Sony has decided to do the thing I'm about to link to

[Dark Jaguar]

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/560/560354p1.html

IN JAPAN, they are going to continue to sell the old model as a HDD, Network adatper, and system bundle. If they do that in America, then there is no longer an issue of them no longer supporting the HDD, and as such, companies that made games supporting it would no longer need to do anythign special... like release their game on XBox :D.

[Smoke]

I know they're just leftovers but at the Super Target around here they have several of the FFXI PS2 bundles sitting next to the new style PS2.

I don't have a PS2 yet *gasp* (saving up for new computer) but when I do get one, I'm not sure whether I'd rather have the old style or the new. Even without the HDD, I kind of like front loading. I also worry that the new PS2 is cheaper or more shoddily made. And while it may be a minor thing I've heard the new PS2 doesn't have the blue led.

What do you guys think? Old style PS2, or new hotness PS2?

[OB1]

Well considering that the old model is a worthless piece of junk that doesn't like to work most of the time, I'm going with the new model!

[Smoke]

Well considering that the old model is a worthless piece of junk that doesn't like to work most of the time, I'm going with the new model!

Do we know that the new model isn't a "worthless piece of junk that doesn't like to work most of the time" though?

[OB1]

Well it's a top-loader, so that in itself makes it much more reliable. Unless when you press the open button it bursts into flames. Then it would probably be less reliable. Maybe.

[Great Rumbler]

*presses power button on new-style PS2* *PS2 explodes and the pieces catch on fire* *is also on fire* AAAAGGGHHHH!!!!

[Dark Jaguar]

I'd go with the old model, just for HD support. Who knows, one day you might actually GET one, or use that special HD loader software (unofficial) to format any spare hard drives you might have into PS2 format.

Plus, as you mentioned, it has front loading. That's just plain better design. Nintendo purposefully saved money with top loading, and Sony is too with this new remodel, but there's a reason they would go about designing systems with more expensive front loading. It's just plain safer design! The only negative is the added moving parts for opening and closing the drawer, but that's not going to result in disk read errors (trust me on this, I've seen many a disk drive for PC where the motors for the tray have been completely decimated, but by simply brute forcing the tray back in, I find the drive will still READ just fine (so long as the spindle motor and laser motor are both working, it's all good). The main reason it's safer, of course, as I've said, is simply beause all the sensitive stuff is inside the system instead of outside. No need to worry about damaging the lense or motor or anything else, and more than that, no need to worry about the environment damaging it, such as dust suddenly falling in there or whatnot. But hey, you already agree with me so hey, whatever. (Dere be da reason why da hardware makers always use that style unless trying to save money or shrink the device.) Now, as for the fact that a front loader also saves space in your entertainment center, or whatever, never had that problem. Who really has a big arse stack of stuff sitting next to their TV like that?

The very first models did pretty poorly, but from what I can tell the newest of the old models pretty much cleared everything up. I STILL have no idea why everyone thinks Sony hardware always falls apart. I mean, every single Sony product I own happens to be in perfect working order. I still use my PS1 from time to time with not a single problem, and that's a top loader, so you'd think some time over the course of me owning it something terrible would have happened to the lense or spindle. My PS2 also works just fine, and I recall at least once getting up and accidently kneeing the disk drive :D. I have never once recieved a disk read error. Oddly enough, ALL my friends have had to get new PS2s. I believe they were all early adopters though, so maybe I just got a later model when they fixed everything. I know that's the case with my PS1. Perhaps the general rule is Sony always releases prototypes and the final working version is always released later when the older ones have already exploded/developed independant thought and gone on a killing spree, consisting of... well maybe blinding someone with the laser when they look over it, I'm not really sure how a Playstation could manage to actually hurt someone...

[OB1]

DJ, front loading is far, far more problematic than top loading. Nintendo just didn't go with top loading because it's cheaper, they went with it because it's also much more durable. Remember that Nintendo wants all of their hardware to be able to handle extreme abuse. The more moving parts there are the more problematic a piece of electronics becomes. You should know that. There isn't even a fan in the GC!

The PS2's tray is very flimsy and very problematic.

[A Black Falcon]

Quadruple post!

And OB1, PC CD-ROM drives can last years. I see no reason why a console one couldn't too, unless you regularly hit your PS2 with a hammer or something...

[OB1]

Obviously you've never owned a Sony console before. The X-Box tray is great and sturdy, but the PS2 tray is a piece of crap. It's slow, very flimsy, and is a major cause for a lot of the disc-read erros on the PS2. Hence the change!

[Great Rumbler]

The disc tray on my PS2 opens really slow and it grinds on stuff when it opens.

[A Black Falcon]

Then it's Sony's fault, not the general fault of CD-Rom drives with trays.

[OB1]

No shit! That's what I said, genius!

[A Black Falcon]

I thought you were talking about trays in general...

[Great Rumbler]

Trays in general work good if they're made well. Just look at the XBox tray, they spent more money making it sturdy it works, unlike the PS2 tray which is the largest piece of junk I've ever seen. No wonder it's selling so well! People keep having to buy new ones because they keep falling apart!!

[Weltall]

Gamecube does have a fan. A big one. On the side.

[Dark Jaguar]

Yes Weltall, yes it does. And oh yes, if you happen to have a lolipop stick and are moving your GCN around while it's on, well, put the stick down unless you want the otherwise quiet fan to tell you something :D.

[A Black Falcon]

Yes, it does, and a loud CD-Rom drive (err, a disc-based media drive), making a conspicuous difference from the utterly silent N64...

[OB1]

Hey it does have a fan... what the fuck. I remember reading about the GC before it came out that there wasn't going to be a fan.

