PS3 sucks, XBox 360 sucks, Revolution sucks

[Paco]

And I'm saying that the lacking variety is a symptom of being behind, not a cause of it, and that if Nintendo could figure out how to come up with a first party lineup that would draw people in, the third party game numbers would go way up...

Which is why I've been saying they need to diversify their franchises and genres...this whole fucking time. Jesus Christ.

Your argument against PC games is, to say the least, highly lacking... it's about the GAMES! And anyway, some kinds of games work better in a PC setting -- strategy games, for instance. Strategy games on consoles just aren't the same... graphic adventures, too. And wargames. Etc.

I have nothing against PC gaming, I just don't care for it. Go nuts and have fun, seriously.

BTW, what the fuck is so hard to understand about NOT wanting to sit at a computer desk? WTF is so hard to grasp about liking to sit/lay on my living room floor during the small amount of time I do get to play video games?

Drop it. You haven't gained any ground here. There never was an arguement to begin with. Shit, it's kind of like someone asking you why you don't like a certain flavor ice cream (rocky road in my case). I just don't enjoy the flavor, so why would I subject myself to it?

Nintendo keeps saying that there is a problem for several reasons. First, because Nintendo thinks of Japan first and only when making its policies; they then later try to come up with ways to make those policies work for the rest of the world too. So, since Japan has a problem with falling game sales and flagging interest, much more so than the US's much earlier problem, Nintendo is moving to change things by increasing the demographic. By attracting people who don't play games or just would consider using these kinds of programs (Touch Generations mainly) on a PC or PDA or cellphone. It's working brilliantly, of course, and I fully expect (as GR said) to see Nintendo's Japanese marketshare continue to go up. The Revolution will do better than the GC in Japan by a good margin. Heck, they might even manage to turn around sales there...

The problem is the rest of the world, of course. The US doesn't have the problems Japan has nearly as bad. Oh, originality is not in good shape, and sales this year have gone down (excepting handhelds), but most people wouldn't say that there is a problem like Nintendo execs do, but they've got to act like it's worse than it is to have anything to say when dealing with a strategy designed for Japan... of course, the US DOES have problems and Nintendo's strategy could help them (expanding the market, etc), so good could come out of it, but it is true that it's a tougher sell here. Particularly when, as I said before, Nintendo's efforts to release substantive numbers of cross-generational, market-expanding titles here is comparitively limited... and their marketing... well... the less said about that the better...

I don't think there's a problem here in the U.S. As with the transition to every generation, there's a slump as the older consoles begin to dwindle out and the newer consoles are too expensive for the mass market. It's a transition, a trend.

I fully respect and applaud Nintendo's efforts to expand the video game market. I just don't buy in to their bullshit that gaming is in trouble.

[A Black Falcon]

I have nothing against PC gaming, I just don't care for it. Go nuts and have fun, seriously.

BTW, what the fuck is so hard to understand about NOT wanting to sit at a computer desk? WTF is so hard to grasp about liking to sit/lay on my living room floor during the small amount of time I do get to play video games?

I got beyond "wanting to be in some specific place to play games" a long time ago... and it was for the better (though for me, since we had PCs before any consoles, the case was different in the details)...

Drop it. You haven't gained any ground here. There never was an arguement to begin with. Shit, it's kind of like someone asking you why you don't like a certain flavor ice cream (rocky road in my case). I just don't enjoy the flavor, so why would I subject myself to it?

No, that's a matter of pure opinion. This isn't.

It just looks like you've got a completely irrational dislike for an entire segment of gaming... I just do not understand people who say that PC gaming is bad for silly reasons like yours... I mean, if it was "PC games are all FPSes and strategy games and MMORPGs and I prefer other things" that would be mostly true if we restricted the discussion to current games, but that wasn't really your case (excepting MMORPGs).

And as I said, a television, and a gamepad, quite simply do not work for some kinds of games. Though the Revolution might change that a bit... we'll see...

