Is Batman a Superhero?

[CoconutCommander]

Is he? I will be the devil's advocate and argue against the consensus.

[Great Rumbler]

He isn't a traditional superhero like Superman or Spiderman in that he doesn't have any superpowers and he often works outside the law to aprehend crimals. Although, I suppose you could argue that his wealth acts a superpower, as it allows him to buy tools that give him enough of a boost to fight supervillians. I'll say that he is a superhero.

[A Black Falcon]

He's close enough to be counted as one.

[Dark Jaguar]

Well, genetic abilities aren't the only things considered "super powers". Basically, anything that people in the real world can't do is considered "super". So, Daredevil, for example, while a "normal man" in that world, has trained to a level that is pretty much impossible for anyone in our world. That's why we find him interesting, and hence, he's super.

Batman has done the same level of training. More than that though, there's that utility belt. Those tools aren't just expensive, a number of them are pretty much impossible to make in our world. For example, a bomb that instantly freezes an entire river. Hence, I consider Batman to be super in the same sense I would consider Cyborg to be super.

[Geno]

Yeah, what DJ said.

Batman's a superhero, he just doesn't have superpowers that are... well, part of him. He has excellent agility and such, moreso than the average human, but I suppose if a person practiced really hard they could reach that level of skill. His utility belt is mostly what makes him a superhero though. Sure, he can't fly like Superman or create web like Spiderman, but he has a grappling hook which allows him to swing across the city in much the same way Spiderman does with his webs. And as DJ said, some of his gadgets are just impossible to make, so in a way, he is just as out of this world as Superman.

[CoconutCommander]

Spidermans webs are a gadget. Daredevil does have superpowers. Batman is not a superhero.


Im in a rush right now, but I will expand on these thoughts later.

[Dark Jaguar]

Yeah, that last one needs some serious expansion. It's more of a declaration of something that is the very topic of debate. He does all sorts of things that no one in the real world can do. If you ask me, that's all a hero needs to be "super".

[Geno]

Yeah. X-ray vision, heat ray, flight, and super strength are all great, but Batman does a lot of impossible feats too, even if they are subpar next to Superman. Besides, grab a chunk of Kryptonite and Superman is powerless.

[CoconutCommander]

Spiderman's webshooters are mere inventions, Daredevils has heightened senses and a sound-based "radar", which are powers.

Batman is NOT a superhero. He qualifies as a hero, yes, but not he is not super. Batman is just a regular man. Sure he has money, sure he fights injustice and sure he can kick ass. So does Cardinals wide reciever Anquon Boldin, he donated millions to help Katrina victims, his physical prowess far surpasses that of a average human, too. Is he a superhero? No.

What about a mask and cape? I have a mask and cape, and I know I am not a superhero (much to my chagrin). Outfits dont mean crap. Luke Cage is a superhero and he wears jeans.

Nothing Batman does elevates him above the status of hero. He is no different than a Firefighter or a Police detective, all risk their lives for the safety of the community. None qualify as superheros.

To be a SUPERhero, you need SUPERpowers.


Sorry it took me so long to get posting on this, I have been busy.

[Dark Jaguar]

Did you completely ignore what I said? Batman DOES have super powers.

As I said, just like Daredevil, he is physically honed to a point that is beyond real human ability. Just like any robot or cyborg, he has access to technology that either does not yet exist or can never actually exist in our world.

I qualify enhanced physical abilities that we can't ever have in the real world and technology that we can't ever have as super powers.

You never even once addressed that. In fact, your post acted as though that wasn't even the case.

In what way does that constitute an argument?

[CoconutCommander]

OK DJ. I DID read your arguement. I chose not to aknowledge it because you obviously do not know what you are argueing.

Daredevil is a superhuman. His powers are a result of an activated X gene. He is not a traditional mutant, although he exibits mutant qualities. Daredevil has a power similar to echo location, he can use sound to "see". That isn't a quality any human can EVER possess. EVER. Daredevil is not a regular dude. Daredevil is a superhuman.

Batman is a regular human. Batman does not exibit any physical traits that a dedicated individual could not possess, he has said so himself. For example, olympic level athletes. As for the technology...where is this technology Batman has that we do not have access to in the real world? He doesn't use it. It doesn't exist. Besides, gadgets do not mean superpowers. Batman's gadgets are not exclusive to Batman either, Robin wields them also. Is Robin a superhero?

I didn't want to call you out, DJ. You forced my hand.

[Dark Jaguar]

It doesn't matter what Batman says, we can't ever actually do all that stuff.

And if you actually think the tech he uses can exist... well...

Wait, are we even using the same definition of "real world"? I mean the REAL world, not the "real" comic book world.

Perhaps we should have a good starting point in what we define as super. Super, as far as heroes go, to me, is any hero that uses abilities we can't use in OUR world, ever. Batman is fake, what he SAYS can exist is meaningless.

By the same token, Goku isn't a super hero. In that world, ANYONE can fly or become super strong, it's just that all those abilities are usually latent until someone trains.

[CoconutCommander]

I agree on defining Super. Like you said, we will say Super is any ability we can't use in OUR world.

Goku is a superhero, he has superpowers that I could never achieve. (I don't understand how you can set the definition and then in the very next sentence contradict yourself using it. It's cool though, I had a good laugh)

It doesn't matter what Batman says, we can't ever actually do all that stuff.

