Pikmin + Fable + Dungeon Keeper = Overlord

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, and what I remember from when I rented Pikmin 1 was wishing that it was more complex because it was so simple that it was kind of boring in comparison to a 'real' strategy game... I can't say whether this game is like that or not of course, but... Pikmin was okay, but there's better out there... like Dungeon Keeper for instance. Great game. :)

I also argue that Smash Bros.' elimination of convoluted control mechanisms is an improvement over other fighting games, as, in theory at least, such a reduction in control complexity if the same degree of moves are available and the same style of combat is used (parrying, combo cancelling, and so forth) makes for a better game. You however argue that the skill involved in remembering and actually pulling off those convoluted moves in and of itself makes the game more complex and is therefor better. I don't really follow that logic, but that's why we disagree.

Yeah, I'd say we pretty fundamentally disagree on this then. :)

More complexity does not make a game good, but I do appreciate complexity in games and don't like it when something that works well as it is gets simplified for no reason other than to try to attract a larger market... that doesn't mean that such games shouldn't exist, but that I like complexity.

To a degree anyway. I mean, I found Europa Universalis nearly unplayable because of how ridiculously complex it was... though I haven't played it, or any of Paradox's other strategy games (none of which I own other than that one), in years... and Age of Wonders 2 is perhaps a bit more complex than Heroes of Might & Magic 2 or Disciples II (and both of those games are less complex as well, I'd say, in some ways), and I've played a LOT more of those two games than AoW2... but even so, I wouldn't want them to simplify AoW just because I liked Disciples more. :)

As for fighting games, I also said that making the moves require complex motions adds more skill to the game. Not just complexity, but skill -- you need to be skilled in order to do the motions right. That's not true in something like SSB. As a result it's harder to get good at a traditional fighting game than SSB. Also virtually any fighting game from the past decade has FAR, FAR moves per character than the three or four unique moves that most SSB characters have, and that counts for a lot... normal attacks (SSB has this aspect), special moves (SSB has a few of these but not many), super moves (SSB and SSBM don't have this at all), super specials or whatever other kinds of unique moves the game supports (guard-breaks or whatever; SSB has that shield thing in addition to blocking for instance), etc...