BG&E again

[OB1]

Pod is more fun than most racing games out there. That's what counts. The net play was awesome, the downloadable tracks are great, but what matters most is if it is fun... and Pod is. All you have to do is accept that its sense of speed is somewhat lacking and look at the track designs... you clearly couldn't do that, but some people can and they recognize it as the good racing game that it is.

Whenever I post and say any good things you do not respond to them and only respond to the bad things so the good part quickly gets dropped from the discussion. I am absolutely sure that when I first talked about BG&E after getting it I talked about good things too, but "discussion" with you quickly drops such things... you only care about bashing my criticisms.

Also, I have not been purely critical even just in this thread. I've said plenty of ways where BG&E is better than other games (for instance, how I initially criticized the combat in BG&E but then after playing SFA I realized how much worse it could have been and that it wasn't so bad after all... simple, but effective. The lack of difficulty is the true problem there. Though a little more complexity would be nice... more than one button you have to use most of the time to do combos, etc...)... but in BG&E's case the main reason I have focused on my criticisms is because the game got such high praise from people here and the gaming media that since my opinion was a bit different (not totally different, as I'd still give it at least an 8/10!) that I wanted to focus on that part...

If you want good parts, though. It has a nice world, good graphics, good voice acting, good characters, a nice sense of humor, decent combat, and fun enough dungeons... and the main real problems are because of having the PC version (related either to the poorly ported controls or the fact that the framerate sometimes struggles on my quite old videocard -- especially in the hovercraft in some areas...). It really is a fun game. Why haven't I finished it? I don't know, I don't finish a LOT of games and that isn't exactly always a reflection that they are bad... yes, I have criticized the game, and in places where I think it can be justly criticized. The focus on that really is probably a reflection of the fact that after so much hype I was expecting great things and got good ones.

I'm glad you finally admit that the PC version is ass. Why on earth someone would play a Zelda-like game on the PC is beyond me. You're nuts.

Thinking about my last post I realized that I said that about SFA but forgot to explain... I meant to say more. SFA's plot is indeed kind of stupid. It's lacking in details and explanations (like how the planet can eject those big parts and they orbit with gravity and atmosphere etc...), and it serves to a large extent to explain why you need to collect more things to be sure, and yes it is not as good as BG&E's, but at least it is consistent with the kind of game that it is trying to be. That's a simple game and it has a simple plot. BG&E is a more complex game made simple which should have more.

I don't know if you're just plain stupid or just plain stupid. BG&E has a fairly simple plot that's told extremely well. That's why everyone praised it. Now you're trying to say that it fails because the plot is supposed to be complex but ends up being too simple??

Look, I know that they want a simple game. But everything I am thinking of does not require a full rewrite of the game. For instance, the Alpha Sections should be breaking up the protests that occur in town. You don't need to go for full realism and stuff, but they should be breaking up the protesters regularly. Also, as the game progresses you MUST have come to the attention of the Alpha Sections. When you go to town the soldiers should be trying to catch you... yes, that would be annoying, so have some excuse to get them away... a rebellion, disguises to infiltrate the town (that's a good idea actually), etc... In addition they need to show more secrecy and caution on the part of the rebels. There is slight mention of it but the game pretty much ignores it... you get into this rebel group really easily and they talk about cells but given how they have contacts straight to the governor... well it seems like if many more groups do as well it's a house of cards predicated on the idea that their calls will never be intercepted... silly... even IF something happens later in the story it'd be hard to explain why it'd happened as it had before. I think the problem is (on this matter) that the world they created has so many more possibilities to be more dynamic and open and they designed it like any past console game... static and not believable. Obviously you were able to just overlook things like this and get enveloped by the game's great artwork, sense of style, speech, etc, but they bugged me and hurt my appreciation of this very storytelling that you are saying I am ignoring...

You didn't even finish the game, stupid!

Now, I don't know most of your references (just LOTR and To Kill a Mockingbird), and I have only played a very little of Ico, so I have trouble understanding exactly what you think is good storytelling for games. On that note... Lord of the Rings has a simple plot? No. No, it does not. It may have a simple theme (though that is debatable), but it has a very complex and intricate plot and world.

LotR has a very simple plot for how long it is. That doesn't mean that it lacks depth, which is why you are so confused. It has a simple plot (trouble in land, ring needs to be destroyed, people destroy ring), but its execution is what makes it so complex. All of those other examples are the same. Simple plots, complex execution.

BG(I) vs BG&E, though... I don't like that comparison. I would rather compare BGII and BG&E since BGII is so vastly improved in storytelling over the original. But even so it's very hard since they are so different in almost every way. It's hard to compare things that have almost nothing in common! I could compare them (and started to), but then I realized that it's pointless. We do not agree. I do not consider having to read lots of text boxes bad storytelling. I care more about the story that is being told. Now, if that story is boring then yes that is poor storytelling, but it isn't poor storytelling just by the fact that you must read text boxes. It'd be nearly impossible to voice everything in a BGII, after all, so something must go (KotOR does it by reducing the amount that is said and not voicing aliens. And because it's Lucasarts-published and if there is one thing Lucasarts does well it is sound.). Now, I like voice in games for sure, but I don't consider it a breaking point for game fun, and I don't understand why you seem to. Yes, it improves immersion. That is true. But there are so many other factors that deserve equal treatment...

Yes, you'll say 'you don't understand', or that I am wrong. Then you'll probably mention voiceless Ico... but Ico doesn't have text-boxes either really, just visuals. What can I say about Ico? Not much, though of what I have seen I can say that it's got beautiful visual style and very nice artwork in a fun-looking puzzle game...and that if it is the style telling the story that in that case it could work with how well done it is there. But there are many ways to tell a good story... Ico does it through art. Most do it through more conventional means, with conversation probably being the main one...

ICO does not tell its story through art.

Now, I remember your complaint about Baldur's Gate (how the game has lacking visuals that don't show emotion or much detail and the text just gives what they are saying not any narration), and I guess that that is true... but for me, it just is not a problem. Yes, BG&E does a great job of setting the scene and presenting a world in images as well as in words, but...

Well, I've said it a million times before about your opinion on Baldur's Gate and I still think that it is accurate.

"Imagination". Use some, and BG's minor "issues" on this matter become irrelevant. If you believe in it it will be engrossing. You will yourself not to so of course you dislike it!

Wow, what a great idea! I bet imagination will also make Superman 64 a good game, since I can imagine good controls and awesome graphics! You're a GENIUS!!