2nd September 2003, 2:39 PM
Quote:Me and many, many others.
Oh yes, I'm sure.
Quote:If the game had no main campaign or somethign and it was just trading, then the trading would be the main game. But here, there IS a main story... sure, you can avoid it and do the trading and stuff, but there IS one if you want to finish the game... so while the other stuff is the majority of the gameplay its still optional.
That has got to be one of the dumbest things I've heard from you in a long time. Most of the people who bought this game are those who were fans of Elite and Privateer, and they got it because of the open-endedness and not for the simple story mode. There's a main story of Morrowind but I barely even touched it because it wasn't neccessary. Saying that the portion of the game that offers the most amount of playtime is just "optional" is absolutely insane.
Quote:I also liked Freespace. A lot... I have Freespace 2. Great game. And I liked some others I've played, such as Tachyon. So I would not say I have only played the X-Wing games.
So you've played three other space sims aside from X-Wing? WOW!
Quote:Privateer's combat is VERY similar to Wing Commander. Its other stuff that makes the games different... I have played Privateer 2, sp I know that.
I'm not talking about Privateer's combat. I'm very well of the fact that Privateer's combat is just as dull as Wing Commander's, but that wasn't the main draw of the game and it has nothing to do with this debate.
Quote:Oh, and most standard flight sims have that in common -- you fly, turn, find and target enemy, chase them (generally on the radar, since they quickly go off screen), shoot them when the target light lights up... learn to lead targets... each game of course makes the experience different in many ways, but that's the formula. And its a very good one that works well...
It's an archaic formula that is not fun anymore.
Quote:As for Freelancer, the combat IS insanely simple. That's not just based on my impressions -- its also based on reading reviews of the game. They all say that the combat is very, very simple... not that that's necessarially a bad thing, because its different and can be fun, but that it is simple, mouse-driven combat. No review of the game tries to say that in dogfighting depth it matches a real space sim, because it doesn't!
That's complete bullshit, but I expect as much from you. The combat isn't extremely complex, of course, but it is many times more complex than the Wing Commanders of this world. There's no power management to make things "complex" but the raw dogfighting is unparalleled. It's extremely fast and gets very tough a little while into the game, and certainly puts down the very slow, boring combat of games like Wing Commander and TIE Fighter to shame.
Quote:If you like FPSes, or dislike the genre, I would expect people to really like the combat... if you like the genre I'd think people would tolerate it but not like it a lot... but you seem to prefer it to standard combat in this genre. Strange, given how its simpler and less immersive and everything else... the rest of the game looks quite good, but the combat? Tolerable... but not that great.
Oh please, like you know anything about combat in games. You like the ridiculously simple and tedious combat of Oni, you actually bought Mace for the N64, you enjoyed that crappy, mindless shooter Serious Sam, and you've never played a game with a complex combat system for more than a couple of hours in your entire life. The X-Wing series does not have complex combat. They have somewhat complex power and weapons management during combat, which while being done during combat is almost seperate from it. Your idea of complex combat is something very simple (look, shoot, turn) but with something complex added to it (like power management). If F-Zero had complex power management then it would simply have more complex power management, but certainly wouldn't be a deeper racer than Gran Turismo since GT's racing requires more skill in terms of braking, sliding, and handling.
Quote:Now... the combat well may be deeper than Wing Commander. But that is hardly something to be so proud of, given how Wing Commander is one of the most action-focused and simplistic games in the genre...
Boy, you sure stick to your views alright! Just a few posts up you stated "Even Wing Commander has more complex combat than Freelancer... it has VERY simple combat", which is the exact opposite of what you are saying right now. It's obvious that you're unsure of your opinion and really don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Quote:But deeper than X-Wing, Freespace, or something? No way!
Power management aside, yes.
Quote:You make it sound like you look in space for the other ship, when all you do is track it on radar and turn towards the dot... turn, fire, accelerate, fire, turn, brake (if you're going a lot faster than them you've got to slow down to be able to hit them much...), etc... switch weapons, reinforce weak shields...
And this is from your what... two hours of demo playtime? Listen buddy, maybe it would be good for you to actually know what you're talking about before you get into an argument. Having to argue with someone who has such little knowledge about the thing he is arguijg about is extremely tiresome. You almost never know anything about the topics you are arguing about.
Quote:Or, of course, in the missions I'm in in TIE Fighter, stay way away and shoot missiles at them (gotta love the Missile Boat missions...).
Unlike, correct. Freelancer is unlike standard combat in the genre.
Better? Not in a million years.
Right, because you can't fire missiles in Freelancer! No sirree!
Really, how much longer can you go on? This is far worse than any debate I've had with nickdaddyg. At least he admitted that he knew nothing about the subject at hand once in a while.