7th August 2003, 10:23 PM
What the bloody hell are you going on about? I never denied a split between the east and the west! So Weltall was right, you really do twist people's words!
The schism between the western Catholic and eastern Orthodox churches predates the sack of Constantinople. It took place in and around 1058, and had much earlier roots than that (dating back to the times of the emperor Constantius in the 4th century AD). Whereas the fourth crusade doubtless made relations worse than they were, it was not the root of the split between east and west. Catholics regarded the Greeks as hellbound heretics long before the fourth crusade; there was a big deal done about whether images of men and women should be included in Christianity back around that time which caused a big ruckus between both churches; hell, the Catholics and Orthodox churches actually excommunicated each other (all this before 1204). If anything, the relations between both churches are better today than they were between 1054 and 1204.
Would the churches be reunited if the Pope suddenly apologized for the fourth crusade? Certainly not. Their differences are dogmatical (is that a word?). For a reunion of the churches the Pope would have to renounce supremacy and accept that he is only the patriarch of Rome, equal to all the other patriarches. He will never do this. If you don't yet realize why, let me explain: suppose all the history of the Catholic church was wrong, as accepting the Orthodox claims would mean. My family is traditionally Catholic, as are countless others around the world. This would mean that all my ancestors, and all the ancestors of other Catholics, are currently burning in hell for dozens of generations back. To accept this would mean rejection of Catholicism by a great majority of its adherents, unless all those clergymen found a way out like "hey it's okay if the Pope pretended to be an incarnation of St. Peter for the past thousand years which is utmost heresy if found to be untrue (which it in this case would be), your ancestors are for some reason a-ok". This is the problem between the churches, and it's a major one, much more major than any apology over old ghosts and lost land.
The schism between the western Catholic and eastern Orthodox churches predates the sack of Constantinople. It took place in and around 1058, and had much earlier roots than that (dating back to the times of the emperor Constantius in the 4th century AD). Whereas the fourth crusade doubtless made relations worse than they were, it was not the root of the split between east and west. Catholics regarded the Greeks as hellbound heretics long before the fourth crusade; there was a big deal done about whether images of men and women should be included in Christianity back around that time which caused a big ruckus between both churches; hell, the Catholics and Orthodox churches actually excommunicated each other (all this before 1204). If anything, the relations between both churches are better today than they were between 1054 and 1204.
Would the churches be reunited if the Pope suddenly apologized for the fourth crusade? Certainly not. Their differences are dogmatical (is that a word?). For a reunion of the churches the Pope would have to renounce supremacy and accept that he is only the patriarch of Rome, equal to all the other patriarches. He will never do this. If you don't yet realize why, let me explain: suppose all the history of the Catholic church was wrong, as accepting the Orthodox claims would mean. My family is traditionally Catholic, as are countless others around the world. This would mean that all my ancestors, and all the ancestors of other Catholics, are currently burning in hell for dozens of generations back. To accept this would mean rejection of Catholicism by a great majority of its adherents, unless all those clergymen found a way out like "hey it's okay if the Pope pretended to be an incarnation of St. Peter for the past thousand years which is utmost heresy if found to be untrue (which it in this case would be), your ancestors are for some reason a-ok". This is the problem between the churches, and it's a major one, much more major than any apology over old ghosts and lost land.
You wanna ride, baby?
This is a special car.
Two accelerators... no brakes! Yeeeah!
-- Zodiac Mindwarp / Backseat Education
This is a special car.
Two accelerators... no brakes! Yeeeah!
-- Zodiac Mindwarp / Backseat Education