Hahaha, maybe I was thinking of something else.

[OB1]

And the GC isn't nearly as loud as the XB or PS2. Or the Dreamcast. That was the loudest motherfucker in the world.


*tries to play Shenmue late at night, wakes up whole damn neighborhood*

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, you're right, the Dreamcast was so loud...

[Dark Jaguar]

One annoying thing is that Sony has no official update site or software to hook up to something like that. What I mean is they are updating their various system drivers often enough, but with no special software to connect to some Sony update site online, you have to depend on ordering disks from Sony to get those drivers updated. On the other hand, MS, as part of it's totally unified online service, goes ahead and updates all the software right there. Now Sony's lesse fair policy for net gaming has worked just fine for them (but not Nintendo, maybe because Sony actually tries enticing compaines to give it a shot), but I still think they need a small update utility so a PS2 owner doesn't need to depend on snail mail or something just to get system updates.

DC loud? Come to think of it, it is pretty noisy, but considering I have my PC in my bedroom and a fan constantly on in there as well, well I just never notice system noise when playing games, unless the system starts making some frightening noise anyway... Namely, my GCN makes disturbing clicking sounds when I play Eternal Darkness...

Oddly enough, with all this white noise my brain just tunes out, I still have much better hearing than most people in my family. Maybe it's because I keep my various speaker volumes at one steady setting and never turn it up in that "bit by bit" way that slowly damages one's ears... As it is, if I'm around my mom and she's watching TV, ACROSS THE HOUSE, I can hear it painfully loud DROWNING OUT the TV I'm actually WATCHING.

[OB1]

My DC is actually louder than my PC.

[Smoke]

Well considering that the old model is a worthless piece of junk that doesn't like to work most of the time, I'm going with the new model!

Well it's a top-loader, so that in itself makes it much more reliable. Unless when you press the open button it bursts into flames. Then it would probably be less reliable. Maybe.

I STILL have no idea why everyone thinks Sony hardware always falls apart.

[url="http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=22396"]" apparently, a few retailers are saying there is a 5% defect rate on the PSTwo where all games won't boot.

Application of pressure on the lid will make the game load."[/url]

I wonder if turning it upside down applies enough pressure?

[Dark Jaguar]

A 5% defect rate... Unfortunatly, while believable, there just doesn't seem to be any proof. There's a message board there which links to some Japanese... blog according to that link...

I'll say this. While my PS2 works as good as the day I got it, my GCN and XBox have BOTH had to be replaced for disk read problems.

[OB1]

You must live in bizarro world since Sony is notorious for their shoddy hardware while Nintendo is known for the opposite.

[A Black Falcon]

OB1, she does, and it's called Oklahoma...

[OB1]

Then why is GR's GC fine but his PS2 not?

[Great Rumbler]

Both my GC and my Xbox work just as well as the day I got them, while my PS2 constantly has disc loading errors and the tray makes grinding sounds.

[A Black Falcon]

Did you get them in Oklahoma? :)

[OB1]

Heh.

[Great Rumbler]

Actually, I bought them in Texas. Maybe that has something to do with it.

[OB1]

Maybe!

[A Black Falcon]

That's what I was suggesting!

[OB1]

We know!

[A Black Falcon]

So maybe I'm right...

[Dark Jaguar]

Well my XBox is made in... Mexico? That's quality righ there! The GCN is made in Japan, this one anyway. I did have to send it in because it suddenly developed horrible disk read errors. Actually, it happened when I was playing Eternal Darkness... No, it wasn't a sanity effect, like I thought it was the first time I saw it. The fact that it wasn't an effect in the game, THAT messed with my sanity. When it happened with other games, I had to send it in. Fortunatly, they replaced it for free. It's all here in this pamphlet :D. (Actually, I think I made a thread about it.) The XBox suffered the same fate, so I had to get it replaced too. Both the replacement systems have had NO problems at all though. Both I think were the early models. My PS2 on the other hand is a later model. This leads me to my crackpot theory. That is to say, the reason is because the first models of ALL the systems were horribly flawed. I know I remember hearing a LOT about XBox failures, and a few stories about GCN problems (though not so much with the latter). I think that the reason there were so many more PS2 reports is because so many more people had PS2s. Crazy I know, but somehow that seems logical... Meanwhile, the later models of ALL the systems don't seem to have ANY problems, ALMOST as though the later models were made specifically to ADDRESS said problems :D. Anyway, as I said, since I first got the second model of the PS2, I think that is exactly why it didn't fail, whereas the first editions models of the other two systems were flawed and thus they did.

Weird though, that ALL the companies would released flawed systems right out the door... That's what rushing to a launch date before stress testing the optical media drives will do I guess...

[Great Rumbler]

I got my GC on the very day it came out. The very HOUR actually.

[A Black Falcon]

I was not that dedicated, but did get it pretty soon after launch... and yes it works perfectly. Okay, the controller that came with it is somewhat broken, but that's not the system now is it... :)

[Dark Jaguar]

With the GCN from what I can it was only SOME of them that were flawed. I suppose the same could be said of the others...

Okay, perhaps it was a flaw in manufacturing the first set or something... I dunno... All I do know is that optical drive based consoles have a long sad history of launch systems failing. Not all, just enough. The PS1 had the same issue, as did the DC. Now both my PS1 and my DC are working as good as the day I got them, I'm just saying the first models were somewhat notorious for failing. The DC only had a small percentage, but I believe the PS's first models were so faulty that not a single owner of one didn't have to replace it by now :D.

[OB1]

I got my GC on the very day it came out. The very HOUR actually.

I literally got it the minute it came out! Yay for me!

And really, PS2s are famous in the video game community for breaking down, not X-Boxes and GCs.