23rd June 2012, 9:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 23rd June 2012, 10:57 PM by A Black Falcon.)
This isn't an anime review, but it is anime-related.
Something that annoys me a lot about anime and manga (and videogames) is their incoherent world design. You see, what I really want to see, but often don't, is internal consistency. That is, for the story to make sense within its own universe. And yes, anime and manga ignore this most of the time, to my frequent frustration. Of course as you said later (also quoted below) this is hardly only a Japanese issue, but it is very common in their stuff certainly.
One of the most obvious places where I see this is in Japanese fantasy stories in anime and manga. While Western fantasy has its ridiculousnesses, like chainmail bikinis and such, anime fantasy is so so so much worse... they basically usually do zero historical research, and have no clue about what time period or kind of place the thing's actually set in, so instead you get a lot of random stuff. Many of these elements have become expected over time, so by now the generic anime fantasy world has elements from ancient Greece and Rome, the Middle Ages, the 16th-19th centuries, the modern Western world, traditional Japan, and modern Japan, all at the same time. It's so, so bizarre. I could go on for a long time about how many things Japanese fantasy gets ludicrously wrong from any standpoint, historical or consistency-based, but I'll try to avoid the temptation. There are too many things to list. Let's just say that anime fantasy has just about nothing at all to do with the actual Middle Ages, and anime fantasy worlds generally make absolutely no internal sense either.
So why is that? Part of the reason for the first of those issues is that Japan is of course not Western, so they don't have the same amount of historical context we would for our own history. This makes sense, and as supporting evidence anime/manga series set in ancient Japan or China have a much higher likelihood of being at least vaguely plausible than ones set in fantasy European settings are. Of course there are plenty that are ridiculous, but at least by looking at the other stuff, you can tell that they know that stuff's wrong, they just want to make this thing silly. I don't usually get that sense from fantasy stuff; there's no inkling that they have any idea how absurdly stupid their settings are. I mean, I'm sure they know that they're not historical, but do they really get the degree? I would imagine the answer in many cases is no. As for the other side, Western stuff set in ancient Asian settings isn't as far wrong as Japanese stuff set in Europe is, but it certainly is usually missing a lot of the details an Asian setting would have.
For the second issue, internal sense, this is really the main problem. I mean, if you're making up this world that's a mishmash of stuff from throughout history, okay, go ahead. We've done it too -- some of the games that helped inspire the JRPG genre, like Wizardry and Ultima, have sci-fi/fantasy mixtures for plots. That stuff can't have been a good influence. :p The problem is when it makes absolutely no sense when you think about it. And in fantasy anime/manga, that's usually exactly how it is. From small details to large, nothing is anything like a plausible world. This is a problem Western stuff definitely shares sometimes -- I absolutely agree, Firehawk, about Stargate SG-1's major flaws in its "conspiracy" plotline, it's really a big problem and absolutely hurt the show a lot for me as well -- but it's probably even worse in fantasy anime and manga.
