Zelda compilation?

[OB1]

Looks like Game Informer was right then! I really hope the 2D ones aren't just straight ports, but I expect them to be. It'll be nice to have a high-res version of MM, at least. And maybe they'll bring that framerate up to 60 fps. That'd be nice.

[A Black Falcon]

The Oracles games are one game, Zelda 7. Given how they work, I can't think of another way to classify them...

Oh yeah, and I bet they will be straight ports, given that this is just a bonus disc.

And what about Master Quest?

[OB1]

Each Oracle game is completely unique. They link together, but they're even more different from each other than Pokemon Red is to Pokemon Sapphire.

[Great Rumbler]

I really want to get this. Hopefully they're be other way to get it besides buying a Gamecube.

[A Black Falcon]

They are two halves of the same game... that's the only way I can explain how the two games have one final boss. :)

[OB1]

Each Oracle game is as long as a regular Zelda game and they are very different from each other (aside from graphics and menus). If you don't consider them full Zelda games then you can't consider MM a full Zelda game.

[Dark Jaguar]

You know, I'm somewhat surprised you two got into an argument on this, but I really shouldn't be :D.

I'll only say that the carts themselves have numbers indicating where they lie in the series, if you care to count that. I myself found the easy way out of just using acronyms whenever I refer to a Zelda game. I don't even think about it any more.

As for Zelda 1 and 2, I expect that at least Zelda 1 would have improved graphics. I expect the remade version on the Super Famicom Satellavision game to show up on this disk. Of course, we never got it so we wouldn't miss it, but being from Japan it'll be made with them in mind first, and they DID have it to miss. I sure hope the original NES version is also on there (most likely will be) though, because from what I hear the SF remake kinda sucked because they ended up shrinking down the overworld map to half it's original size and some other stuff I forget in the reviews I've read. Still, it would be nice to at least see what that remake was like for myself. I'm set on playing this and the Game & Watch Zelda game so I'll have played 'em all.

Oh, I always knew it wouldn't take long for Nintendo to take a fully made game, OOT, and finally just sell the thing since it's complete already. I just didn't figure they would also package in 3 other games, what with them releasing Super Mario remakes one at a time, remakes that were once sold packaged together in one set I might add! How long do you think it will be before Nintendo announces "Super Mario Advance 5: Super Mario Bros. 1"?

[OB1]

I don't think they ever will, since it already got the DX treatment. But perhaps they'll do it anyhow since they have yet to release the All-Stars version of Mario 1 on any of their handhelds. :S

I really doubt that Nintendo will update the graphics of Zelda 1 for this compilation disc. They're too cheap for that.

[Dark Jaguar]

I didn't say they'd update them. I said they are likely to take the update they already made and put it on there.

Oh, and I thought that about SMB1 too, until they rerereleased Donkey Kong Country on GBA even though it was already rereleased on GBC, just because that one looked and sounded better.

[A Black Falcon]

Each Oracle game is as long as a regular Zelda game and they are very different from each other (aside from graphics and menus). If you don't consider them full Zelda games then you can't consider MM a full Zelda game.

'very' different? I'd disagree. Yes, worlds, enemies, and items are different... but the gameplay is the same. More similar than any two other Zelda games. They also have a lot of characters in common, and you need to play both games to fight the real final boss! How do you reconcile that with them being completely different games?

Yes, they are different... but still, they have a lot of similarities and are connected in many ways.

Are they more different than any two Pokemon games? Probably... but that's saying next to nothing... :)

[Laser Link]

I wanted to use numbers because it reminded me of the good old days before OoT or MM had names, and we just called them Zelda 64 or (in the case of ZHQ, Zelda 5) or Zelda 6, Zelda Gaiden, or Zelda 64 2 (that was always a funny on, like Metroid Prime 2).

[OB1]

I didn't say they'd update them. I said they are likely to take the update they already made and put it on there.

Oh, and I thought that about SMB1 too, until they rerereleased Donkey Kong Country on GBA even though it was already rereleased on GBC, just because that one looked and sounded better.

