X-Box Next...

[A Black Falcon]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercuryne...849191.htm

[Great Rumbler]

Microsoft is far more concerned about keeping the cost of its Xbox Next console low than it is with including dazzling technological features

Interesting.

As a result, Microsoft seems to have decided that saving the $50 the hard drive costs outweighs its benefits.

Memory cards here we come!

[A Black Falcon]

Also note how it uses IBM CPUs that are like PowerPCs -- Mac hardware, like the GC... from Microsoft!

[Dark Jaguar]

And, while both Nintendo (not sure if that was official) and Sony have announced the next gen systems will be backwards compatible, MS has made the fatal flaw in making their next console, well, not so much...

Then there's the hard disk thing...

You know, next gen systems are supposed to IMPROVE on previous consoles. This seems like a step backwards (you KNEW that sentence was what I was going to say, and even if I didn't say it you'd have left this post thinking I did!). Seriously, bad idea MS. A lot of people made fun of MS just before the X-Box came out for various reasons they generally just made up as they went along (it'll crash all the time because it's MS, it'll need to be patched, it'll just be a computer so I'll just get one of those, MS suxors) and two actual things to complain about (system size and controller size). The imaginary stuff was just imaginary so that faded away well enough. With the other two, well, it's a CONSOLE so who cares if it's the size of a VCR most of the time (though if I'm moving it to another room, I do wish it was lighter :D). The second one, the one problem that would actually matter, was fixed by MS after many complaints. Overall the XBox was a very well designed system with it's main flaw fixed after some time.

You know, I do believe WE are being used right now though. I think MS made this announcement not because they actually PLAN on making the next version more powerful but without all the stuff that made the original nice in the first place, but rather to "feel out" how we the public would feel about it. I make myself sick realizing that I'm here, TALKING about it ONLINE JUST as they wanted me to! UGH! Nintendo does the SAME thing all the time.

MS is likely basing their decision on this, RIGHT NOW, on what they are reading on various message boards. We are frickin' puppets on the other side of glass. Now THERE'S a mixed metaphore...

[Great Rumbler]

Yeah, it's possible that they'll change those things before they release it.

[OB1]

Sounds like MS is trying to be like Nintendo, which I think is a bad thing. The HDD is the single best thing MS did for consoles. It makes online gaming so much better. I don't want to have to buy five memory cards so that I can save all of those Splinter Cell 4 levels. Ugh, I was hoping this EGM rumor would turn false (EGM reported on this in their rumor section a few months ago).

[A Black Falcon]

Read the article. It is quite interesting. Essentially it says that MS will follow Sony's lead. If the PS3 has a hard drive then the X-Box 2 will suddenly generate one, for instance...

"Possible" they might change their minds? You didn't read it, did you... or didn't read clearly. It makes it very clear that they seem pretty indecisive and even things they have decided on if market conditions (read: the PS3) change...

And the HDD was a good move, but it was a huge money-loser... and it made the system even bigger. They want to increase profitability and decrease the size of the thing, you know. Oh, the size thing was a real problem in the Japanese market. I know the fact that it's an American company hurt a lot, but the huge size sure didn't help any...

[OB1]

No I didn't read the article. But no HDD would be a serious mistake for them. It's the best thing about the X-Box. Online gaming would be seriously crippled without it.

[A Black Falcon]

But they're losing all kinds of money from it and want to cut down costs... but as the article says, just letting Sony play leader and following them like they seem to be doing could have negative consequences...

[OB1]

They're going to lose even more money when they have nothing else to offer than being an imitation of Sony. Copying Sony's hardware decisions is the dumbest thing you can do. Sony almost always does stupid things with their hardware. That's not why they're #1.

[alien space marine]

Backwards compatibility is worthless after a year the new console is released,Would you play halo 1 if you had halo 2? exactly!only the most hardcore gamers will play the old games 2-3 years after the new console and its games are released.Most people that will buy xbox2 probaily have the xbox original anyways.

[OB1]

Yeah but then they can't sell it. I plan on selling my PS2 when I get a PS3. I need the space!

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, not having backwards compatibility like they are thinking is an amazingly dumb decision... probably brought on by the very different hardware, but still very stupid. I don't get Microsoft here... they need to differentiate themselves from Sony, not copy... and the HDD is their biggest thing. Yes it loses money, but the benefit should make up for that I think. They clearly think differently though...

[OB1]

Well I guess all we can hope for is that Sony packs in a HDD with the PS3.