Like, I was reading this one fantasy manga recently, and it actually pointed out that peasants in this world don't have meat very often, to the great frustration of the spoiled prince traveling the world. Good, accurate point there, and something almost never seen in fantasy series; usually they have modern-day-style restaurants, complete with menus (as if their clientele can read! :lol), with modern silverware and dishes (which didn't exist in the middle ages), etc, and then paste in a "medieval" setting that is clearly just paper-thin. And costumes... oh man, anime fantasy costumes. Where do they get that modern cloth, those plastic-based fabrics like modern bathing suits or elastics, zippers, etc, from? Certainly not from the placid, medieval towns you often see in those worlds! Need I even continue? :lol Even town designs and landscapes are absurd. Look at the cities in the Slayers anime for instance (overhead shots particularly which show the towns), all those houses spaced out nice and neatly... it's quite comical really. And for one you commonly see in fantasy from both regions, but maybe even more so from Japan, do I even need to comment on how stupid it is to see all these industrial, or early-industrial, worlds with their factories, and giant airships, and what have you, where everyone still fights with swords? I know the reason -- Japan likes swords -- but it's obviously silly. Some kinds of swords and pikes were common in European warfare until the early 1800s, but as the period from 1450 to 1850 progressed, guns became the dominant weapon in more and more fields. I mean, I've got nothing at all against medieval weapons, they just should go in medieval SETTINGS darnit, not these silly pseudo-Victorinan/21st century Japan hybrid settings that often pass for fantasy anime... (and yeah, I won't get into it, but both the West and Japan seem to have strong Victorian-period-love going on... but in Western stuff Victorian periods aren't fantasy ones, they're quite different (Steampunk, more likely), while Japan randomly mixes in plenty of stuff from that era into its fantasy. You can't mix that many elements without, at some point, completely breaking any possible hopes for a world that makes any kind of logical sense at all. And indeed, anime fantasy worlds usually aren't, with their modern stores and modern values co-existing with people fighting with swords and supposedly feudal politics (when they don't randomly have guns from that random lost civilization or techno-empire which has modern weapons while everyone else is fighting with sticks, as if technology can improve that fast... no, that's not how it works! And yes, I love Escaflowne. But that element of its plot is complete nonsense, Newton or no.).
Now, sure, as I said, if you can come up with reasons for why your world isn't like the real one, I have no problem with differences. Like, magic's fine; there are ways to explain such things in a fantasy world, certainly. Similarly, I imagine excuses for at least some of the elements of fantasy costuming could maybe be explained away if one tried, though they'd probably be weak. The problem is, this stuff rarely even CONSIDERS such issues. Not a single thought to proving internal consistency. Look at Soul Calibur for like a million and ten examples of such things, and the ridiculous costumes are only the most obvious of the issues -- the deeper problems of things like why the Greek characters are apparently all pagans, when the ancient pagan Greek religion had ceased to exist by, oh, about 1000-1200 years before the series is set, for only one example. Her costume's out of date by over a millennium, and her religious values are equally impossible. Nobody in 16th or 17th century Greece was wearing Ancient Greek robes like Sophitia's SC3-5 costumes are. No one, and they hadn't been for a very long time.
Of course Soul Calibur costumes are virtually never in any way accurate, and fail every fantasy-costumes test I mentioned in that last post, but that time differential is even bigger than putting modern costumes in a game like that; modern costumes are only ~450 years out of date, after all, ancient Greek ones are more than twice as far off. So in both beliefs and in looks, she's not a plausible character. They should have just invented some fantasy world from the series, trying to set it in the real world, mentioning bits of actual history here and there, and then completely ignoring it the rest of the time doesn't make any sense.
Oh, and I haven't mentioned how much longer it'd take to travel around the world back then than these games suggest, when in one game you start in Japan and end up in Europe and then go back and forth several times and the game acts like almost no time passes... :lol I know, videogame logic, but the issue is that they set it in something that's supposedly the "real world", and then take off in random, nonsense directions without ever actually trying to give any kind of explanation for things. I know that's not the way anime fantasy does things, and that's not always how western fantasy does things either, but while I can enjoy things that ignore those things -- I do like the Soul Calibur series, for instance -- this stuff bugs me for sure.
What's the excuse for this stuff? "That's how anime fantasy works, and we're just going by the book" is the general excuse, and it's not the worst excuse -- indeed, that is what the market wants to see, so I can understand following the usual conventions because they're what people want to see. I like some of that stuff too... I mean, I do love fantasy settings. But for accuracy, the place to go is Western fantasy books. Not TV shows, those are often off... books are the best. And there are a LOT of very accurate Western fantasy books. Now I don't know if Japan has anything similar, in light novels or full novels or what have you, but if it does, it doesn't make very many showings in manga or anime, that's for sure (though more in manga than anime probably).
In conclusion, yes, I'm a history major, and fantasy is my favorite genre. And that's why I hate anime and manga fantasy settings almost as much as I love them.
