X-Box 360 backwards compatibility

[A Black Falcon]

It's emulated. For specific games. "The most popular games will be backwards compatible".

... and the moronic audience cheered...

[OB1]

It wasn't a great cheer. And they made it sound like it's BC for ALL games.

[A Black Falcon]

Well, if anyone got that impression I'd say that they were deluded...

Of course, we can hope for a high level of compatibilty. But their actual statement doesn't exactly give me much hope...

And that's bad. Revolution and PS3 will have backwards compatibility, after all... not having as much of it hurts the X-Box 360.

[OB1]

Did you see it actually being said in the press conference? I didn't think so.

[A Black Falcon]

Yes, of course I did... why do you think I posted the link and am in the chatroom (six people! :))? Because I'm watching it, of course.

[OB1]

Well I knew that the wording was odd and suspected something, but it's a damn press conference. It would be rude not to cheer.

[Dark Jaguar]

Why would it be rude? If you aren't impressed, it's your DUTY to make it clear, not decieve them. Besides, there's lots of press conferences where no one cheers. It's not something that's "demaned" at all, nor should it be. If you hear, for example, a suspicious scientist claiming something illogical, you don't cheer them after their announcement. You immediatly start asking questions.

[OB1]

You naivete never ceases to amaze me, DJ.

Comparing something like a press conference to a scientific claim...

[A Black Falcon]

You could boo or something, but you're expected to cheer.

[OB1]

It's a friggin press conference. Most of the people there are either from the press or are developers/publishers. If it were a bunch of fanboys then booing might happen.

[Great Rumbler]

I wouldn't have clapped.

[OB1]

If it were a bunch of fanboys

:p

[Great Rumbler]

I wouldn't have booed though!

...

Well, not very loudly anyway.

[OB1]

You know what I mean.

[Dark Jaguar]

Perhaps you should think about where my comparison STOPS, but I do hold ALL announcements to the standards of science to the extent that it BETTER be true, regardless of any advertising added to fluff it up. I'm not saying ANY of them live up to it, I'm just saying I have pretty big demands that will likely never be met, but I'm hardly going to just lose rational thought because other people try to make a living by manipulating others.

Anyway, I don't care what I'm "expected" to do ABF. If they make an announcement and I'm not impressed, I do nothing. I won't "boo" or insult them, yes that's rude. I don't just clap like a seal out of politeness though. When did it become RUDE to not compliment everyone despite whether they deserve it or not? If I'm not impressed, I don't cheer, I don't clap, I just stand there. Does it make for an uncomfortable situation? Probably. Could I offend the person? Most certainly. However, they'll have to deal with it.

I just realized some IDIOT is JUST ABOUT to respond by saying "I bet DJ boos little children because they can't sing in tune". No, no I don't. Use common sense.

[OB1]

And this is why you are not at E3, nor will you ever attend E3.

[Great Rumbler]

I'd probably get kicked out of E3.

[OB1]

Yeah...

[Great Rumbler]

It's possible though that the prospects of playing future titles might allow me to applaud moronic announcements.

[A Black Falcon]

Anyway, I don't care what I'm "expected" to do ABF.

Neither do I... but I probably wouldn't boo under normal circumstances (it doesn't seem nice... aren't there better ways of expressing displeasure?), so maybe in this case that wouldn't matter. :)

[Dark Jaguar]

Why not? Hey LL, do I have to sign some agreement saying I have to cheer during any announcements? I have my doubts but I wanted to check in on that, what with OB1 saying I won't ever go to E3. An odd statement to make...

I mean, a responsible journalist doesn't go cheering stuff. They don't show such signs of endorsement. Are you saying they just aren't interested in responsible journalism? I can see that happening of course, but I would have to have some evidence that this is the case before just assuming it.

ABF, what did I just say?

DJ: I wouldn't boo.

ABF: Booing is rude! Don't do that!

Yeesh, I specifically said it. Perhaps you didn't see that?

[OB1]

I wasn't commenting on your not wanting to boo. I'm glad you can pay attention, DJ.

I was specifically talking about your confusion over why people clapped at that BC announcement. You said that you would never have clapped at that, and I explained why the crowd did. Your point was that it would be no different than hearing a scientific proclamation. ... A press conference. A Microsoft. PRESS CONFERENCE. All of these press conferences are bullshit, but giving genial applause at stupid statements is expected. Haven't you ever been to a speach or a talk where the person says something not that interesting, but you're expected to clap? It's what we call etiquette. Pretty amazing concept, you should look it up.