I thought that satellite Zelda update wasn't the full game...

'very' different? I'd disagree. Yes, worlds, enemies, and items are different... but the gameplay is the same. More similar than any two other Zelda games. They also have a lot of characters in common, and you need to play both games to fight the real final boss! How do you reconcile that with them being completely different games?

Yes, they are different... but still, they have a lot of similarities and are connected in many ways.

Are they more different than any two Pokemon games? Probably... but that's saying next to nothing...

Now this is rich. ABF-- the guy who thinks that the wall jump in Mega Man X made it a radically different game from the previous MM games-- doesn't think that the two Oracle games can be considered seperate titles. See what I meant when I said that you change your opinion on a consitent basis, only arguing for the sake of arguing? Hopefully you'll see that now.

Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages may control and look like each other, but all of the 2D Zeldas play similarily to each other (aside from Zelda 2, of course) and are more different from each other than even Mega Man 1 and Mega Man x6. Sure there's a huge graphical leap between those two MM's, but everything else is identical.

[Dark Jaguar]

I only read a few FAQs for that game, all made for an incomplete version. They apparently did complete it just before shutting down the system, but apparently the guides were all made for some copy of the incomplete version floating around the net which apparently is all they can find. Oh well... In any case, even if it wasn't 100% completed, from what I understand it was like 95% or so complete so adding the last level or whatever was missing shouldn't be that hard a task. Besides, that's just the 3rd quest. The first two didn't need to be downloaded and were already complete.

[A Black Falcon]

The gameplay? Yes, its more different than any two MM or any two MMX (not MM and MMX, I'd say, though) games... like the MM games they play very, very similarly, and share a graphics engine with the also very similar Link's Awakening...

But no MM games have you play through multiple games before you can fight the real final boss.

No MM games have connectivity between the games where you can transfer items, etc.

But yes... by most standards they are different games, and not just alternate versions like Pokemon Red/Blue. Silver/Gold, Ruby/Sapphire, etc, or Megaman Battle Network Blue/White or Bomberman Max Red/Blue or other things like that.

But I still I think the best classification, as I said before, it calling the pair together Zelda 7... 7A and 7B? :)

I know... they are more different than some random MM games... but still... there is one final boss!

[OB1]

That doesn't matter! It's just an added bonus to the games! There are many games where you can trade or bring over items to other games, like the Suikoden games for the PSX. They're most certainly full, individual games, but have some cool save transfer features. You can still play each Oracle game by itself and it'll be just as long as unique as any other entry to the series. They're just as much full Zelda games as Majora's Mask is.

[A Black Falcon]

Majora's Mask is probably more different from OoT than Oracles is from LA, though...

[OB1]

Maybe by a bit because of the three-day system, but it's also shorter. Each Oracle game is longer than MM.

[A Black Falcon]

Not once you factor in MM's irritation factor, no way... the Oracles games have one of the Zelda serieses best save systems. Only LA and WW are also that generous...

But in number of times you die? Yeah, they are harder than MM. They just aren't nearly as frusterating.

And I'd hardly call the conclusion of the games 'a small bonus'...

Maybe I was wrong to say that they are the same game, but I do think that they don't deserve to have two seperate numbers in the series.

[OB1]

Then neither does MM. You'll have to call that Zelda 5.5 if you don't want to call the Oracle games Zeldas 7 & 8.

[A Black Falcon]

Why? MM is less like its predecessor and isn't tied with another one story-wise...

Now, if they had come out like a year apart I'd probably call them different games, the second being a sequel. But they came out at the same time... that definitely factors into it.

[OB1]

That's the dumbest thing I've heard from you in a while. So I guess that means that Metroid Fusion and Metroid Prime aren't seperate games because they came out on the same day.

MM looks and controls just like OoT, and it has the exact same menus. It's just as different from OoT as the two Oracle games are to each other.

[A Black Falcon]

No... MM has improved graphics from OoT, more enemies, the day system, etc... OoA/S and LA don't have that much (if anything) differentiating them graphically.

