"So what if it sold horribly? It was a darn good game, so we're making sequels!!"

[A Black Falcon]

Missed this post before... :)

Dark Legacy got 51 and 59 [Xbox and GC versions] from Game Rankings. Not too high. That's the only Guantlet game they list, btw.

Anyway, Guantlet's a fun arcade style game that you can spend 20-30 minutes playing when you feel like it, but really you just can't compare it to a game like BG&E. They're just way too different.

Gauntlet Legends for N64 got a 72.6. It got 73.5 for Dreamcast. As for Dark Legacy, I can see why it would score lower -- it isn't a massive step up and it clearly does not push modern hardware, innovate, or even have all new levels and stuff. But it did get a 67.3 for PS2...

As I've said before I'd rate Gauntlet higher, like in the B to B+ range (though I have entertained thoughts that it deserves an A- before). That's about the same range that I'd put BG&E in, so score-wise, for me I think that that was an appropriate comparison. But you are right, they are very different games and directly comparing them is hard. You are also right that Gauntlet is best in small doses... I usually find myself, when I play it, playing just a couple of levels (considering how long levels take...). It can get a bit tedious after maybe an hour or so. BG&E isn't really like that. But Gauntlet also has a lot more replay value and is definitely a longer game than BG&E... they are different. But you have to try to score them somehow.

This reminds me of a story I once read, a story about a little boy who thoughts lots of cappy things were really good because some stupid people liked them, and based all of his opinions around this idea. And by all I mean only some of them, and only sometimes. You see, this little boy was a huge hypocrite who sometimes liked to objectively call things bad while at the same time complained when other people did similar things. This little boy didn't really look at things objectively all of the time, just when it suited his arguments. This boy was hated by many, and came to become Hypocrite-Man, defender of the innocent... and defender of the guilty when he decided at that particular moment that defending the innocent would hurt his argument.

I hope you've understood the moral to this story.

Standard "OB1 proves how stupid he is" attacks on games OB1 dislikes. The only thing it proves is how closeminded you are about what game quality is. "If I don't like it IT IS TERRIBLE" is a truly idiotic way of telling which games are good, and it is very, very sad that you can't see it. Well, it's sad the 1% of the time that it isn't incredibly annoying... it's the fact that you so absolutely react against anything you dislike with not even a shred of questioning about if anyone else's opinions could possibly have any validity to them that makes people not like you, OB1. :)

You're not listening to me, ABF. You've completely ignored all of the time I put into explaining good story-telling to you, everything about presentation, pacing, etc. If you refuse to pay attention to me then I'm just going to start ignoring everything you write as well.

Well, for one thing you are being kind of confusing about this. I don't fully get your point(s) I guess... How about examples of games that have it the way you like it more... one problem here is that there is so many different kinds of story and how to tell it. Like, as I said, Metroid Prime and Torment can both be called to have nonlinear stories but the forms of that are so different that they have nothing in common. What, specifically, are the problems here?

Remember, this started with the discussion of PC RPGs. You said something about this and I said that that was one of your problems with PC RPGs... not liking to not have the story unmissably pushed at you. Games where it isn't a given that you will learn all of the story are what I was talking about and what I thought you were saying you disliked... like Fallout, Baldur's Gate (to a lesser extent, though -- you will get most of the story in BG I or II. You can choose to miss sidequests, though, which can shed a bit more light on some things... but you won't miss the major plot elements or explanations.), Torment... then I thought of Metroid Prime... hey, I just thought of another. How about Quest for Glory? You can beat that without doing some of the major plot elements! You can leave the major badguy in the game untouched... How about games with multiple endings and stuff? ... see what I mean, I don't really understand what exactly it is you have a problem with here?