[Dark Jaguar]

And as I explained, I don't care if it's expected. If the announcement is terrible, I will not clap. I will NOT hold them to a lower standard just because their goal is PR. I will SCREW them if their attempt is merely to use me in such a fasion. As I said, it should NOT be considered rude to forgo clapping for stuff that doesn't deserve it. I really don't care if I stop getting invited to their tea parties.

If your point is they are actually getting paid to clap, that's another thing entirely. Then I consider it more than just a stupid statement, I consider it an entire SHAM.

Yes, I know it's a business. I know their attempt is to succeed. If I don't approve of their methods though, I won't "play along" just to be "nice". Again, it should NOT be considered rude to simply not compliment someone if you don't think it is justified. Again, I hold the same standards for when a business makes a statement at a press conference that I do for any statement. Is it accurate? Is it logical? If neither, I ask questions. After that, the point comes "do I consider this important enough to applaud it?". Now, I consider a lot of somewhat silly things worth clapping at. Heck, I'll clap if someone says they managed to get .000001 degree (Celsius) closer to absolute zero, if they have presented sufficient cause for me to believe it. I'll clap if a company has introduced something new and innovative that actually seems worth obtaining.

What is the flaw here? What am I not getting?

[A Black Falcon]

Yeesh, I specifically said it. Perhaps you didn't see that?

No, I didn't. Makes sense that you'd agree with me about that though.

I was specifically talking about your confusion over why people clapped at that BC announcement. You said that you would never have clapped at that, and I explained why the crowd did. Your point was that it would be no different than hearing a scientific proclamation. ... A press conference. A Microsoft. PRESS CONFERENCE. All of these press conferences are bullshit, but giving genial applause at stupid statements is expected. Haven't you ever been to a speach or a talk where the person says something not that interesting, but you're expected to clap? It's what we call etiquette. Pretty amazing concept, you should look it up.

The point of the press conference is to say how great you are. It is. Just watch the Sony or MS conferences (full, good quality feed is at Gamespot -- watch them!)... it's all about how awesome they are and, by association, how bad the competiton is. And it's mostly aimed at a pretty low common denominator, so they say some very stupid things... especially Microsoft, theirs is horrible (though Sony had a few moments equally as bad, like when Kutanagi (sp?) said that the PS2 made DVDs popular...)... it's marketing-speak. And they want the crowd to cheer to it...

Now, not everyone does, of course. Nothing gets a massive roaring round of applause. But you don't hear any booing... if they didn't like it, it'd probably be more likely to have just silence (remember what happened when Nintendo showed "Celda"? It wasn't boos, but it wasn't cheers...)...

[OB1]

Jesus H. Christ, it's called simple etiquette, DJ, ETIQUETTE! Just a stupid press conference! Not everything is a crusade!

I pity your future husband/wife, I really do...

yikes.

[OB1]

Now, not everyone does, of course. Nothing gets a massive roaring round of applause. But you don't hear any booing... if they didn't like it, it'd probably be more likely to have just silence (remember what happened when Nintendo showed "Celda"? It wasn't boos, but it wasn't cheers...)...

People didn't boo because the creators were right there and the audience wasn't comprised of a bunch of rude assholes who feel the need to publically humiliate people over something as trivial as videogames. This isn't politics. Or science.

[Dark Jaguar]

Again, I didn't say anything about booing, but I just am not going to cheer on an announcement if I don't think it's worth it. Again, they may WANT it, but sorry, I won't give it to them. Despite what you think, I do not consider it wrong in any fasion to simply give them the cold shoulder. I have to let them know in SOME fasion that I am not impressed. That's the only way I can without being rude. I won't just lie to them. I'm not trying to "crusade" here. I'm simply trying to maintain a certain standard here. I know fully well their goals, but why should I care?

Professional journalism doesn't really give a damn what they are covering, by the way. Being professional means, well, not cheering just because it's expected, well it doesn't MEAN that but that's a consequence of it.

One last thing. I didn't bring up politics but don't compare it to science. Politics are temporary but a working formula is forever. Energy equals mass times (the speed of light times the speed of light) should last as long as humanity does.

One last last thing, courtesy is all well and good, but honesty preempts it to me.

I know you consider it rude, but I think I've explained why I don't consider it rude. Go ahead, clap all you want when in reality you think they just said something really cheesy, all because you don't want to hurt their feelings. I care about that too, but not enough that I'll applaud something stupid.

[OB1]

*sigh*

"Those who don't want to learn, will never fucking listen to a damn thing you say".

-Nietzsche

[A Black Falcon]

People didn't boo because the creators were right there and the audience wasn't comprised of a bunch of rude assholes who feel the need to publically humiliate people over something as trivial as videogames. This isn't politics. Or science.