I don't think there's a problem here in the U.S. As with the transition to every generation, there's a slump as the older consoles begin to dwindle out and the newer consoles are too expensive for the mass market. It's a transition, a trend.

I fully respect and applaud Nintendo's efforts to expand the video game market. I just don't buy in to their bullshit that gaming is in trouble.

You simply cannot look at the state of originality in games, the current gamer demographic, the current sales trend, the question of 'who exactly are playing games and where are they playing them', and not come off with the conclusion that there is a problem... it is simply impossible...

Which is why I've been saying they need to diversify their franchises and genres...this whole fucking time. Jesus Christ.

The point is that they're doing that... but in their way, not in the one you'd prefer.

[Paco]

I got beyond "wanting to be in some specific place to play games" a long time ago... and it was for the better (though for me, since we had PCs before any consoles, the case was different in the details)...



No, that's a matter of pure opinion. This isn't.

It just looks like you've got a completely irrational dislike for an entire segment of gaming... I just do not understand people who say that PC gaming is bad for silly reasons like yours... I mean, if it was "PC games are all FPSes and strategy games and MMORPGs and I prefer other things" that would be mostly true if we restricted the discussion to current games, but that wasn't really your case (excepting MMORPGs).

And as I said, a television, and a gamepad, quite simply do not work for some kinds of games. Though the Revolution might change that a bit... we'll see...

Were in the hell did I say I have a dislike for PC gaming? As if I condemn it or some shit. I said I don't care for it.

It is a preference to play consoles. If I had more time for video games I might venture into PC gaming, but I hardly have any time to play video games these days. This last week I got to play about 3 hours. Before that I hadn't touched my PS2 for 2 weeks because I didn't have fucking time.

I don't play handhelds because I don't like holding a portable for any length of time. Next you're going to tell me that that doesn't make any sense. There are great games and I should play them whether I want to or not.

Stop.

You simply cannot look at the state of originality in games, the current gamer demographic, the current sales trend, the question of 'who exactly are playing games and where are they playing them', and not come off with the conclusion that there is a problem... it is simply impossible...

Sony created a mass market of cool gamers who buy things like 50 cents' game and Need for Speed: Driving with no Headlights. That doesn't mean original games don't sell, just not as well when compared.

The so-called hardcore is still around. They're just not as great in number, and there is more to choose from these days so not every great game is going to sell a million copies.

The point is that they're doing that... but in their way, not in the one you'd prefer.

The ONLY thing I dislike about the whole situation is that they're up and completely changing direction. I'm still enjoying the way I play games right now. I like current controllers and big epic games. I also want to try these new supposedly innovative games with a weird new controller. My question is why shouldn't I have both on the Revolution?

Why are they only trying to appeal to new gamers? Why not having something for everyone and appeal to a even wider demographic.

[A Black Falcon]

Were in the hell did I say I have a dislike for PC gaming? As if I condemn it or some shit. I said I don't care for it.

It is a preference to play consoles. If I had more time for video games I might venture into PC gaming, but I hardly have any time to play video games these days. This last week I got to play about 3 hours. Before that I hadn't touched my PS2 for 2 weeks because I didn't have fucking time.

I don't play handhelds because I don't like holding a portable for any length of time. Next you're going to tell me that that doesn't make any sense. There are great games and I should play them whether I want to or not.

I don't need to, you did it for me. :)

Handheld games are great... I've had gameboys longer than any other consoles, and have gotten many fun hours out of them... I do find myself more likely to play a handheld game when on a trip or something like that where you're away from the TV or computer for long periods of time, but a particularly good game can draw me away (Fire Emblem, for instance... such awesome games...).

I also picked up a Super Game Boy last week and was playing Donkey Kong('94)... (seemed appropriate, as the game they tried to sell the accessory based on... Still as good as ever, and that's a game that has not been matched since in its particular subgenre of puzzle/platforming... the only other title like it I know of is Mario vs. Donkey Kong for the GBA, and that one's just not as good.