Something that annoys me a lot about anime and manga (and videogames) is their incoherent world design. You see, what I really want to see, but often don't, is internal consistency. That is, for the story to make sense within its own universe. And yes, anime and manga ignore this most of the time, to my frequent frustration. Of course as you said later (also quoted below) this is hardly only a Japanese issue, but it is very common in their stuff certainly.
One of the most obvious places where I see this is in Japanese fantasy stories in anime and manga. While Western fantasy has its ridiculousnesses, like chainmail bikinis and such, anime fantasy is so so so much worse... they basically usually do zero historical research, and have no clue about what time period or kind of place the thing's actually set in, so instead you get a lot of random stuff. Many of these elements have become expected over time, so by now the generic anime fantasy world has elements from ancient Greece and Rome, the Middle Ages, the 16th-19th centuries, the modern Western world, traditional Japan, and modern Japan, all at the same time. It's so, so bizarre. I could go on for a long time about how many things Japanese fantasy gets ludicrously wrong from any standpoint, historical or consistency-based, but I'll try to avoid the temptation. There are too many things to list. Let's just say that anime fantasy has just about nothing at all to do with the actual Middle Ages, and anime fantasy worlds generally make absolutely no internal sense either.
So why is that? Part of the reason for the first of those issues is that Japan is of course not Western, so they don't have the same amount of historical context we would for our own history. This makes sense, and as supporting evidence anime/manga series set in ancient Japan or China have a much higher likelihood of being at least vaguely plausible than ones set in fantasy European settings are. Of course there are plenty that are ridiculous, but at least by looking at the other stuff, you can tell that they know that stuff's wrong, they just want to make this thing silly. I don't usually get that sense from fantasy stuff; there's no inkling that they have any idea how absurdly stupid their settings are. I mean, I'm sure they know that they're not historical, but do they really get the degree? I would imagine the answer in many cases is no. As for the other side, Western stuff set in ancient Asian settings isn't as far wrong as Japanese stuff set in Europe is, but it certainly is usually missing a lot of the details an Asian setting would have.
For the second issue, internal sense, this is really the main problem. I mean, if you're making up this world that's a mishmash of stuff from throughout history, okay, go ahead. We've done it too -- some of the games that helped inspire the JRPG genre, like Wizardry and Ultima, have sci-fi/fantasy mixtures for plots. That stuff can't have been a good influence. :p The problem is when it makes absolutely no sense when you think about it. And in fantasy anime/manga, that's usually exactly how it is. From small details to large, nothing is anything like a plausible world. This is a problem Western stuff definitely shares sometimes -- I absolutely agree, Firehawk, about Stargate SG-1's major flaws in its "conspiracy" plotline, it's really a big problem and absolutely hurt the show a lot for me as well -- but it's probably even worse in fantasy anime and manga.
Like, I was reading this one fantasy manga recently, and it actually pointed out that peasants in this world don't have meat very often, to the great frustration of the spoiled prince traveling the world. Good, accurate point there, and something almost never seen in fantasy series; usually they have modern-day-style restaurants, complete with menus (as if their clientele can read! :lol), with modern silverware and dishes (which didn't exist in the middle ages), etc, and then paste in a "medieval" setting that is clearly just paper-thin. And costumes... oh man, anime fantasy costumes. Where do they get that modern cloth, those plastic-based fabrics like modern bathing suits or elastics, zippers, etc, from? Certainly not from the placid, medieval towns you often see in those worlds! Need I even continue? :lol Even town designs and landscapes are absurd. Look at the cities in the Slayers anime for instance (overhead shots particularly which show the towns), all those houses spaced out nice and neatly... it's quite comical really. And for one you commonly see in fantasy from both regions, but maybe even more so from Japan, do I even need to comment on how stupid it is to see all these industrial, or early-industrial, worlds with their factories, and giant airships, and what have you, where everyone still fights with swords? I know the reason -- Japan likes swords -- but it's obviously silly. Some kinds of swords and pikes were common in European warfare until the early 1800s, but as the period from 1450 to 1850 progressed, guns became the dominant weapon in more and more fields. I mean, I've got nothing at all against medieval weapons, they just should go in medieval SETTINGS darnit, not these silly pseudo-Victorinan/21st century Japan hybrid settings that often pass for fantasy anime... (and yeah, I won't get into it, but both the West and Japan seem to have strong Victorian-period-love going on... but in Western stuff Victorian periods aren't fantasy ones, they're quite different (Steampunk, more likely), while Japan randomly mixes in plenty of stuff from that era into its fantasy. You can't mix that many elements without, at some point, completely breaking any possible hopes for a world that makes any kind of logical sense at all. And indeed, anime fantasy worlds usually aren't, with their modern stores and modern values co-existing with people fighting with swords and supposedly feudal politics (when they don't randomly have guns from that random lost civilization or techno-empire which has modern weapons while everyone else is fighting with sticks, as if technology can improve that fast... no, that's not how it works! And yes, I love Escaflowne. But that element of its plot is complete nonsense, Newton or no.).
