29th April 2013, 10:49 PM
Quote:You're just restating your claim that it was "completely random with no hints" even though I told you exactly what the hints were. If you got stuck, that's fine, but you didn't need a guide online to get through that. Why would you think to dash into a bookshelf to knock down a book on top of it? Why wouldn't you? Does the game need to have a fairy guide say something like "There is a BOOK up there, if only we had some way to RAM into the shelf we might be able to get the BOOK to fall down!" Excuses? EXCUSES? I just listed my entire train of thought, and apparently that is an excuse now. Oh well.Most of the things you're calling hints really are nothing of the sort. I mean, so there's a book up there... so? You may think of it, or may not. But if you don't, a game like this sure won't be of any help.
And on that note, people complain about how modern games have too many hints... but then get stuck, or miss things because they don't know how to do things, because they weren't paying attention or something. And I often mean the same people. I mean, for developers, they're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place -- on the one hand, if they fill it with hints, people will gripe, but on the other hand, if they don't, people will complain. Which is worse? I don't know. Some very careful balance of the two, I guess, but that's hard to get right, of course.
Quote:Light arrows were as easy for me to find as the level 4 sword. The hint as to what you needed to do was fairly clear there, though it was a long process to "unlock" every step along the way. The fat fairy hidden behind the pyramid door? That might have been tough if you forgot about the bomb shop, I must confess. However, if you kept checking back up on that bomb shop through the game, you would have seen the "big bomb" for sale. The pyramid crack you'd been struggling to break open was sure to spring to mind once you had it. Why would you check the bomb shop? The owner states repeatedly that you SHOULD check back as his/her stock may change. Once you get IN that crack, you should have been instantly reminded of the lightworld upgrade waterfall. Remember that? You tossed the boomerang in there and got a magical one in return so long as you were honest. Since this waterfall works the same way (you select an item to throw in from your inventory), you should be trying to toss all sorts of different items in there. There is a glyph you see in the pyramid after the first time you fight Ganon that tells you you "need the silver arrows".Sure, you might think that you might want to go in the pyramid. But that the pyramid has a REQUIRED item in it, that you can't get without a semi-hidden item, (the super-bombs)? That is not hinted at, most certainly not. You either have to get lucky, or use a guide.
Quote: Well, what better place to look for them than the pyramid itself? Why wouldn't you try those arrows? I mean, yes, it isn't spelled out for you, but all the clues are there for anyone with clarity of thought to figure out.No, I don't see any connection between the pyramid and "oh of course the arrows are going to be there." None. It's randomly placed, and hidden behind a wall that you might give up on trying to get through, since nothing else seemed to work on it. And there are no clues to its location.
Quote:Oh and as for the ice rod, that IS spelled out for you, as long as you talked to Sahasrala after beating the first dungeon.The FIRST dungeon? Who cares what he said after the first dungeon? The item isn't required until pretty much the LAST dungeon! That is, at the bottom of one of the last dungeons in the game. And your excuse is that many, many hours earlier, you got an extremely, extremely vague hint, maybe dozens of hours earlier in the game? Oh come on. That is NOT decent design.
Quote:That old man specifically says "head to a cave by Lake Hylia, there is an item there you need." When you look for this ice cave, there are signs indicating where you are. Actually getting the ice rod isn't that complicated a puzzle. You can see the chest from one side of the cave, and all you need are bombs to open the other side. I got the ice rod on my first time through long before I even got to the dark world, much less before fighting that double headed elemental rock snake.I didn't even notice that cave until after going into an FAQ to find where the ice rod was, and even then I was wandering around back and forth around Lake Hylia for quite some time before I found the stupid thing... there are so many things in that area that it could be, how am I supposed to know which cave is being referred to, or which item? There's no possible way to know that he's actually referring to something you NEED, or that cave versus any of the other things in the area either!
And of course, as I've said before, the absolute worst part of it is that the stupid rod is only required at the very bottom of one of the last dungeons, at a point where, if you don't have it, you have to REDO THE ENTIRE DUNGEON just because you don't have a VERY easily missed item you'll surely need a guide to find. That is terrible game design!
At least with the Book of Mudora, all you do without it is just wander endlessly around that desert...
Quote:I was joking about ya there, but really, all you need is a clear head and a sense of adventure and you can find everything you need.A sense of adventure is fine, but that's not the kinds of things you're talking about...
Quote:The only things I ever needed a guide to find were two pieces of heart I was missing. As it turned out, I just hadn't examined my surroundings enough to realize that a few places in Death Mountain could be reached by making some leaps of faith. Your examples are exactly the point I was making before. I would actually champion those as examples of EXCELLENT puzzle and exploration design, not "randomly placed things with no hints" at all. I vehemently disagree with all of these examples, and that's not just me "making excuses" for them. I really DID solve them all with exactly that train of thought, I really did NOT use a guide nor just explore randomly and "retroactively" append a solution after the fact. These are nothing like that annoying bridling the snake puzzle from King's Quest II.I'd say these parts of LttP are just as bad as things like the desert in KQ5.
Quote:It is odd, the one puzzle that Nintendo saw fit to "simplify" in the LTTP rerelease is one you never complained about, the ice temple's block puzzle. That one was tough, I can admit. It took me some time to figure it out on my own, but it WAS doable, and it was entirely a spatially based puzzle that was possible for anyone to noodle through, given enough time and concentration.That puzzle was fine. A bit tough, but it's an actual puzzle. "Have this item we randomly hid off on the side near the entrance to a dungeon you went to hours ago and could have very easily missed, or you can't progress in the game" is not a decent puzzle. It's just poor design. The two things are entirely different. (Remember, the Water Temple was my second favorite dungeon in OoT! I don't mind some decent puzzles in a dungeon.)
Quote:I never had an issue with sword length. The first sword was short, but upgrades gave it some length. It was also a wide swing. I tended to stun someone before hitting them with the sword, or charging up a spin slash which had a wider attack range. I've played some interesting games with far shorter swords swing animations and much smaller "time windows" where the swing registers as a "hit", so maybe that plays into why I find the swing to be just fine. But yes, Link in LA does swing a much larger distance.Wide? It's not wide compared to LA... you don't have nearly the range or width of swing. In LA you go all the way from the side to the front, but in LttP he sort of waves it in front of him. Not nearly as generous. You are right that there are games out there that are worse, but LttP's isn't that great.
Quote:As for art, well, I guess I just have to disagree there. LA is a very nice looking game, don't get me wrong, but LTTP is also lovely to look at.The only Zelda game Nintendo's made with worse character sprites/models than LttP is Minish Cap, I think...