25th November 2004, 2:04 PM
Quote:Yeah, minor wonders might just deserve a static picture like Civ III has... they aren't Great Wonders of the World, after all. But the major ones should. Oh, and exclusive units from wonders? Neat, it's a decent extension of what wonders have done before...
As for Barbarians, of course you don't get maps or tech. There are a lot of them so if you got tech from them it'd be horribly unbalancing... I would not want to see that. Gold and occasional units are fine... and probably more accurate, too... It's wiping out villages of barbarians and scattering the survivors... now, I will say one thing -- these should stop in the later times. Once it's the modern age, there is little excuse to say where barbarians would be coming from... but even if the world was fully explored in premodern times because of the technology differences it'd be definitely possible to have barbarians. But a stop to randomly spawning barbarians at some point would be good, if it's not in the game already... it's clear that you wish they had more of a role in the game, but think about this. Suppose that they make them a stronger part of the game. You'll probably ask for more... so why not just go all the way and say where this line leads: you want more opponenets in the game and eight isn't enough. Maybe that isn't a complete picture of your opinion, but if you implement everything you say the line between barbarian and civilizations would be quite blurred indeed... and the point of having the civilizations seperate is to note how they are different (and they are, in real history too! Perhaps tribes are undervalued here, but the game is about lasting culture and that comes from civilizations, not barbarian tribes). Also, cities for barbarians wouldn't make as much sense. Most of them didn't really HAVE big cities, just scattered tribes... which is the point of all the small villages and randomly generated barbarians... and also a lot of them would not use diplomatic channels. Look at history! Barbarian invasions into civilized lands happened constantly. If anything the biggest problem in the game isn't not giving them enough diplomatic options, it's not making them powerful enough to take over cities... because in real history that happened all the time (and then they would get assimilated into the population of the region, generally, making a somewhat different but still mostly based on the past civilization culture)
Along those lines though, there should be trade with barbarians (this is a definite historical fact) and perhaps in later times some simple kinds of peace treaties... though they should break them all the time in most cases, I think (and if they don't you can, which would impact your international diplomatic rating a whole lot less than breaking a treaty with a real nation).
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In History many of the barbarians become advance modern civilizations, Like our ancestry from germanic or gealic tribes. Sorry I just love Barbarians.
In CivIII I just dislike the fact the computer or yourself can just send a few axemen or whatever around the place and try snag every village you can find and get tech and bonuses right off the bat without having to earn anything, Those who do have generally a larger technological edge which is hard to catch up too.I think it would be more fare to force them to atleast earn it and prevent instant tech and give other Civs more time to try to take it rather then first come first serve.
What I suggested waisnt a city but just a big settlement , They could attack and harrase like they already do , But atleast you would be abled to bribe them if you cant combat them at the imediate time , Maybe they could allow them to capture cities from you.Then you have too negotiate for them to return it or just beat them out ,Have them take slaves or raid your city run off with food out of the grannary which would cause your populations to temporaily starve.
The difference with Minor races , Is that they dont progress or really acomplish anything on their own, They are just animals you can make into pets and teach tricks. You wouldnt see very many if any in the later ages since they would all be assimulated wiped out or conquered. having minor races join you would add too your game standings. I dont think they would distract you from real opponets to much , Like in BOTF They never really exspand past were they are first put on the map.
If you were very advance they might see you as gods and automatically do your every bidding.I bet you would have to be in the industrial age and have big bombs and fancy magical like powers atleast in the eyes of the primitives, I dont think their tech and merc would really matter at that point so its less of a bonus later on.
As I can remeber Barbarians desapear once no civilization on that continent or peace of land is below the industrial age.