14th June 2009, 9:21 AM
Sorry to come in here and "cheerlead", but I agree with everything DJ has said.
How so? What sensible person would believe that someone who identifies themselves as male, and someone who also happens to have the existing physiological means to bear a child as a female does, is something out of the ordinary or any kind of biological miracle?
As far as I see it, there's little disagreement among us here that transgendered individuals have the right to label themselves as they see fit and live by the gender of their choice (it might be hard to wrap your head around the idea at first, but gender is separate from sex). The actual disagreement arises in whether it's newsworthy that a transgendered male (or would that be "transgendered female"?) is impregnated.
You seem to regard it as some kind of political milestone that this is in the news, but I just don't see it that way. That the media would report on this isn't something that will significantly help the transsexual community. A transsexual person doesn't require this kind of attention to his/her life more comfortable. The only important thing is teaching tolerance and acceptance of their lifestyles. Even gay parades are a better political gesture than this.
No one is getting smug and copping the attitude that "HAH! They're not ACTUALLY the gender they identify themselves with! They need a reality check!" We're saying that while we accept their lifestyles, it's misleading to put up a headline that implies that a person born with functionally male genitals is pregnant. The only reason anything physical is getting dragged into this discussion is how the headline can be misleading and read as something newsworthy, while in reality, the context certainly stamps out the excitement of the idea that such a physical anomaly could occur. That's it. Don't read too far into it or stuff words into our mouths. This entire argument is based on a strawman. This is more about opportunism in the media and baiting us into reading/listening to their content, not so much about transsexual rights.
A Black Falcon Wrote:A transexual man having a baby is, however.
How so? What sensible person would believe that someone who identifies themselves as male, and someone who also happens to have the existing physiological means to bear a child as a female does, is something out of the ordinary or any kind of biological miracle?
Quote:You're absolutely correct. That's exactly why it is such an important issue -- because of how much it matters, and how important labels are.
As far as I see it, there's little disagreement among us here that transgendered individuals have the right to label themselves as they see fit and live by the gender of their choice (it might be hard to wrap your head around the idea at first, but gender is separate from sex). The actual disagreement arises in whether it's newsworthy that a transgendered male (or would that be "transgendered female"?) is impregnated.
You seem to regard it as some kind of political milestone that this is in the news, but I just don't see it that way. That the media would report on this isn't something that will significantly help the transsexual community. A transsexual person doesn't require this kind of attention to his/her life more comfortable. The only important thing is teaching tolerance and acceptance of their lifestyles. Even gay parades are a better political gesture than this.
Quote:Of course you're right that we can't actually change someone's genes from XX to XY (or some rarer one that causes the kinds of gender uncertainties to a 'normal' one, should such a person actually desire it) can't be done, and we can't make a man into a fully functioning woman and vice versa. But really... at this point, THAT IS NOT THE POINT of getting transgender rights. You're looking at the whole issue completely wrong, focusing on the physical instead of the mental... but as humans, the mental is probably the more important aspect. The focus is on FEELING like the gender someone wants to change to -- with hormones and lifestyle, primarily.
No one is getting smug and copping the attitude that "HAH! They're not ACTUALLY the gender they identify themselves with! They need a reality check!" We're saying that while we accept their lifestyles, it's misleading to put up a headline that implies that a person born with functionally male genitals is pregnant. The only reason anything physical is getting dragged into this discussion is how the headline can be misleading and read as something newsworthy, while in reality, the context certainly stamps out the excitement of the idea that such a physical anomaly could occur. That's it. Don't read too far into it or stuff words into our mouths. This entire argument is based on a strawman. This is more about opportunism in the media and baiting us into reading/listening to their content, not so much about transsexual rights.