24th March 2005, 5:36 PM
Awesome article. My favorite bits:
Totally agree with that. Smart man.
Very well said. What an inspiration Kojima is.
Another great quote.
Totally agree with that. That's why I want to make games. It's the new frontier! :D
Man, and again Kojima takes a somewhat vague, abstract feeling that I have and explains it in perfect detail. Love the guy.
Amen.
Damn, that's like a smarter version of the stuff that I preach to people all of the time. This guy is awesome.
Hmm, very interesting.
Indeed.
Hahaha!
He continues:
Take THAT, comics-haters!! I'm looking at all of you. *narrows eyes*
Heh, well said again.
I agree with all of these people. They make very different points, but they fit the same basic opinion: most game stories suck, but there are exceptions.
Another great quote from Tørnquist. That's exactly how I feel. Man, this guy is great.
Oh and btw, Hideo Kojima just sky-rocketed up my "Super-Fucking-Cool-Person-O-Meter", and he was already up there with the best. Just look at his choices:
Music: Bloc Party, The Music, New Order
Awesome. Especially New Order.
Authors: Dennis Lehane, Greg Rucka, F. Paul Wilson, Jack Ketchum, Hiroyuki Kurokawa. "Once I get hooked on a writer, I read all of his/her works."
Greg Rucka has written some really great Batman comics. :)
Movies: Old Boy by Chan-wook Park
Hell yeah!
Tim Shafer has great taste, too:
Authors: "Anything by Raymond Chandler, or Jim Thompson. Kurt Vonnegut was extremely influential in my formative years. Haruki Murakami's Wind up Bird Chronicles. And I can't pretend I don't read all those damn Harry Potter books!"
Nice. Murakami is one of my favorite modern authors.
Movies: Directors David Lynch, Coen Brothers, and Wes Anderson. Casablanca, The Road Warrior, Yojimbo, Drugstore Cowboy, Repo Man, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Sweet Smell of Success, Memento, The Big Sleep.
He likes the same movies that I do. Awesome. :D You people would be wise to watch all of these movies. Kojima's excellent choice included. ;)
And I'm liking this Ragnar Tørnquist fellow more and more. Look at his movie list:
Movies: "All time favourite? E.T. It makes me weep like a baby every time I watch it. South Korean cinema is definitely on top of my must-watch list right now, with movies like Old Boy and A Tale of Two Sisters--top notch stuff. There's some great stuff coming out of China, Japan, and Mexico as well.
Two brilliant minds recommending the same movie that I've been praising all over the place. These guys are too cool for words.
Great article!
Quote:Ken Levine:
...
Again, for me it's rarely story per se, but the unique moments of gameplay storytelling. I loved the beginning of Beyond Good and Evil and how they defined Jade's character. You meet her by seeing her environment. She's living under an alien dictatorship, and she's built her home into a makeshift orphanage. As you walk around her house you see why she's a hero, how much the kids love her and why her life is important. By the time any real gameplay happens, you want to protect her, you want to help her succeed.
And the whole thing is done with almost no actual dialogue.
Totally agree with that. Smart man.
Quote:Hideo Kojima: There are two types of games. The first type is games as toys (play things)--the Nintendo way of thinking. The second type is games in which you assume the role of a character who is not you and experience the life of that character virtually. When trying to assume the role of a character, you need a setting. It does not necessarily have to be a storyline. You need a minimum setting to become that character.
However, being given a simple "container" (i.e. the role) is not enough to share the life of that character. Even if you are assigned the container of a police officer, if you are given 100 percent freedom, you are no longer a cop. In order to simulate the life of a cop, one must provide the player the sequences of a cop, the people he/she should be meeting, and the drama of a cop. Virtually experiencing all of these elements interactively allows you to experience someone else's life, just like when watching a movie.
In addition, a game will be monotone if the player is simply required to accomplish the assigned goal.
By adding the element of "infiltrate enemy territory without being discovered and save the world" to the simple rules of "hide and seek" (i.e. "do not get found"), you get to experience much more thrill.
Unlike film and novels in which you experience the story, in games I simply add the "story element" so that the player can enjoy the virtual experience.
