EGM scores. Some pretty big games.

[OB1]

No, no, to make it good it'd be more of a game done LIKE a book... when done well it would of course implement graphical elements. Let's take Fire Emblem... that has a lot of story that is presented with static character pictures and background setting images to supplement the conversation. This could be done with just words (and would be in a book), but I'd still call the game much more influenced by books than anything else for how it does the story, in many regards at least.

There's pretty much just dialogue in FE, like a movie. There's no narration.

There are far too many people out there who love PC RPGs for their stories for your attack to mean anything other than a statement of your dislike of reading text in games...

Of course there are many people who love the current, archaic method of story-telling in games. I even said that very same thing. You did not read what I wrote, so do so again.

And did I ever say anything about disliking text? No. Again you are not paying any attention.

And your attack on game stories would be more sane (maybe a bad phrase to use... you do have some good points among the bad ones...) if not for the fact that some of the games you attack are actually at the forefront of doing exactly what you suggest. What do I mean? Oh, I'm sure you can see it coming... ahem, Torment. Utterly brilliant, as literate as anything in the fantasy field (pc or no)... you'd probably hate it though because the primary way it tells the story and describes the world is through text and conversation. (but you know what? Here's a stunning thought: books have text in them. Yup, seriously, they do! Can you believe it?

Wow, what a great point! Hey do you know what else uses text? The ingredients panel on my peanut butter crunch box! Can you believe that??

... that is to say, calling games where you have to read (and in Torment's case respond) bad for that fact is the same as calling books bad because you have to read them...)

I love it how you take certain parts of my posts out of context and put them in ones that fit yours. I never once said that text is bad, I said that the method and execution of the story-telling in these games are bad.

It's got more reading text than any game I have ever played. But you know what? Where a BG might leave me a bit bored (like with reading all of those Forgotten Realms history books you could find in the BG games -- I did not read them all as it got dull), Torment never did. It's too well done. I would also call it a model for games as being influenced by books -- well written and with a deep, complex story, but also with lots of player interaction -- it's not just clicking the button to scroll through the text. You respond and what you hear is shaped by how you do that. You can only slightly change the outcome, but you can change how you go through the game and what you get out of it to a great degree. So I'd give it as a model for both books-in-games and for making the elements you take out of other forms of media into something unique for games -- something that involves interactivity.

Yes, in the majority case games have not progressed to the point that you suggest. Baldur's Gate? They are extremely, extremely well done games, with a great fantasy story, but they don't serve to advance fantasy in general. Fantasy gaming they did, because BGI in particular did what hadn't really been done before, but compared to books, it suffers despite its good qualities... I'd say BG is a perfectly good work of D&D fiction, but admittedly definitely doesn't go into the realm of great literature or something.

Fallout... hmm, classifying that game in this is hard. It's not Torment (then again nothing is), but it's definitely above BG. The setting is more unique (post-apocalyptic), mainly, which leads to a very different kind of game especially when combined with the amount of non-linearity and choice they allow -- while in BG you really cannot be evil, it's easy enough in Fallout and at plenty of points in the game you must make moral choices which will definitely affect how the game progresses, while still staying in a cohesive narrative (which is the flaw, from a storyline perspective, of a game as open-ended as The Elder Scrolls -- the narrative gets lost in the open-endedness).

There is very little in the way of actual narratives in these games you love. Like I said, you know nothing about this subject and until you do you will only make yourself look like the sterotypical nerdy gamer who thinks that their immature games weave great, epic tales. Unfortunately you represent most gamers out there who refuse to let their tastes grow up.

Grim Fandango? It was certainly a fantastic adventure game, but I don't know if I'd put it on a pedestal way above some others. If it is to be mentioned you would have to cite a good portion of the adventure game genre (not surprising, being the genre most impacted by books). That one is my favorite, and is a good choice to mention when talking about advancing stories past the usual gaming stuff, but I'd also probably want to mention more... especially Lucasarts ones. Yes, they are different kinds of games that would fit into other categories, but I have to say 'Curse of Monkey Island'. And 'Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis'. Maybe (non-LA) The Longest Journey and Beneath a Steel Sky, as well... not quite as sure about those two, though they are great games with very good stories.

Grim Fandango's execution is like no other adventure game's that I have played. Not only is the plot interesting but it's told in a way that blends film conventions and aspects that only games can offer quite seemlessly.