that you can spend your money on is in competition... saying that one type of that is completely seperate and has no connection to another is kind of silly. What you can say is that you are targetting your product for a different market from other products... which certainly is sometimes true, but in the case of games usually not to the degree that a company like Nintendo seems to want to believe.
That is when those two things I mentioned are not in unison. Nintendo wants to target a specific audience and think one way, but then their expectations are not met. Nintendo is definitely the biggest risk-taker out of all the big publishers though, which is why they aren't on target as often.
Quote:Just proving again how bad you are at understanding what others are saying.
That didn't make a lick of sense. What I said is true: DJ (and you and lazy) are confusing my marketing speach with advertising. These are not always the same thing, but you associate the word "marketing" with "ads" so you don't understand what I am talking about.
Quote:Definitely not. Sure, console game sales are higher than PC sales. But PCs have a broader overall base, or at least the potential for one... after all, most people have a computer. Only people who want to play games have an X-Box. So while I'd expect that sales of Halo for X-Box are higher, don't think like only hardcore gamers would buy it for PC. Quite the opposite, probably... given that hardcore gamers are the most likely to want the game soon, they'd be more likely to get it for X-Box. I'd expect more of the PC sales would be from casual gamers interested because of how much press the game gets.
What does that have to do with what I said...
I said that hardcore PC gamers take up a tiny fraction of the home console market.
Quote:Nintendo is either deluding itsself or making things up. The DS is definitely in the same market as the GBA... the PSP? It's mostly in the same market but it also aims a bit older, in keeping with its Playstation philosophy. But there is no "special audience" for the DS. No more than there is for the GC in comparison to PS2 and X-Box.
Right now that is for the most part true, yes. And like I said above, that's the who parts not agreeing with each other.
But from everything that I've been hearing, Nintendo will show off products at E3 that will make it much more possible for the DS to be a true third-pillar, and co-exist with even a new Gameboy. Games like Nintendogs are supposed to attract an audience that rarely plays games, like women and non-gamers.
Quote:Console things like controls over game sales, etc only matter to developers, not people buying the games... to them they just see boxes on the shelf, both for PC and consoles. The main difference is that since PCs are all different you need to look at the system requirements. But yes, the groups consoles and PCs aim at are different, in some ways... the PC audience has more casual gamers who don't usually play games (The Sims, etc), while consoles have more casual gamers (that is people who do usually play games but can't be called 'hardcore')... but both are part of the game industry and games released on one platform DO affect all of them. Saying that they do not, or that they are distinctly different to the point where it is pointless to compare them, is a misrepresentation of the facts.
Like here.
Quote:
*sigh*
You're still not paying attention. Yes, the PC version of Splinter Cell is the best version of the game, but it "doesn't count" in the context of our conversation, which was the merits of the X-Box. The X-Box has the best versions of almost all third-party games, and you don't compare it to the PC versions for the reasons I explained above. If you still cannot understand this then oh well, I tried to educate you.
Saying "no, a different version of the game is better" when someone else says "this is one of the reasons to buy an X-Box over the other systems" is a completely appropriate response. Unquestionably, and beyond any doubt.
We were talking about exclusives. You said Splinter Cell was one. DJ disagreed, saying it's better on PC. You said 'well yes, but that doesn't matter because we're talking about consoles'... but it's the same exact game! It was designed for all systems! Saying that one version doesn't count simply because of the platform it is on is completely absurd... sure, the PC and console markets don't draw from all of the same people. But the games are the same, and lots of people (among hardcore gamers) use both pcs and consoles for games... so saying 'that version doesn't count' is just ridiculous. Of course you can compare the PC version. I can't think of any possible way that DJ's comment is an innapropriate response to yours.
I won't even start on the "education" comment at the end there. Suffice to say, it's just OB1 once again showing himself to believe that he is the perfect one who cannot be wrong and all who disagree with him are fools who must be taught the Way... it gets very old, very fast.
Sure, you might have some good points about marketing. But trying to expand that to the point where you are trying to say that you are unquestionably right about everything is ridiculous.
You know ABF, if you would put aside that exorbitant ego of yours for just one moment you might actually learn something new.
What I'm saying about the different gaming markets is absolutely true. I have my own personal gamer's perspective just like the rest of you do, but I can also look beyond that and analyze the industry and markets more objectively than you guys seem to be able to, because I've studied marketing and have considerable knowledge about how the gaming market in particular works.
In this case, this one thing that started this entire debate, you can only see it from your very limited perspective, and refuse to learn a thing or two about marketing from me in order to broaden your perspective on this. It's your loss, and this is the last time I will try to explain this to you.
For me, and for DJ, Splinter Cell can be played on any system. We can choose from any of the versions of the game because we own all of the consoles as well as a powerful-enough PC. Basically, we are buyers in just about all the gaming markets. But that's irrelevant. And the reason for that is because not every consumer is a consumer of all of the gaming markets. If they were then there would be only one market! Think about it! This topic was about the merits of the X-Box, if the system has any worth or not. I said yes, because of all the exclusives and best multiconsole ports. DJ said not as much, because much of these multiconsole ports are better on the PC. This is true!!---however, they are in completely separate markets! To 95% of the buying public out there (that is, the people who don't have a powerful PC and all of the consoles), only one or two options are available. A person is not going to buy an X-Box instead of a PC or vice versa. This is one of the ways these markets are separated. If you still don't get this, then I'm not even going to bother replying to you. I've wasted enough time trying to teach you something.