Yes, this is true.

[OB1]

Thank you.

[Smoke]

Anyone else think maybe the emu community might make an Xbox emulator for Xbox 360? Mod the system, get a big HDD and fill it with Xbox games.

[Dark Jaguar]

OB1, before quoting people, make sure it actually applies to the current situation.

And, again, I would NOT have booed them.

You seem to be once again misinterpretting what I'm saying.

I will try to make it clear, as it may have been my fault.

When I see a press conference, their goal of advertising is apparent. However, I do not care about that. I'll listen to the info they have, but I will not cheer them on if what I saw did not impress me. Doing so as a courtesy, no, I won't do that. It's principle really. I don't think that SHOULD be a courtesy. I understand you don't think it ranks anywhere near something else, I see that. It's not even the same GOAL. But, the goal is irrelevent to me. If someone is offering information, I will ALWAYS apply the same standards to it. I don't care about business.

My response would not be to boo them. My response would, well let me say what I would do in this EXACT situation. In this situation I would, once they were finished speaking, try to ask them one question. I would see if I could get them to expand on what they meant by that statement. If they refused to answer, I'd leave it at that.

It's all well and good that they really only want to just say their line and get a cheer and leave the stage. I'm afraid that they need to EARN that cheer though. It should NEVER be expected, EVER.

[OB1]

You actually think that was a real quote? Never heard of Nietzsche before, eh?

[Dark Jaguar]

Well no I didn't. I believe the cursing was the first giveaway.

What was your point?

Anyway, I remember a kids in the hall sketch about a guy who wrote a story about a guy, and they found a dead God, um, oh wait he said god is dead...

[OB1]

I never said I agree with the man.

[Dark Jaguar]

No, but I loved that Kids in the Hall sketch.

"God is dead, and here's the body to prove it."

"Shocking more than finding out that God did in fact exist and was now dead was finding out how short God was. That's right, floods, hurricanes, the wonder of life, all from this tiny God with such tiny hands and feet."

"The world has a brief period of morning... and then it's back to work, on the roads that God built!"

Besides, he didn't actually say it, he wrote a story with a character who said it, and it actually was supposed to be more like how God is dead figuratively, in the minds of the people.

[Dark Jaguar]

Not that this applies or anything, but I found this lovely phrase that I think ABF will love.

Straw Man Tactic

Definition:

The author attacks an argument which is different from, and usually weaker than, the opposition's best argument.

Examples:
People who opposed the Charlottetown Accord probably just wanted Quebec to separate. But we want Quebec to stay in Canada.
We should have conscription. People don't want to enter the military because they find it an inconvenience. But they should realize that there are more important things than convenience.
Proof:

Show that the opposition's argument has been misrepresented by showing that the opposition has a stronger argument. Describe the stronger argument.

References:

Cedarblom and Paulsen: 138

[Great Rumbler]

I was at a John Edwards rally near where I live and I still clapped at some of the stuff he said, even if I didn't agree with it.

[Dark Jaguar]

Why?

[Great Rumbler]

Why not?

[A Black Falcon]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=8996

3: Xbox 360 "backwards compatibility" explained
Illustration
Ellie Gibson 05:07 19/05/2005

Current-gen Xbox games to be "recompiled" for Xbox 360

Following earlier indications that the Xbox 360 will only be backwards compatible with some Xbox games, Microsoft has admitted that existing software will need to be recompiled before it can be run on the new console.

The problem, it says, is down to hardware incompatibility - since the current Xbox uses an Intel processor, but the 360 will use IBM's PowerPC architecture, while NVIDIA's graphics solution is being replaced with an ATI one.

As many commentators have pointed out over the last few months, this means backwards compatibility problems. The solution Microsoft has reached is apparently to recompiled current-gen Xbox games so that they can be played on the 360. First on the list, it says, are the best-selling Halo titles.

The news has raised more questions than it answers, however, as it suggests that game titles may need to be modified somehow before players can use them on their new consoles - but Microsoft has denied that it will ask players to pay for new versions of the software.

"At launch, Xbox 360 will be backward compatible with the top Xbox games," Xbox PR manager Michael Wolf told GamesIndustry.biz today. "Our goal is to have every Xbox game work on Xbox 360. You will NOT need to purchase a new 'version' - your original games will work on Xbox 360."

Sony and Nintendo have already confirmed that their next-gen consoles - the PS3 and Revolution - will play all the games in their respective back catalogues, offering consumers a huge choice of titles at launch.
Update: Added Microsoft comment.