Very well said. What an inspiration Kojima is.
Quote:Ragnar Tørnquist:
...
Of course, with games--unlike movies--mechanics can be enough, if the framework is interesting and the gameplay unique. Take Katamari Damacy, one of last year's best games: It's all about the gameplay, and it's hard to relate on any level to the story, although you could argue that it serves to establish context and motive. We understand why we're rolling stuff up. We might not care, because the very act of rolling is interesting in itself, but if we look for context and motive, it's there.
Another great quote.
Quote:Chris Avellone:
...
I find writing for games interesting because I think games are the next untapped ground for storytelling. It's an interactive entertainment experience, so instead of passively watching a movie or reading a novel, you are actually interacting with the story, which I think is the next stage of entertainment evolution.
Totally agree with that. That's why I want to make games. It's the new frontier! :D
Quote:Hideo Kojima: If you want to simply tell a story, you can create a film or write a novel. In a game, you can move around in the provided world freely and experience what goes on, within the limits set in that game. It is active involvement as opposed to bystanding. Even if what is provided to you is a temporary personality (of a cop or someone else), you get to "move" interactively based on your own will. What you see, hear, and feel are of a much greater impact than in film or novels. It is like your being able to do as you wish as an actor in a film. With film, all you can do is watch someone else acting. What I do is create games and not create stories. I merely include story elements that are necessary for the game to work.
Man, and again Kojima takes a somewhat vague, abstract feeling that I have and explains it in perfect detail. Love the guy.
Quote:Ken Levine: The only reason they're interesting is because they are interactive, and they can change. Let's face it...nobody has to create great visuals in a movie. You can find thousands of unemployed great visuals working in restaurants and coffee houses all over Los Angeles. But we don't have great faces and scenery just sitting there. We have to make everything we have. And that's a hell of a lot of work.
Amen.
Quote:Ragnar Tørnquist: Every medium has its strengths. Games, I think, combine the best of all worlds: movies, music, literature, performance arts, theater. And it's still a medium in flux, which makes it malleable in a way that other media aren't.
I'm not saying movies or literature are stagnant, but the formats are established. A movie has to conform to certain established parameters.
Games, on the other hand, are still at a stage where everything is possible.
Damn, that's like a smarter version of the stuff that I preach to people all of the time. This guy is awesome.
Quote:Hideo Kojima: I don't think storytelling and technology are related in any way. Detailed expressions (including facial expressions) and gestures make it easier to show subtle emotions, but this has nothing to do with storytelling.
Hmm, very interesting.
Quote:Ragnar Tørnquist:
...
Things like facial expressions and body language enable us to communicate the story in a massively different fashion, making it much more immediate and personal than what's been possible before.
Indeed.
Quote:What would you say to someone who told you that games have universally terrible stories?
Chris Avellone: I'd say game stories can be a little formulaic at times and a little unpolished, but then I would point up at the sky and say, "Holy s***, look at that!" And when they do, I would punch them in the gut, and while they were gasping for breath, I would lean down and go, "You are wrong. There are several games with compelling stories, stories that achieve greater strength because it's a story you can interact with. Thus, the experience is even more personal than reading a novel, where you are basically watching the characters go about their adventures without any participation from you except flicking your eyes across the page." At this point, the person would be about to get up, so I would kick them in the shins and then run.
Hahaha!

He continues:
Quote:I will also say that people tended to denounce comics and graphic novels for quite some time, but I think some of the best stories I've ever read have come from graphic novels--DC's Vertigo line comes to mind, which really put Neil Gaiman, Garth Ennis, and Grant Morrison into the limelight. Graphic novels are a lot like games in some respects, considering it's a fusion of art and story without the interactive element that technology provides.
Take THAT, comics-haters!! I'm looking at all of you. *narrows eyes*
Quote:Hideo Kojima: I would agree with that person. It is weird that there is a "Best Story" category in video game awards.
As I said previously, the story of a game is only one component of the game design. The story should not be evaluated on its own.
Heh, well said again.
Quote:Ken Levine: I'd hand them a copy of X-COM, Civilization, Beyond Good and Evil, Half-Life 2 and tell them to talk to me after they've had a go.
