Story and Games

[A Black Falcon]

This coming from the guy who likes minimum interaction in terms of controls when it comes to rpgs. Click here, click there. Wee.

And no, you could not have done MGS2's story with people standing around and you choosing what line to say.

First part: There is a difference in interactivity between the two kinds of controls, but it's small, and each one has its uses. In an RPG, I'd generally like to be able to choose either one.

MGS: First, since when does having choices necessrially mean everyone stands around? Second, a lot of MGS's story -- the comlink stuff -- IS done in a static form! A lot of that would be PERFECT for having choices of what to say!

Actually it's the opposite; there's barely any story until the end of the game, and the story that's there is boring. Even the designers talked about how they shouldn't have held back the story for so long.

KotOR2? I haven't played it yet...

I called you an idiot for saying that reading descriptions of something is a type of "visual image". In the case of something like Zork, it reads like a book. BG does not, for instance.

Remembering that argument is why I said that Torment is closer to being a book than BG was.

I love how you completely ignore the whole point of what he said. Read more carefully:

"Things like facial expressions and body language enable us to communicate the story in a massively different fashion, making it much more immediate and personal than what's been possible before."

I haven't played a whole lot of TLJ, but it doesn't tell its story through little sprites standing motionless while text scrolls over their head.[quote]

TLJ has 3d characters in rendered backgrounds... but they're somewhat simple 3d characters, it being a 2000 release. As Tornquist implies there, a lot of the story details are done in the words (everything is voice-acted, though, like most CD-based classic-style adventure games) more than facial expressions or gestures or something... he's obviously trying to change that to some degree in Dreamfall.

[quote]And look again at what Avellone said:

"There are all sorts of events and wonders you can describe solely with a text story, but without the technology, animation, and a powerfully presented world, it's just going to be a bunch of text."

That's what BG is, basically. Sure there are nice visuals in the game, but when it comes to the story you see guys standing around with a bunch of text scrolling above there heads. It's completely static.

Yes, he does say that. But then he says this...

I don't think technology has ever gotten in the way of storytelling, and I think Infocom games are the proof of that. Even as simple as they seemed to be, as long as text could be presented on the screen, you could bring across a powerful story experience even without graphics or a 3D engine. I guess in the end, I think technology can only enhance the story experience (facial animations, voice acting, animations, fully realized world, scripted reactive elements, physics-based engines, etc.).

which goes the other way. I'd say my original charitarization ('conflicted') is about right -- better graphics help, but good things were possible before then too.

As for BG, so the story is presented in text. So? Thousands of games had stories presented mainly in text, including numerous great ones! So it's potentially slightly "less interesting". So? If it's done well (like in BG) that is not a problem. Sure, emotions and stuff would be nice. But the game doesn't hurt for not having them.

Don't confuse what Kojima said to mean that he thinks that technology isn't important to tell a story. What he means is that technology is just a tool, that the story has to be there before any graphics get involved. The same goes for a movie. Without a good story, the tools are meaningless. A story can survive with limited tools but the reverse is not true. His games are a testament to this.

Well then, that's different... so the story DOES matter? But I guess that if the technology doesn't suit your needs, you consider that irrelevant... so it'd be more honest, it seems, for you to say 'it needs both story and graphics'. Otherwise you wouldn't be going after games like BG or Torment anywhere near as hard, because you'd acknowledge that they tell great stories, no matter how much you disagree with the presentation.