Euthanasia OR Youth In Asia?

[Darunia]

I know we've already tackled this, but another ageless debate for our stagnant debate forum: Should euthanasia (that is legalized suicide, or assisted-death) be legalized? Why shouldn't people be in control of their lives and be able to end them? Who is the government to step in and say 'No, we own your as a citizen--you may not end your life?"

[Weltall]

I think it should be, with very strict legal guidelines. Such as, either a statement is made in a will and last testament, or if a person is diagnosed with a terminal disease and has under six months to live anyway.

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, I think i should within guidelines. It seems kind of cruel to not allow it in some cases...

[Weltall]

You and I are on the same side of TWO concurrent debates! My God, the sky should be failling any minute now! :(

[A Black Falcon]

:D

My positions on drugs and (to a lesser degree probably, especially for the US) this should show you (if you didn't get it before) that I'm not exactly all the way left wing... I'm quite liberal for sure but don't for instance say we should get rid of the army or anything stupid like that...

[Great Rumbler]

I don't know that I'd try to have doctor-assisted death outlawed, but I am against suicide in general, even in cases where one is in pain. It just seems wrong to me, although I can't say for sure that I'd think the same way if I was in a situation like that.

[Darunia]

I think that only a person should have absolute control of their life---that's the most sacred thing a person has, and it is everything that a person has, and if it is unpleasant and not worth living for, NO ONE can intervene. Suicide shouldn't be a crime---and euthanasia should be legalized in a humane, civil manner.

[Fittisize]

There should be more steps created so that people won't ever, ever try and kill themselves. Like you said, it's the most sacred thing that a person has, but people should be convinced that their life is indeed worth living for.

Suicide is one of the worst things you can do, IMO. One of the more unpleasent words in the English language. :S

[Weltall]

There should be more steps created so that people won't ever, ever try and kill themselves. Like you said, it's the most sacred thing that a person has, but people should be convinced that their life is indeed worth living for.

Suicide is one of the worst things you can do, IMO. One of the more unpleasent words in the English language. :S

But I think, if a person's life is going to end very soon, and they know it (you have six months to live, and every minute of it is going to be filled with crippling pain), or if a person becomes an incurable drooling vegetable... which, to me, is no different than being clinically dead, then I think a person has a right to end it on their own terms.

But I hardly think a person has a right to commit suicide whenever and for whatever reason, because I don't think that a person's life belongs only to them. It belongs to those who love them, also, and it's a terrible thing to anyone when someone they love dies, for whatever reason.

[Dark Jaguar]

I agree. Suicide is a LITERAL giving up on life. It's the worst thing a person can do to themselves. Legallity? Honestly, when someone kills themselves, whether it's legal or not really isn't something they care about. It's not like being arrested could possibly be considered a threat. The worst thing that could happen is being arrested for the ATTEMPT of suicide.

Generally, I agree that while it's the worst thing that a person could do. I disagree with suicide for the same reasons I disagree with murder, there are exceptions. Generally, it's only something someone does to themself, so the law doesn't really have to say it's illegal or anything there. However, sometimes it affects others. If the person killing themselves is a single parent, then I consider suicide paramount to abandonment. In other words, if someone is going to commit suicide, it's only legal if they are not the sole caregiver to ANY life form. How's that?

However, in the cases where they aren't taking care of another life form, while legal, I think that anyone who would offer to help in that endevor should be considered a criminal. Those persons are commiting murder, no matter how they suger coat it. If someone wants to kill themself, they need to do it themselves. Here's the thing. Doctors have been found on more than one occasion to choose not to give certain people with extreme disabilities and poor health medication they need to continue living because the doctors have decided on their own that the patient's life is nothing but suffering and they are doing them a favor. Now, hearing that I would hate to have a doctor that would do that to me wouldn't affect you, because you don't care about my opinion until I'm in their situation. However, more than a few people who are in those conditions, those who found out about what the doctor was doing, immediatly found new doctors and consider their lives to still be worth living, very much so. These people still have their minds.

Now, basically what I'm saying is this regarding assisted suicide where the patient actually goes to a "doctor" for help. A real doctor would try to give them a reason to go on. Even when the body has reached it's limit, there are ways. We have the technology to continue communication with these people. They can still contribute and be useful. In a coma? You may not be aware of this, but people can and do wake up from comas. Let the person decide for themselves after they wake up if the culture shock is too much. Also, a doctor will say things in more absolute terms than they actually think. Doctors don't lie, or are very egotistical, but they are taught to give an air of absolute certainty about things when they are mostly certain. A doctor will say to someone, to prevent them getting their hopes up, that a person will never wake up again. However, the doctor will still know there is a chance, just one they don't want to feed to someone in that situation. Honeslty I disagree with that method myself. However, my point is that a person may decide to end someone's life without full knowledge that they can never wake up.

If someone's brain is dead, then that's different. They are already dead. Nothing can revive them because that is death itself. One isn't really killing something that is already dead when they unhook the rest of the equipment. Just make sure the brain really is dead.