Sony created a mass market of cool gamers who buy things like 50 cents' game and Need for Speed: Driving with no Headlights. That doesn't mean original games don't sell, just not as well when compared.

The so-called hardcore is still around. They're just not as great in number, and there is more to choose from these days so not every great game is going to sell a million copies.

That's missing the point though. Yeah, Sony has built a market... focusing on the male 12-to-25 demographic, or so (give or take a few years on each end). And they've done really well at it, and they surprised Nintendo and Sega because those companies greatly underestimated Sony's ability to steal it... well they did, and this is the result. But the question Nintendo is asking is 'we want to win, but can't win by just directly competing with Sony (remember, they tried that this generation, and it failed), so what can we do?' And they came up with the answer we've seen, "let's find people who don't play games and get them to buy our consoles somehow!" And so we get Brain Training.

Anyway, originality... gamers say they want original games, but original games just don't sell. Safe games that fully fit into preexisting franchises and are parts of existing serieses do sell, so they make those... whether or not the world truly needs yearly updates to three hundred EA serieses (seriously, take a few years to make each game! Make each one actually MATTER! That'd be a far better strategy for the gamer... that's my opinion, at least. The yearly sequel is a scourge...)

Anyway, I think that that includes the 'hardcore' gamers too -- ie, they make up a big portion of sales -- so if they were truly buying original titles in numbers they'd be doing better than they are. The problem is convincing people to buy games that aren't sure things, and that can obviously be tough...

The ONLY thing I dislike about the whole situation is that they're up and completely changing direction. I'm still enjoying the way I play games right now. I like current controllers and big epic games. I also want to try these new supposedly innovative games with a weird new controller. My question is why shouldn't I have both on the Revolution?

Why are they only trying to appeal to new gamers? Why not having something for everyone and appeal to a even wider demographic.

Nintendo has a point that 12-button, dual analog-with-dpad controllers are intimidating and far from approachable, though... finding the middle ground where they make approachable games while not alienating existing gamers does seem like a huge challenge, but for the most part it seems to be working on the DS (maybe a few less games the hardcore would love, but there are still more than enough to make it a system worth owning, whether or not you're interested in Nintendogs or Animal Crossing...)... I don't think they are trying to just appeal to new gamers. They've repeatedly talked about attracting new people while holding on to the hardcore, and I think they mean it; things like the download service to a large extent exist for the hardcore, after all.

[Paco]

I don't need to, you did it for me. :)

It was sarcasm. I need to work, I need to go to school, I need to pay for rent and food. I don't need to play more video games, especially those I wouldn't be comfortable playing.

Handheld games are great... I've had gameboys longer than any other consoles, and have gotten many fun hours out of them... I do find myself more likely to play a handheld game when on a trip or something like that where you're away from the TV or computer for long periods of time, but a particularly good game can draw me away (Fire Emblem, for instance... such awesome games...).

I also picked up a Super Game Boy last week and was playing Donkey Kong('94)... (seemed appropriate, as the game they tried to sell the accessory based on... Still as good as ever, and that's a game that has not been matched since in its particular subgenre of puzzle/platforming... the only other title like it I know of is Mario vs. Donkey Kong for the GBA, and that one's just not as good.

I know. I have a Gameboy Player for my GC. Like the games, just don't like the portable system. Too tiny a screen.

Nintendo has a point that 12-button, dual analog-with-dpad controllers are intimidating and far from approachable, though... finding the middle ground where they make approachable games while not alienating existing gamers does seem like a huge challenge, but for the most part it seems to be working on the DS (maybe a few less games the hardcore would love, but there are still more than enough to make it a system worth owning, whether or not you're interested in Nintendogs or Animal Crossing...)... I don't think they are trying to just appeal to new gamers. They've repeatedly talked about attracting new people while holding on to the hardcore, and I think they mean it; things like the download service to a large extent exist for the hardcore, after all.

Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sega combined have sold hundreds of millions of console with controllers that have many buttons and functions.

I think you were more on spot when you said Nintendo wants to be number one, and can't do it by simply copying what the number one company is doing.

I'll be holding on to my GC controllers, hoping they get used for some new games.

[lazyfatbum]

I found a picture of Paco.

[Dark Jaguar]

"This is a no spin zone!" A fun phrase to say to babies!

[A Black Falcon]

It was sarcasm. I need to work, I need to go to school, I need to pay for rent and food. I don't need to play more video games, especially those I wouldn't be comfortable playing.

Computers are far from uncomfortable to use... they're just different...

I know. I have a Gameboy Player for my GC. Like the games, just don't like the portable system. Too tiny a screen.

They're designed for the small screen and work just fine at that size. Bigger (GBP/SGB) is nice too, but hardly necessary...

Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sega combined have sold hundreds of millions of console with controllers that have many buttons and functions.

I think you were more on spot when you said Nintendo wants to be number one, and can't do it by simply copying what the number one company is doing.

I'll be holding on to my GC controllers, hoping they get used for some new games.

It's only recently that controllers have really gotten bloated, though... NES had four buttons and a dpad, SNES eight and a dpad, Genesis four or seven and a dpad, Saturn eight and a dpad (optional analog stick), N64 ten with a dpad and analog stick, psx ten and a dpad and then twelve with two analog sticks and a dpad... steady growth in features, and I think Nintendo is right that they've developed to a less approachable form... though their reasoning certainly is not perfect (were 'nongamers' any more likely to pick up a Genesis controller than a PS2 one because it was simpler? no...), but it's certainly a well-intentioned attempt (that tries to deal with the issue by not making it look like a traditional gamepad at all). Of course, we're used to gamepads, and Nintendo has that too (the nunchuck, the shell, etc...), but I expect a lot of first party games to just use the basic controller, as one more thing to try to attract nongamers... Sony and MS are not trying to expand the market, in comparison. Making the same thing, but more powerful, won't do anything for that... if they didn't care before, why would just better graphics attract them now? Yeah, it wouldn't.

GC controllers shouldn't work for new games, but the shell will, and what little we've heard says that it should be based off the Wavebird or something, but somehow in a way that makes it appropriate for SNES and N64 games... we'll see, I'm very interested to see what they came up with. And to know if one will be included with the system; they shouldl, if just for SNES/N64 games...

[lazyfatbum]

Even if the shell isn't included, we're talking about a 15 dollar purchase here. it's a controller that cant be used unless you slide a revcon in to it, so it will be cheap.

i'm gonna assume the revcon themselves are going to be in the 40 dollar range each. That means that at the most i'll be coming home with two controllers and two shells and probbably, one game. if rev launches at 150, with the extra controller, shells and game (and possibly a SD card) we're already looking at around 300 with tax.

[Paco]

Computers are far from uncomfortable to use... they're just different...



They're designed for the small screen and work just fine at that size. Bigger (GBP/SGB) is nice too, but hardly necessary...



It's only recently that controllers have really gotten bloated, though... NES had four buttons and a dpad, SNES eight and a dpad, Genesis four or seven and a dpad, Saturn eight and a dpad (optional analog stick), N64 ten with a dpad and analog stick, psx ten and a dpad and then twelve with two analog sticks and a dpad... steady growth in features, and I think Nintendo is right that they've developed to a less approachable form... though their reasoning certainly is not perfect (were 'nongamers' any more likely to pick up a Genesis controller than a PS2 one because it was simpler? no...), but it's certainly a well-intentioned attempt (that tries to deal with the issue by not making it look like a traditional gamepad at all). Of course, we're used to gamepads, and Nintendo has that too (the nunchuck, the shell, etc...), but I expect a lot of first party games to just use the basic controller, as one more thing to try to attract nongamers... Sony and MS are not trying to expand the market, in comparison. Making the same thing, but more powerful, won't do anything for that... if they didn't care before, why would just better graphics attract them now? Yeah, it wouldn't.