[A Black Falcon]

And that it convinces Nintendo to too? :)

[OB1]

Heh, the funny thing about this is that now Sony knows that MS just plans on copying them, so they could make fake announcements up until the PS3 comes out in order to screw up MS. I can see it now: "PS3 to be powered by gerbils", "PS3 to make toast instead of play games".

[A Black Falcon]

Microsoft leaks details on Xbox Next
PLANS REFLECT HARD-FOUGHT BATTLE WITH SONY FOR GAMERS' DOLLARS
By Dean Takahashi
Mercury News

Microsoft has quietly circulated the specifications for its next-generation Xbox video-game console, indicating how the company plans to carry on its war against dominant player Sony.

The details suggest Microsoft is far more concerned about keeping the cost of its Xbox Next console low than it is with including dazzling technological features or driving its rivals out of the business, according to a variety of industry sources.

People familiar with Microsoft's strategy say the company apparently believes it can capture a much larger share of the market if it launches its machine before Sony fields its PlayStation 3 console in 2006.

A Microsoft spokeswoman declined to comment on strategy details.

The new Xbox reflects some tough lessons learned in the current console battle, in which Sony has outsold Microsoft 5 to 1. The Xbox has put Microsoft on the map with a generation of gamers. But it has also been a money loser, albeit a relatively small one for a company with $53 billion in cash.

Microsoft launched its Xbox console 20 months after the PlayStation 2 debut. By the time Microsoft sold 1.5 million consoles, Sony had sold more than 20 million PlayStations. To date, Microsoft has sold 13.7 million Xboxes, while Sony has sold more than 70 million. In the United States alone, console sales amounted to $3 billion in sales last year.

For gamers, the new Xbox will be impressive, giving them the ability to play fast-action, realistic 3-D games on a high-definition TV set. Microsoft's emissaries have told industry developers and publishers that the next Xbox will be ready to launch in fall 2005 with the following specifications:

• Three IBM-designed 64-bit microprocessors. The combined power of these chips means the Xbox Next will have more computing power than most personal computers. The chips are used in Apple Computer's high-end G5 PowerMac machines now.

• A graphics chip designed by ATI Technologies with speeds much faster than its upcoming R400 chip for the personal computer. This chip will help the next Xbox to display games with the resolution of high-definition TV.

• Compatibility with the original Xbox, which is based on Intel and Nvidia chips, isn't guaranteed. Microsoft is concerned it would cost too much money in hardware or in licensing fees to enable the Xbox Next to play old Xbox games. This is risky in part because Sony's strategy has been to maintain compatibility with its old consoles.

``I can't imagine that Microsoft would be so insanely stupid as to make it incompatible,'' said Jon Peddie, an analyst at Jon Peddie Research in Tiburon.

Microsoft is leaving itself wiggle room to react to competitive moves by Sony and Nintendo. A few details are to be decided. In contrast with the current Xbox, the next one will have no hard disk drive -- unless Sony puts one in the PlayStation 3. Instead, the console will rely on flash memory to store saved games and permanent data, much like the current PlayStation 2.

The machine also will have about 256 megabytes of dynamic random access memory. But Microsoft will upgrade that to 512 gigabytes if Sony puts in more. The previous Xbox had 64 megabytes. And lastly, it isn't clear if Microsoft will include the current DVD video technology or Blu-Ray, its successor. Blu-Ray will hold much more data, but it's unclear when it will be ready for market.

The current Xbox has an eight-gigabyte hard disk drive. That drive is useful for online games and storing game art, but many developers chose not to make use of it. As a result, Microsoft seems to have decided that saving the $50 the hard drive costs outweighs its benefits.

In telling the developers what will be in the box, Microsoft is helping them get started on games that will be ready when the console launches. But it is also soliciting feedback, and some developers are pushing Microsoft to make changes.

``I would really like to see a hard disk drive in the box,'' said Tim Sweeney, chief executive officer of Epic Games in Raleigh, N.C., who has made his opinions known to Microsoft. ``For a console to really have a useful online component, it has to have the hard drive to store downloaded maps and other data.''

Sweeney says it is dangerous for Microsoft to wait until Sony reveals the details of the PlayStation 3 or to pay too much attention to cost issues.

``Sony isn't as motivated to launch a new console because it is No. 1,'' he said. ``If Microsoft waits for them, it is in effect allowing Sony to design Microsoft's box.''

Regarding cost issues, a Microsoft spokeswoman would only say, ``Microsoft is in this for the long term.''