What stuff? Be physically fit? or know martial arts? or maybe be a very good detective? have money? use gadgets? wear tights? have a sidekick? what can't we do?

Anyone can be a Batman. That is why he is not a superhero. Besides, I am not sure that anyone who regularly fights Superman should even be considered a "hero".

[Dark Jaguar]

You seem to be avoiding the things I said.

Batman's martial arts go way beyond what humans are actually capable of. I mean, have you actually seen the guy in action? Perhaps I should give examples. The guy can jump, from a standing position, over a story high. He can actually fight ROBOTS without breaking his hands and feet. He seems to be able to recover from pretty much any injury. He is somehow able to decipher passwords instantaneously just by looking at a brief flash of machine code on a computer screen. He can wall jump up buildings in an alleyway. He seems to be able to instantly disappear from a building without making noise.

His "gadgets" are impossible to make in the real world. That bomb that can freeze lake size masses of water instantly. Those various gas grenades on that belt that have all sorts of nigh-magical effects besides that. The grappling hook that is able to shoot higher than a skyscrapper and with enough force to penetrate concrete, but the recoil is almost nonexistant. A cape able to resist thousands of degrees of flame.

Your list, alone, isn't saying much. It's the details.

I mean, I could describe Super Man the same way. So he can jump, he can run fast, he can fight people, and he can see things. That's somehow "super"?

[A Black Falcon]

Batman's martial arts go way beyond what humans are actually capable of.

But by this standard, pretty much everyone in any martial arts movie is superhuman...

[Dark Jaguar]

Yeah, I agree. :D That didn't work out too well for you did it ABF?

[CoconutCommander]

You are being ridiculous. I cannot believe you are arguing about Batman having superpowers. This is blowing my mind. Batman HAS no superpowers. I am holding the DC Universe Encyclopedia right here in my hand and it says under powers for Batman, none. Just because the artist takes liberties with physics to create a more dynamic fight scene does not mean that character has powers. If I drew George Bush biting through steel, noone would look at my drawing and say, "George Bush has powers!" They would look at my drawing and say, "You are taking certain liberties with what you are depicting." Batman has no powers, stop this line of arguing, you are arguing against a fact.

As for the technology. Prove to me these gadgets cannot exist. Another point I will make is, gadgets do not make a person super. Iron Man isn't super, and he weilds a very large gadget. Iron man is a regular dude in an iron suit. He has no powers. He is not a superhero.

[Dark Jaguar]

Um, actually yes I would look at that drawing and say that about Bush. If you drew Bush biting through steel, people would wonder if you just drew "super bush".

And oh yes, I do not have to prove those gadgets can't exist. You have to prove they do. That's the way it works. The one making the outrageous claim has the burden of proof. Basically, what I know about engineering says they can't exist. A hookshot of the sort batman is always using would have some serious kickback on it. That's the whole "every action has a reaction equal in force but opposite in direction" thing you may have heard mentioned. You have to provide evidence to show that's not the case. You know, you were in the military. I was under the impression basic physics was something they taught you there as it just might apply to combat scenarios. I suppose that's stuff they save for the core of engineering.

As for artistic liberties, at this point it goes to a matter of interpretation. I look at it and I see that not just batman, but EVERY human in the DC universe by the extension of his abilities not being "super" to them, must have the potential to do things people in the real world can't do. You take it that when they show Batman flipping over the heads of gunmen and such, it's just artistic liberties. I suppose the argument ends for that.

[CoconutCommander]

I don't know why I feel like I am repeating myself. The gadgets are not my point, so I am not going to argue about them. Gadgets and tools are not a superpower. A hero cannot be super no matter how many gadgets he weilds. I think I demonstrated this when I brought up Iron Man.

Batman is a universally (except for you) recognized hero with no super powers. The whole idea of this thread was to see if superpowers were indeed what made a superhero super, or whether it was something else. I dont know what the hell you are trying to do. You are trying to apply some twisted logic, here. You are so desperate to give Batman powers, you are willing to say EVERY person in a comicbook is a superhero, including hotdog cart vendors. Good luck with that strategy. I am arguing with a crazy person.

Stop trying to use debate tactics and say something smart.

[Dark Jaguar]

So your entire rebuttel is just "you are wrong because I disagree"?

And no, logic is the only right method of debate, ever. Though that can be debated.

I did say earlier that if you consider a cyborg to be super powered, then batman by extension is super powered. That does require you to consider that to be the case. It is apparent you do not. I myself DO think Iron Man is a super hero thanks to that big super powered robot suit of his. I don't know all the details there, but I understand he actually controls that by remote or something. No matter. It's basically as super as a summoner.

Are you stating that a super power has to be part of someone down to the DNA? I find that arbitrary myself. My fillings are certainly something I consider a part of my body, even if a doctor implanted them. Certainly I would file their removal as bodily harm, not merely stealing.

However, again, at this point the debate turns into something a bit different. Now it's all about if you really consider super science to be a super power. I myself don't see the difference between it being connected TO the hero and being within arm's reach. If I'm using it, it's an ability. If I shoot a gun, I have the amazing power to fire bits of metal at a high velocity. In what way don't I?

Look, if you've given up that's fine, but don't get all huffy and just say "you're dumb" over and over in an attempt to win. A former member did that way too often.

...

CHECK HIS IP!