GC controllers shouldn't work for new games, but the shell will, and what little we've heard says that it should be based off the Wavebird or something, but somehow in a way that makes it appropriate for SNES and N64 games... we'll see, I'm very interested to see what they came up with. And to know if one will be included with the system; they shouldl, if just for SNES/N64 games...

In your opinion.

Thanx, but no.

I meant that including the GC controller with a Revolution might have more developers willing to make games for the system since they wouldn't be restricted ONLY to the new controller.

[lazyfatbum]

Why would you want a game that uses a GC controller when you could have the revcon? everything is possible with the revcon, there isn't a single genre invented or not yet invented that wont work with it. Any genre can be reconified, even complex arena fighters, so... why do you want devs to stick to the old thumbs and sticks?

[Paco]

Why would you want a game that uses a GC controller when you could have the revcon? everything is possible with the revcon, there isn't a single genre invented or not yet invented that wont work with it. Any genre can be reconified, even complex arena fighters, so... why do you want devs to stick to the old thumbs and sticks?

I'm still thinking my arm is going to get tired from waving the revcon around for any length of time. I usually play games anywhere from 15-30 minutes at a time, but sometimes I like to play for a couple hours.

I just think the option should be available so we can see some third party ports from other systems, that is unless they (the third party) is able to adapt the 360/PS3 game to the revcon. I don't buy alot of third party games but every now and then one comes along that I just have to have. Prince of Persia and Psychonauts are good examples.

[Great Rumbler]

Why do people keep using words like "wave"? It's a pointer, you point to spots on the screen or move your wrist slightly to perform some action, unless everything I've heard up to this point is wrong. In other words, I seriously doubt playing any of the Revolution games will involve swinging your arms around like some maniac.

[Paco]

Why do people keep using words like "wave"? It's a pointer, you point to spots on the screen or move your wrist slightly to perform some action, unless everything I've heard up to this point is wrong. In other words, I seriously doubt playing any of the Revolution games will involve swinging your arms around like some maniac.

Even having to point it means I won't be able to rest my hands in my lap like I usually do.

I'm sure it's something I'll get used to.

[Weltall]

I seriously doubt playing any of the Revolution games will involve swinging your arms around like some maniac.

That's kinda what I was hoping for. Dammit.

[lazyfatbum]

I agree that waiving around would get near carpal tunnel for someone like me who plays 4 hours a day, but based on what developers are saying you dont need massive movements for anything, just like a mouse. Plus you can probably calibrate sensitivity in the revolution itself and in the game's menu (i'm assuming, it makes sense). From what i've seen of the Revcon or revmote depending on who you talk to, it can sit in your lap and pick up the most subtle of movements, including rotation. So I really dont see a developer saying "I want to make people wave their arms around like an idiot." unless that's the purpose of the game. :D

there's an interview with Tobias (one of the mortal kombat creators) who doesn't know how to make a complex fighting game work on the revcon. but i think the question is, has he ever made a complex fighting game work with or on anything? he sums it up by saying it will either be genius and welcomed by all or a complete failure. Then there's a message board backlash of course with nine trillion ways people have come up with to play any fighting game you can imagine fluidly with the revcon and in very interesting ways. I'd like to see Namco have somethng at launch for rev, but a super smash bros will do me fine.

but there's no way a complex fighter cant be done with Revolution, so you dont have to worry about Nintendo killing the fighting game star.

[A Black Falcon]

I seem to recall reading that you could in fact rest your hands in your lap while playing Revolution... it's like a mouse. You can use mice for quite a while without a problem (oh, and as for the comfortability of using PCs, if they were uncomfortable to use people wouldn't sit in front of them as much as they do... so the chair is potentially less comfortable and you're closer to the screen. So? Comfortable computer chairs aren't hard to get, and the screen compensates for how close you sit by being smaller and really sharp (vs. a fuzzy TV screen)...). I think that that Nintendo promo video from E3 was pretty deceptive, as it showed all kinds of big movements while that's just not how things actually work...