Now, sure, as I said, if you can come up with reasons for why your world isn't like the real one, I have no problem with differences. Like, magic's fine; there are ways to explain such things in a fantasy world, certainly. Similarly, I imagine excuses for at least some of the elements of fantasy costuming could maybe be explained away if one tried, though they'd probably be weak. The problem is, this stuff rarely even CONSIDERS such issues. Not a single thought to proving internal consistency. Look at Soul Calibur for like a million and ten examples of such things, and the ridiculous costumes are only the most obvious of the issues -- the deeper problems of things like why the Greek characters are apparently all pagans, when the ancient pagan Greek religion had ceased to exist by, oh, about 1000-1200 years before the series is set, for only one example. Her costume's out of date by over a millennium, and her religious values are equally impossible. Nobody in 16th or 17th century Greece was wearing Ancient Greek robes like Sophitia's SC3-5 costumes are. No one, and they hadn't been for a very long time.
Of course Soul Calibur costumes are virtually never in any way accurate, and fail every fantasy-costumes test I mentioned in that last post, but that time differential is even bigger than putting modern costumes in a game like that; modern costumes are only ~450 years out of date, after all, ancient Greek ones are more than twice as far off. So in both beliefs and in looks, she's not a plausible character. They should have just invented some fantasy world from the series, trying to set it in the real world, mentioning bits of actual history here and there, and then completely ignoring it the rest of the time doesn't make any sense.
Oh, and I haven't mentioned how much longer it'd take to travel around the world back then than these games suggest, when in one game you start in Japan and end up in Europe and then go back and forth several times and the game acts like almost no time passes... :lol I know, videogame logic, but the issue is that they set it in something that's supposedly the "real world", and then take off in random, nonsense directions without ever actually trying to give any kind of explanation for things. I know that's not the way anime fantasy does things, and that's not always how western fantasy does things either, but while I can enjoy things that ignore those things -- I do like the Soul Calibur series, for instance -- this stuff bugs me for sure.
What's the excuse for this stuff? "That's how anime fantasy works, and we're just going by the book" is the general excuse, and it's not the worst excuse -- indeed, that is what the market wants to see, so I can understand following the usual conventions because they're what people want to see. I like some of that stuff too... I mean, I do love fantasy settings. But for accuracy, the place to go is Western fantasy books. Not TV shows, those are often off... books are the best. And there are a LOT of very accurate Western fantasy books. Now I don't know if Japan has anything similar, in light novels or full novels or what have you, but if it does, it doesn't make very many showings in manga or anime, that's for sure (though more in manga than anime probably).
In conclusion, yes, I'm a history major, and fantasy is my favorite genre. And that's why I hate anime and manga fantasy settings almost as much as I love them.
![[Image: logo_bos_79x76.jpg]](https://www.tendocity.net/logo_bos_79x76.jpg){kind=logo}