Developers like Sweeney say they are pleased it will be apparently easy to develop games for Microsoft's new box. That was one of the main advantages that Microsoft has had over its rivals. Current information about the PlayStation 3, sketchy as it is, indicates that it could be extremely difficult for developers to master.

The top executives of both Electronic Arts and Activision said this week that they have not received formal ``software development kits'' from Microsoft yet, but they did say they have begun creating next-generation games. Internally, Microsoft has begun developing game prototypes, and it is using G5 systems to do so.

The same developers who have seen the Microsoft specifications say Sony hasn't shared as much data with them. Sony appears to be willing to wait until 2006, in part so that it can milk the profits from the current generation PlayStation 2. In the meantime, Sony is launching an all-in-one PS 2/video recording box dubbed the PSX and the PlayStation Portable.

Microsoft's schedule may change -- it has a big meeting coming up for developers this month. But for now it appears it will release information about the new box at both the Game Developers Conference in San Jose in March and at the Electronic Entertainment Expo in Los Angeles in May.

Read it then come back to me. :)

[OB1]

But I don't want to...

[A Black Falcon]

Then you are incredibly lazy and dumb for making arguements based on nothing!

[OB1]

This is an argument?

[A Black Falcon]

Points, then. Same meaning the way I used the word. Lazy and kind of dumb for making points based on few facts.

[OB1]

If what I say is incorrect then it's your own damn fault. You said "Read the article. It is quite interesting. Essentially it says that MS will follow Sony's lead. If the PS3 has a hard drive then the X-Box 2 will suddenly generate one, for instance...
"

[A Black Falcon]

I intentionally did not say anything in my first post in the hopes people would read it and not just base a thread on two sentences...

[OB1]

I didn't quote your first post. I quoted the post where you said that MS is going to do whatever Sony does.

[A Black Falcon]

.

``I would really like to see a hard disk drive in the box,'' said Tim Sweeney, chief executive officer of Epic Games in Raleigh, N.C., who has made his opinions known to Microsoft. ``For a console to really have a useful online component, it has to have the hard drive to store downloaded maps and other data.''

Sweeney says it is dangerous for Microsoft to wait until Sony reveals the details of the PlayStation 3 or to pay too much attention to cost issues.

Microsoft is leaving itself wiggle room to react to competitive moves by Sony and Nintendo. A few details are to be decided. In contrast with the current Xbox, the next one will have no hard disk drive -- unless Sony puts one in the PlayStation 3. Instead, the console will rely on flash memory to store saved games and permanent data, much like the current PlayStation 2.

The machine also will have about 256 megabytes of dynamic random access memory. But Microsoft will upgrade that to 512 gigabytes if Sony puts in more. The previous Xbox had 64 megabytes. And lastly, it isn't clear if Microsoft will include the current DVD video technology or Blu-Ray, its successor. Blu-Ray will hold much more data, but it's unclear when it will be ready for market.

[OB1]

...sooo, how does that ruin my "argument"*?









*which was actually a joke, and you'd know that if you weren't a souless automaton

[alien space marine]

The Hardrive must stay!

[A Black Falcon]

It doesn't ruin your arguement. I'm just saying that reading it would make your statements better...

[OB1]

What did I say wrong?

[A Black Falcon]

Sounds like MS is trying to be like Nintendo, which I think is a bad thing. The HDD is the single best thing MS did for consoles. It makes online gaming so much better. I don't want to have to buy five memory cards so that I can save all of those Splinter Cell 4 levels. Ugh, I was hoping this EGM rumor would turn false (EGM reported on this in their rumor section a few months ago).

MS is NOT trying to be like Nintendo. :)

[OB1]

Sure they are. They want to do things the cheap way and stick to gaming-only.

[A Black Falcon]

No. They are trying to keep up with Sony. Nintendo isn't.

[OB1]

I said that before you said that they want to copy Sony.

[A Black Falcon]

Which was my point about you acting on lack of info! You sure are forgetful...

[OB1]

You're an idiot, ABF.

[A Black Falcon]

Uh, that's your standard reaction, but wrong in this case. I mean, I said 'this is an example of why you should read before reacting'. You said 'why?'. I proved why. And then you seem to have forgotten why I posted it! And I'm the stupid one? :D

[OB1]

You're an idiot for this entire thread. Read through it again and maybe you'll understand what I'm talking about.

[A Black Falcon]

For actually wanting people to "read" articles we are discussing?

Now can't we just talk about X-Box 2?