Now, regarding assisted suicide, I'm fully aware that my view is controversial. Regarding suicide alone, I believe it's absolutely wrong to do it, but it's not something that needs to be made illegal. The law won't prevent such things. Counselling will. This has one exception. Tell me now, do you not agree that to commit suicide when you are the sole caregiver of a life form such as kids or even a pet is exactly the same, EXACTLY the same, as throwing them outside and abandoning them?

[Darunia]

People DO commit suicide. My great uncle shot himself because...

1.) His only daughter had just died, in her thirties, of drugs.
2.) His wife had just been killed in a botched surgery.
3.) He himself was dying of advanced cancer, and believed himself to be a burden on his remaining family.

I wish that he hadn't killed himself, but he was going to die anyway-- I think that suicide should be replaced with legal euthanasia. There should be written documentation, wherein the person officially chooses to die, and there should be witnesses, and it should be done in a comfortable, safe way. Otherwise, people find other less humane ways--my great uncle used a shotgun. His elderly mother had to walk in and find him as such.

[Fittisize]

wish that he hadn't killed himself, but he was going to die anyway

Yeesh, we're all going to die someday. You might as well make the most of what you've got.

[Darunia]

Perhaps, but no one should make that decision for you. If nothing else in this world, we do own our lives--and how we use them, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, is our own business.

[Dark Jaguar]

We aren't the sole owner of our own lives. I no longer believe that. Killing one's self hurts any that care for them.

I bet the SECOND you read that first sentence you will fly into a rage at the very thought that anyone could believe that. :D

[Darunia]

That's ridiculous. That's like not being able to tear down a house unless the entire neighborhood voted on it. It's no one's business but their own what to do with their life. You wouldn't get a job, or go to a certain school because everyone told you to, nor should you run any part of you life on what your environs tell you to do.

[Weltall]

That's ridiculous. That's like not being able to tear down a house unless the entire neighborhood voted on it.

You have to get many kinds of approval before you could ever tear your house down. Always, you have to get approval from local government agencies, and in some types of communities you most certainly have to get approval from your fellow homeowners. And even outside of those communities, your neighbors have say in something like that, because while it is your house, having a pile of destroyed house on your lot ruins the property value of everyone around you, should anyone be looking to sell theirs.

Not a good analogy. :)

[A Black Falcon]

So DJ people should be kept alive because they have some vague amount of self left though they are in horrible, irreprable pain ALL the time? That is inhumane! It's close to torture, I'd say... yes it should be very strictly regulated, obviously. But for some people, I don't see any strong arguement against it. Keeping people alive when it really doesn't have a whole lot of their best interest in mind doesn't make that much sense... now if it's your relative you well might think differently, but logically your position is flawed.

[Darunia]

You have to get many kinds of approval before you could ever tear your house down.

But not the voting of your friends. Picking on my analogy doesn't really increase your standing on euthanasia.

HARRY: "Hey Bob, is it all right if I tear down my house and build a new one?"
BOB: "No, Harry. I don't want you to. I'm just a neighbor, but I say no."
HARRY:"Oh--all right, I guess I won't then. Because although I own my house, my friends and neighbors have the first say over it, as opposed to me.

*Rolls eyes.*

[Great Rumbler]

It's not such a horrible thing to listen to what the people around you say and make decisions on that.

[Fittisize]

That's probably why Darunia has no friends.

[Darunia]

*Goron army, led by Darunia, charges and kills Fittisize*

:goron: :robot: :robot: :robot: :robot: :robot: :robot: :robot:


So what you're all saying is that your life doesn't belong to you, but to the government and your friends.

[Great Rumbler]

Um...no. I'm saying that there's nothing wrong with listening to people around you when they have a point.

Example:

Darunia: I'm bored...I think I'll go and rob an orphanage.

Darunia's friend: Umm...why don't you do something that's less illegal and isn't totally without morals?

Darunia: Forget you! I'm not going to listen to you! I'll do whatever I want and not listen to what people tell me to do!

See?

[Darunia]

Yes, but the ultimate decision is that of the person---if I rob an orphanage, I should very well listen to you, but it is not your decision to stop me. Like No Doubt says, "It's My Life---don't you forget!" The very same is for suicide. If life isn't as pleasant for a person, by all means they should seek therapy--but if it is unproductive, then they should be allowed to die.

[Fittisize]

Darunia:

[Darunia]

Well that's pretty funny. If you don't care to continue the argument then don't come into the thread anymore.

[Fittisize]

You've been continuing this *argument* in which noboby really cares for anymore for three days now...

[Dark Jaguar]

Not someone's decision? Sure it is. If I, as a citizen, were to stop you, I'd get a frickin' prize or something, whereas you would get arrested. People WANT people to stop people from robbing places, with less than lethal force that is.

[Fittisize]

Shh! You're not supposed to continue the argument!

[Darunia]

Far be it from me to try and start a political debate thread in the debate forum, Lord Fittisize. So don't reply to this, and we'll consider it granted that I was right all along.