I meant that including the GC controller with a Revolution might have more developers willing to make games for the system since they wouldn't be restricted ONLY to the new controller.

But given the whole philosophy of the console, are lots of ports from other consoles actually a good thing? Hasn't Nintendo said that if you want 'more of the same' you should get one of the other two consoles too? (yeah, I think that Nintendo's third party support level is doomed again... even if the Rev IS successful, Nintendo's stuff will dominate -- just look at the DS, where exactly that is happening. Oh well...)

there's an interview with Tobias (one of the mortal kombat creators) who doesn't know how to make a complex fighting game work on the revcon. but i think the question is, has he ever made a complex fighting game work with or on anything? he sums it up by saying it will either be genius and welcomed by all or a complete failure. Then there's a message board backlash of course with nine trillion ways people have come up with to play any fighting game you can imagine fluidly with the revcon and in very interesting ways. I'd like to see Namco have somethng at launch for rev, but a super smash bros will do me fine.

You either use the shell or come up with an innovative design. Most will use the former, a few (Smash Brothers for sure) the latter.

[Paco]

I seem to recall reading that you could in fact rest your hands in your lap while playing Revolution... it's like a mouse. You can use mice for quite a while without a problem (oh, and as for the comfortability of using PCs, if they were uncomfortable to use people wouldn't sit in front of them as much as they do... so the chair is potentially less comfortable and you're closer to the screen. So? Comfortable computer chairs aren't hard to get, and the screen compensates for how close you sit by being smaller and really sharp (vs. a fuzzy TV screen)...). I think that that Nintendo promo video from E3 was pretty deceptive, as it showed all kinds of big movements while that's just not how things actually work...

ABF...you're annoying.

I was never making a case against why people shouldn't play PC games. My arguement was why I didn't play PC games. After all you've said, my mind still hasn't changed. controller > keyboard + mouse, imho.

Deal with it.

[Great Rumbler]

controller > keyboard + mouse, imho.

For certain games maybe, but if you're going to play an FPS or an RTS, there's no better way than a keyboard and mouse. Unless, of course, the Revolution controller works as well as it's supposed to...

[Paco]

For certain games maybe, but if you're going to play an FPS or an RTS, there's no better way than a keyboard and mouse. Unless, of course, the Revolution controller works as well as it's supposed to...

FPS work really well on the Xbox and Xbox 360, imo.

I don't play RTS.

You guys are trying wayyyy too hard to make a case out of nothing.

[Smoke]

*Sniff* It's like OB1 never left!

[lazyfatbum]

gufaw

you say this now in the 1000th post that Paco trolled around in to incite arguments? though to be fair he does occasionally poost a non-argumenative post. So he's not a troll, just ...trollish.

Funny... he doesn't look trollish.

I've also decided that Paco is actually one of the following people.

A.) Ryan
B.) Mark Woodbridge/private hudson
C.) OB1
D.) A smarter less angsty version of Stealth. I'll call him Stealth SP.

if he's ryan, that would just be sad. if he's OB1, sad here too but understood. the sci-fi alternate stealth SP is cool and makes me think of Tom cruise blowing things up, but an impossibility. the only answer that would make sense is private hudson, who should be castrated through the head. And if paco is PH, then all i can say is bravo.

[Paco]

gufaw

you say this now in the 1000th post that Paco trolled around in to incite arguments? though to be fair he does occasionally poost a non-argumenative post. So he's not a troll, just ...trollish.

Funny... he doesn't look trollish.

I've also decided that Paco is actually one of the following people.