Fine, call it whatever you want, but I'll call the Oracles series collectively Zelda 7... since each Zelda game is a story, and the two Oracles games interlock to form the complete story of the games... MM doesn't do that with OoT, it just continues on the end.

[OB1]

You're absolutely nuts, ABF. You've proven this time and time again but you never cease to amaze me.

MM uses the exact same engine as OoT, with just some slightly better textures and a wee bit of slowdown. Most of the enemies are the same, the controls are 100% identical, and the entire interface/HUD is 98% identical to OoT's. Every Zelda game has new enemies (even the Oracles), and the difference in graphics quality between OoT and MM is actually very comparable to Seasons and Ages (with Ages having a better, larger color palette). And the three day thing? Seasons has a four seasons system and Ages has a Back to the Future thing going for it.

[A Black Falcon]

Yes, yes, yes there are plenty of differences between the two games... but mostly for story purposes I just think that they make sense together. You cannot deny that none of the other Zelda games have interlocking stories like those two! Yes, they are different... but the two together form one story that only makes sense with both parts. Sort of like the two expansions for Disciples II...

[OB1]

Who cares about story in a Zelda game??! Take away the link feature and you still have two long, unique Zelda games that are just as different from each other as MM and OoT are!

[A Black Falcon]

I really do think that Ages and Seasons are more similar than OoT and MM, gameplay wise too... they both have different versions of the world and travel between them (major features in both games), they both have a very similar progression, lots of the same items, some of the same characters, the worlds look relatively similar, they both have the collectable rings, passwords which get you stuff in the other game, etc... they are the two most similar Zelda games.


And answer this. Which is '7' and which is '8'? :D

[OB1]

All of the Zelda games have similar progression. All of the 2D Zeldas aside from Zelda 2 have very similar-looking maps. All of the 3D Zeldas have similar-looking maps (yes, even WW with its water--take the water away and you have a regular-sized Hyrule). MM has the three-day system which allows for some pretty unique gameplay possibilities, but so do the Oracle games. The regular, "main" Zelda titles are pretty much identical to each other in terms of gameplay and progression. Zelda 1, LttP, LA, OoT, and WW are the standard Zeldas. Then there is Zelda 2, MM, and the Oracles which took the traditional Zelda formula and added their own twists to it which made for a different "gaiden" set of games. The seasons changing aspect of OoS, the time-traveling aspect of OoA (which, while time-travel is nothing new to the series, was done very differently in OoA), the three-day "Groundhog Day" system of MM, and the side-scrolling aspect of Link's Adventure. Aside from Zelda 2 all of those gaiden games looked and controlled just like the regular games.

And as for which one is 7 and which one is 8, I think ZHQ's order is the best one:

The Legend of Zelda (1)
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Adventure (2)
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (3)
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awaikening (4)
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (5)
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (6)
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages (7)
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (8)
The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker (9)

And then chronological order would be:

Link I:

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask

Link II:

The Wind Waker

Link III:

A Link to the Past
Oracle of Ages/Seasons
Link's Awakening

Link IV:

Legend of Zelda
The Adventure of Link

[Dark Jaguar]

I don't think Link 3 had anything to do with the Oracle games. I think the Oracle games should be considered an alternate reality story.

The only thing I'll say about chronology for numbering is if you look at the weird code on every Nintendo cartridge, you'll usually see something that's short for the game's name. For instance, Final Fantasy 3 for SNES has the characters "F6", meaning Final Fantasy 6. Super Mario All-Stars has the characters "M4", meaning 4 Mario games. In any case, Seasons and Ages have the codes "Z7" and "Z8" on them, respectively. So, if you decided to go with numbers, and counted the Oracle games as seperate, I guess you'd have to put Seasons first, then Oracles. That is, if you care at all about the little code there...

[OB1]

Hmm, that's interesting. Call Seasons Zelda 7 then, I guess.

