EGM scores. Some pretty big games.

[OB1]

First, games have visuals too. Sure, not real-life-quality, but they do. Like the sets in a film or the surrounding descriptive words in a book they describe the scene. In some games words themselves are also used -- see adventure games and their 'Look' commands, or the textual descriptions you will sometimes find in RPGs (in or before conversations). So you are trying to make a distinction here that does not really exist. Between the images and the words (that weren't supposed to be dialogue), I'd say that conversations in games can be every bit the equal of conversations in books or movies. So no, I am not going to just submit to the idea that because you say so it is So like you essentially say in the reply before that one.

I was hoping that you would reply like this. :)

Yes indeed, video games are a visual medium! And because of that, you need to present stories visually! In something like Reservoir Dogs you have very long scenes just with people sitting around talking to each other, and it does it very effectively. Just like Baldur's Gate! However--and I stress that you pay the utmost attention right here--in Reservoir Dogs we get riveting performances from the cast. It's not just static figures with word balloons over their heads, it's several fine actors delivering their dialogue (i.e. presenting it). It is the execution of the dialogue that makes the movie so good, not just the dialogue itself! Without all of these elements 'Dogs would not have been a good movie. I really hope you understand what I'm saying now. I'm just trying to enlighten you on this subject, so I hope your ego doesn't get in the way of seeing that I'm right about this.

Ico sold poorly... yeah, thought it might have, helps prove that point of mine.

Your point was that games cannot tell good stories because those types of games generally don't sell well is for the most part true, I never contested that. But that very same point only proves my point since BG is a great-selling series. :)

And you ignore my point about other media formats, which was the whole focus of those paragraphs (and the ones before them)!

I actually did address those points. Please tell me what you think I didn't.

I wouldn't know because I haven't played all that many comic book games and have read probably even fewer real comic books... maybe it's not true, but for the ones that do come over it seems like they usually try to convert it decently.

Oh, and it probably shouldn't surprise you that I've never heard of those comic books.

No, it doesn't. :D There are some good humorous comic-inspired games I've played, but no serious ones.

So how about a response to the point I was making? You almost completely dodge the issue...

How did I dodge your issue? You said that there aren't many games that can compare to "high literature". I said that that wasn't the point.

You state things in very certain terms that leaves little room for assumptions.

I can't be held responsible for your wild train of thought.

And I found Grim's gameplay fine... different from other adventure games I had played, mostly (I had played some where you controlled the character with the arrow keys and typed in commands -- in this regard Grim wasn't so much breaking new ground (except for the head-look thing, that was new) as it was redefining old ideas with its control scheme), and the uniqueness was interesting. Interesting you'd say that, I'd think you would prefer it given your strongly worded statements in favor of direct controls that you'd love Grim's control scheme... if you mean other aspects of gameplay (ignoring story, setting, controls, etc), I'd say Grim plays just like most of the other LA adventures I've played.

... enough for now, I'll deal with the rest later probably...

I did enjoy the direct controls, but it doesn't have the best gameplay of all adventure games.