A.) Ryan
B.) Mark Woodbridge/private hudson
C.) OB1
D.) A smarter less angsty version of Stealth. I'll call him Stealth SP.

if he's ryan, that would just be sad. if he's OB1, sad here too but understood. the sci-fi alternate stealth SP is cool and makes me think of Tom cruise blowing things up, but an impossibility. the only answer that would make sense is private hudson, who should be castrated through the head. And if paco is PH, then all i can say is bravo.

I'm not any of those people, but I'm flattered you think I'm Private Hudson. Him and I go back some 5 years on the PSX2Central forums. We argued alot, and never got anywhere with eachother. We did become friends though. I haven't talked to him in quite a while, however.

Oh, and I hate Bill O'Reilly. I almost got offended when I saw that.

[Weltall]

Who are you at PSX2C?

[A Black Falcon]

PC vs. console is a stupid argument. Both are great. Both do things well. Saying that one is invariably better than the other is just ridiculous, and I mean that both ways (pc-console and console-pc)... people who deny whole categories of gaming without any kind of a good reason just don't make sense... okay, so you have limited time to play, etc. I understand that. But that isn't any justification for so stupidly go after PC games... (I know other people here also don't play PC games... again Stealth is a good example... but this goes for them too of course. :))

controller > keyboard + mouse

This is 100% dependent on the kind of game you are playing. Starcraft on a gamepad is one of the most pointless things ever, for instance, and Rogue Squadron is in that same level of uselessness when played on keyboard... or even dpad-only gamepad...

For certain games maybe, but if you're going to play an FPS or an RTS, there's no better way than a keyboard and mouse. Unless, of course, the Revolution controller works as well as it's supposed to...

OB1 had that stupid comeback about how FPSes worked on consoles because they have analog movement too, instead of digital, but as always I put a much higher importance on the actual ability to aim that you get with a mouse...

I don't play RTS.

Given how awful they are on consoles, I couldn't sanely recommend it unless you play them on PC... great subgenre though, and my two favorite games of all time (Starcraft and Warcraft III) are part of it. :)

[Paco]

Who are you at PSX2C?

Ginko

I haven't been there in months, and I don't plan on ever going back. mm being the primary reason.

[Paco]

PC vs. console is a stupid argument. Both are great. Both do things well. Saying that one is invariably better than the other is just ridiculous, and I mean that both ways (pc-console and console-pc)... people who deny whole categories of gaming without any kind of a good reason just don't make sense... okay, so you have limited time to play, etc. I understand that. But that isn't any justification for so stupidly go after PC games... (I know other people here also don't play PC games... again Stealth is a good example... but this goes for them too of course. :))

LOL

Again, and again, and again. I'm not arguing that PC games are bad. I'm just telling you I don't play them because [insert personal preferences I've given you].

If you're trying to draw me into a PC vs. Console debate it won't work, because I don't care.

This is 100% dependent on the kind of game you are playing. Starcraft on a gamepad is one of the most pointless things ever, for instance, and Rogue Squadron is in that same level of uselessness when played on keyboard... or even dpad-only gamepad...

OB1 had that stupid comeback about how FPSes worked on consoles because they have analog movement too, instead of digital, but as always I put a much higher importance on the actual ability to aim that you get with a mouse...

You and OB1 were entirely right. Halo works wonderfully on a console because it was built with a controller in mind. The same could be said for any other game that was developed with a console controller as part of the design. It works, I've played great FPS games on my Xbox. Ever play Unreal Championship 2 Lialandri Conflict? Great, great fps.

Given how awful they are on consoles, I couldn't sanely recommend it unless you play them on PC... great subgenre though, and my two favorite games of all time (Starcraft and Warcraft III) are part of it. :)

If I ever do get into PC gaming then I'll give them a shot. Although I'm a bit apprehensive given the stories I hear about people spending way too much time playing those kinds of games.

[A Black Falcon]

Again, and again, and again. I'm not arguing that PC games are bad. I'm just telling you I don't play them because [insert personal preferences I've given you].