Tim Schafer: Oh, hey. That was me wasn't it? I just said that. Yes, I would say 99.9 percent of writing in games is terrible. And what's left--the part that is good writing--half of that is ruined by nonprofessional acting.
I agree with all of these people. They make very different points, but they fit the same basic opinion: most game stories suck, but there are exceptions.
Quote:Ragnar Tørnquist: I'd say they were partly right, but that they probably need to play more games. The stories aren't necessarily terrible, but they often suffer from bad pacing, poorly written dialogue, clichéd characters, lack of motive and context, and so on--much like most Hollywood movies, then. But that's the thing: Hollywood isn't the be-all and end-all of movies. Independent cinema is going strong, and there's a thriving audience for movies with low budgets but great stories. The economics of game development mean that there are very few independent games being produced, and the blockbuster is becoming increasingly ubiquitous. The problem with the blockbuster is that it has to appeal to everyone, and it has to fall within established genre parameters. The price tag is so high that it must be an easy sell, or no publisher will risk putting millions of dollars into it.
To answer your question: Yes, for the most part, games have bad stories. Even great games have bad stories, but that doesn't stop people from buying them--not until they have a choice.
Another great quote from Tørnquist. That's exactly how I feel. Man, this guy is great.
Quote:Ragnar Tørnquist: The two aren't mutually exclusive, but you have to be constantly aware of the implications of every design decision, which is why it's hard for writers who aren't also game designers to write a game. Which is why we sometimes end up with subpar stories, because most game designers aren't good writers.
Quote:Do you agree with the sentiment that who we are is just a factor of what we like? If not, what else can you tell me about yourself?
Tim Schafer: Uh, no. I think not. Because what makes you happy does not necessarily relate to what is going on deep inside. Also, regardless of what kind of personality you have, really great art can cut through all that and reach many different kinds of people. So lots of different people can like the same things.
Ragnar Tørnquist: Despite the fact that I'm freakishly tall, I manage to blend into most crowds by virtue of my chameleon-like demeanor. Around the office, I'm known as an expert juggler and a skilled mime. In 1978, I played an important role in the Nicaraguan revolution. I have an enormous collection of Vietnamese bottle caps in my bedroom. My first spoken words were "vorsprung durch technik." And I lie constantly to cover up for the fact that I'm actually an unbelievably dull person.
Oh and btw, Hideo Kojima just sky-rocketed up my "Super-Fucking-Cool-Person-O-Meter", and he was already up there with the best. Just look at his choices:
Music: Bloc Party, The Music, New Order
Awesome. Especially New Order.
Authors: Dennis Lehane, Greg Rucka, F. Paul Wilson, Jack Ketchum, Hiroyuki Kurokawa. "Once I get hooked on a writer, I read all of his/her works."
Greg Rucka has written some really great Batman comics. :)
Movies: Old Boy by Chan-wook Park
Hell yeah!
Tim Shafer has great taste, too:
Authors: "Anything by Raymond Chandler, or Jim Thompson. Kurt Vonnegut was extremely influential in my formative years. Haruki Murakami's Wind up Bird Chronicles. And I can't pretend I don't read all those damn Harry Potter books!"
Nice. Murakami is one of my favorite modern authors.
Movies: Directors David Lynch, Coen Brothers, and Wes Anderson. Casablanca, The Road Warrior, Yojimbo, Drugstore Cowboy, Repo Man, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Sweet Smell of Success, Memento, The Big Sleep.
He likes the same movies that I do. Awesome. :D You people would be wise to watch all of these movies. Kojima's excellent choice included. ;)
And I'm liking this Ragnar Tørnquist fellow more and more. Look at his movie list:
Movies: "All time favourite? E.T. It makes me weep like a baby every time I watch it. South Korean cinema is definitely on top of my must-watch list right now, with movies like Old Boy and A Tale of Two Sisters--top notch stuff. There's some great stuff coming out of China, Japan, and Mexico as well.
Two brilliant minds recommending the same movie that I've been praising all over the place. These guys are too cool for words.
Great article!