17th April 2005, 10:56 PM
Why are you making this so hard? It's a very simple principle which is obviously true. Bring a gun to the 1200s and the people will think you use magic. Give them a month and a box of rifles and they'll realize it's technology, of course, but that's not the point of the principle... you're over-analyzing it, and trying to go beyond the point where it ends (that is, the point where you explain it all to them carefully or give them a lot of time to figure everything out -- if they can! (imagine medieval alchemists (because that was their only vague analog to "scientists") with some modern scientific equipment. How in the world would they ever figure it out? They probably wouldn't, that's the answer... not without someone to explain it all to them. Of course, the level of technology is important here -- in the case of Indians with guns (and horses!), once the indians got past the initial 'They are gods!' and figured out that they were indeed human (this happened too late for the Aztec empire to survive, anyway...), they slowly began to use those tools. But at the initial contact... wow, they were in awe. These are gods come to life. (this is historical fact, DJ.)
True. And equally true is the fact that at first they thought it was magic. Of course over time people will become acclimated with it and realize it's not magic, but for a while there... magic! This will last longer if you keep the facts of how it really works secret.
I didn't say 'at all'. This makes your point here irrelevant -- sure, some older people can understand computers. But it's a scientific fact that the older you are, the harder it is for you to learn new things. You can't argue THAT. It's weird, actually... you know science, and there are so many articles out there about how older people don't understand technology that younger people do, so why are you arguing this point? You should know it's true! You even admit it, mostly... you're just trying to argue that there are exceptions. Well yes. But the exceptions are just that -- exceptions. They aren't the rule, not by a longshot.
I didn't know who said it or the name of the law before someone else said it... I'd just heard the law and recognized it for the obvious truth that it is.
Quote:And do you have evidence of this? Look, as I pointed out, the native americans actually learned, even though they had no idea of the processes beforehand, how to build and operate fire arms. They eventually were able to figure it out.
True. And equally true is the fact that at first they thought it was magic. Of course over time people will become acclimated with it and realize it's not magic, but for a while there... magic! This will last longer if you keep the facts of how it really works secret.
Quote:The idea that a culture, simply due to preconceptions, is simply incapable of changing at all no matter the data is to say that humans are not capable of change. That's simply not true. Over the course of a century, my great grandmother has gone from a childhood of complete ignorance of anything close to a computer to playing computer solitaire when bored.
I didn't say 'at all'. This makes your point here irrelevant -- sure, some older people can understand computers. But it's a scientific fact that the older you are, the harder it is for you to learn new things. You can't argue THAT. It's weird, actually... you know science, and there are so many articles out there about how older people don't understand technology that younger people do, so why are you arguing this point? You should know it's true! You even admit it, mostly... you're just trying to argue that there are exceptions. Well yes. But the exceptions are just that -- exceptions. They aren't the rule, not by a longshot.
Quote:Alright, I looked it up myself. Turns out this Clarke is actually Arthur C Clarke. Well, no wonder you were hesitant to tell me who it was or the proofs, he's a science fiction author and these are his odd views on reality! The other 2 laws, which are basically to the effect of saying "everything is possible" more or less fly in the face of science, which very often lists what is and is not possible. He seems to like it when a scientist says something can happen, but seems to be fundamentally opposed to anyone saying that something can't happen. More than that, he offers no real evidence of any of it. They are just his personal views on the world, as a sci-fi author.
I didn't know who said it or the name of the law before someone else said it... I'd just heard the law and recognized it for the obvious truth that it is.