If you're trying to draw me into a PC vs. Console debate it won't work, because I don't care.

Saying that you don't care seems to me to be making a pretty clear statement.

You and OB1 were entirely right. Halo works wonderfully on a console because it was built with a controller in mind. The same could be said for any other game that was developed with a console controller as part of the design. It works, I've played great FPS games on my Xbox. Ever play Unreal Championship 2 Lialandri Conflict? Great, great fps.

Shouldn't that be "he was right and not me", then, given that my opinion is that FPSes on consoles usually don't work? It's not one of my favorite genres and not one I play all that often, so I'm not very good at them, and I can see a big difference between aiming on consoles and on PC... without autoaim hitting things in console FPSes is useless, while on PC autoaim would be a stupid thing to put in an FPS if you wanted it to be any fun at all... (one reason why Halo PC is supposedly much easier on PC (for people who actually play those games): you can actually hit things now! :))

I own very few FPSes, and that's because of lack of interest mostly... the only true console FPS I have is PD; Metroid Prime (1) doesn't count, though my lack of FPS skills certainly does carry over into that game... so hard...

Anyway, they can be tolerable on consoles, but they can never begin to compare to the control you get from a keyboard and mouse.

Oh yeah, and of course, the Revolution will supposedly change all this... we'll see. :)

If I ever do get into PC gaming then I'll give them a shot. Although I'm a bit apprehensive given the stories I hear about people spending way too much time playing those kinds of games.

You hear that more about MMORPGs, I think... now those can get addictive. RTSes? It mostly depends on how much you like the multiplayer, I'd say... SC/WCIII are infinitely playable online...

[Paco]

Saying that you don't care seems to me to be making a pretty clear statement.

I've been saying the same damn thing this whole time.

Shouldn't that be "he was right and not me", then, given that my opinion is that FPSes on consoles usually don't work? It's not one of my favorite genres and not one I play all that often, so I'm not very good at them, and I can see a big difference between aiming on consoles and on PC... without autoaim hitting things in console FPSes is useless, while on PC autoaim would be a stupid thing to put in an FPS if you wanted it to be any fun at all... (one reason why Halo PC is supposedly much easier on PC (for people who actually play those games): you can actually hit things now! :))

I meant what I said. You're both right in a sense. Some games are better suited for the different platforms. I used Halo as an example because of the autoaim; it really helps and with time you can get really good. I haven't played it in a while now, but I used to be able to go through entire levels scoring head shots all around. It just takes practice. I suppose turning off auto aim is an option (never looked), but I imagine the same holds true that if you want to get good at it then all it takes is practice.

I own very few FPSes, and that's because of lack of interest mostly... the only true console FPS I have is PD; Metroid Prime (1) doesn't count, though my lack of FPS skills certainly does carry over into that game... so hard...

Anyway, they can be tolerable on consoles, but they can never begin to compare to the control you get from a keyboard and mouse.

It depends how much control you need. If you need lightning quick reflexes to survive, then I'd say the kb+m is the better choice. Console FPS play a bit slower though, but they're no less fun if done right (Half-Life 2, Halo, Halo 2, Doom 3, and Unreal Championship 2 are excellent on the console, imo. They all work better than fine).

Oh yeah, and of course, the Revolution will supposedly change all this... we'll see. :)

Yeah, we'll see.

[Weltall]

Ginko

I haven't been there in months, and I don't plan on ever going back. mm being the primary reason.

Ah, yeah, I remember you. I think you had a fiery clown head avatar years and years ago, possibly ICP?

I haven't posted there regularly since early 2002. Every time I go back, I never stay interested long enough to stay more than a few weeks.

[Paco]

Ah, yeah, I remember you. I think you had a fiery clown head avatar years and years ago, possibly ICP?

I haven't posted there regularly since early 2002. Every time I go back, I never stay interested long enough to stay more than a few weeks.

Yes.

Who were you?