[A Black Falcon]

For actually wanting people to "read" articles we are discussing? No, I don't see how that is stupid. Not at all.

Now can't we just talk about X-Box 2?

[alien space marine]

Go Xbox!

[OB1]

*sigh*

ABF, you might as well just write "I'm an idiot" at the end of each post.

[Dark Jaguar]

ASM YOU MORON! You said exactly before even hearing my answer! Of COURSE we'd play the old games! That's why it's there! Halo 1 when Halo 2 is out? Of course you had to pick an FPS or something. You might as well have used Mario Party, because yes in those cases you NEVER play the last one when the new one is out.

However, I WOULD TOTALLY PLAY FABLE 1 AFTER FABLE 2 CAME OUT! Idiot! We're gamers, we keep playing the old games because we enjoyed them and want to KEEP playing them! I STILL play Chrono Trigger every now and then, and enjoy romps through Super Mario Bros 1 whenever I'm bored but don't want to play a new game (for whatever reason). How can you SAY that and call yourself a gamer?!

Note: All callings of ASM as a moron were done for comedic effect, like in Futurama. Though, the person would have had to suffer SOME sort of brain damage to have said something like THAT.

[A Black Falcon]

*sigh*

ABF, you might as well just write "I'm an idiot" at the end of each post.

Asking people to actually know what they are talking about is one of the least idiotic things I can think of. If you mean that you think it's fine to base statements on little fact, then you are quite disturbed...

But why you're attacking me when all I've tried to do is actually discuss the topic at hand, and when reading the article is an integral part of that, is utterly bizarre.

[Great Rumbler]

I play old games all the time, so, to me, backwards compatibility is a big thing.

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, it's very stupid to say that just because there are new games you won't want to play the old ones, I definitely agree. And it's a lot easier when you can play them all on the same machine... it is really stupid to say that new games would mean you'd not play old ones.

[OB1]

Asking people to actually know what they are talking about is one of the least idiotic things I can think of. If you mean that you think it's fine to base statements on little fact, then you are quite disturbed...

But why you're attacking me when all I've tried to do is actually discuss the topic at hand, and when reading the article is an integral part of that, is utterly bizarre.

You're so fucking weird, ABF. I made a joke about Sony and MS and then you responded with "Your argument is flawed and it's obvious that you didn't read the article!". I mean, how does one respond to such a bizarre post? Who's arguing? It really does seem like you're responding to posts from an alternate dimension Tendo City but for some reason your posts get sent to this dimension's Tendo City. Or maybe you translate everyone's posts into korean and back with babelfish, which is why you never seem to understand anything anyone ever says. I can't make any sense out of 95% of your posts.

[A Black Falcon]

That was more about annoyance about you refusing to read it than anything you said...

[OB1]

You called my joke a flawed argument!!

[A Black Falcon]

No I didn't... do I need to explain what I meant for the fourth time?

I thought it was clear that "arguement" doesn't just mean two people arguing, but also a point you make... my arguement is that xxx is yyy... look it up in the dictionary...

Oh, and your denials in this thread that its okay to not read the subject just got worse and worse as it went on. Read the thread again and you'll see what I mean. :D

[alien space marine]

ASM YOU MORON! You said exactly before even hearing my answer! Of COURSE we'd play the old games! That's why it's there! Halo 1 when Halo 2 is out? Of course you had to pick an FPS or something. You might as well has used Mario Party, because yes in those cases you NEVER play the last one when the new one is out.

However, I WOULD TOTALLY PLAY FABLE 2 AFTER FABLE 1 CAME OUT! Idiot! We're gamers, we keep playing the old games because we enjoyed them and want to KEEP playing them! I STILL play Chrono Trigger every now and then, and enjoy romps through Super Mario Bros 1 whenever I'm bored but don't want to play a new game (for whatever reason). How can you SAY that and call yourself a gamer?!

Note: All callings of ASM as a moron were done for comedic effect, like in Futurama. Though, the person would have had to suffer SOME sort of brain damage to have said something like THAT.

Clearly I touched a nerve in poor DJ , I dont see why my opinion is gonna effect what happens to the xbox2 are you afriad by my post that the MS people will decide to kill backwards compatibility?Putting aside your name calling , You didnt wrestle the fact that I had stated that you can still own the old console to play the old games like you do for the snes. I also stated only hardcore freaks like DJ will play outdated games till kingdom come unlike many other people . RPGs are not FPS that get outdated in a few years that is true but you will likely have played the game 100x over before the next console comes out.