The Oracle games fit perfectly into the Link III timeline, and that makes much more sense than just putting them into an alternate reality. Of course there's no decent, official Zelda timeline, but ZHQ's makes the most sense.

[A Black Falcon]

ZHQ lists Ages before Seasons? I don't see how anyone could list one before the other... they don't have an order... they go together and can go in either order. That's a clue that they are a bit different than game and sequel like OoT and MM (for classification purposes)... :)

Oh yeah, and LA, Ages, and Seasons... they don't specifically go in one spot. Yes, LA makes the most sense after LttP, but I've seen a semi-plausible case for putting it in several other places in the chronology... and as for Ages/Seasons, they could go absolutely anywhere. They have no specified place in the series... there is no backstory that nails it down to a specific Link, I think... or not much, anyway...

The rest of that chronology is of course correct.

Oh, DJ, I don't know if I'd use that code for getting the game name... :)

[OB1]

The Oracle games feature the same Link sprite as LA's, so you know...

[Dark Jaguar]

I'm not sure they DO fit perfectly in there though. I've read their chronology, and even commented on it with my own changes to it. It's either here or in the fallout shelter. It was a very long post...

[OB1]

Well find that post then.

[Dark Jaguar]

Eh, I'll get around to it... eventually...

[A Black Falcon]

Except we all know you won't...

Oh yeah, and while that is the same Link sprite as in LA, that doesn't mean much. LA's Link is supposedly LttP's, if you believe the chronology, yet he looks nothing like LttP's Link...

And as I said! LA doesn't have a hard location either, so if you say they belong with LA you aren't saying that they belong after LttP.

They just start in Hyrule... which rules out Link 2, but it really could be after AoL, MM, or LttP, I think...

[OB1]

That didn't make any sense. Repeat that for me, will ya?

[A Black Falcon]

the OoA/S Link sprites are the LA Link sprite. Correct, and expected since they share a game engine. However, that does not prove that they are the same Link. Note that the normal way to interpret LA is that its a sequel to LttP -- and that game's Link looks almost nothing like LA's Link!

My other point is that LA doesn't specify a place either and actually could be in several places in the chronology. LttP is just the most sensible one.

[OB1]

Well you can't really be sure of anything when it comes to Zelda, but ZHQ's timeline makes the most sense. I just wish Nintendo would release a good official one.

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, that would help a lot. But they just don't care...

[Great Rumbler]

I don't think even Shiggy could wade through the quagmire that is the Legend of Zelda storyline.

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, he'd have problems, given that it is badly lacking in facts and has so many quasi-contradictory 'facts' in it... they could muck through it but it'd require making up stuff.

[Great Rumbler]

That the whole point. He doesn't do it because it would take a lot of work and I'm sure he'd rather spend that time making GAMES.

[A Black Falcon]

But they should have thought of it when making the games...

[Great Rumbler]

And while they're doing that they should also make a coherent storyline for Mario! I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say it has been a long time coming!

[A Black Falcon]

Heh, now THAT would be quite the task... :D

[Great Rumbler]

You see, actually he went on vacation in Sunshine between Mario 1 and Mario 2. This is true because in a side-note in the manual for Mario 3 mentions that...

[A Black Falcon]

Oh, of couse...

[Dark Jaguar]

Except I actually CARE about the Zelda story, which is serious, as opposed to the Mario story, which is fun to the point where glaring plotholes announce their existance with flare and a Kart race, and you love the whole franchise for it!

Part of the fun of Zelda is being sucked into a fantasy adventure. Kinda hard for the immersion to be complete if the story sucks. Besides, the Zelda storyline seems to actually WORK by some miracle. However, they didn't just connect all the dots for us. Plus, to explain some of the small errors you have to accept things like stories getting slightly skewed in the details over time and retellings.

UPDATE! I finally updated this thing below. Read it for the new paragraphs. I also removed a couple WHOLE PARAGRAPHS containing some pre-WW stuff. The new stuff makes MUCH more sense.

In any case, first off, the idea of placing most of the Zelda 2 backstory long before OOT is something I think I'll buy. It does make a lot of sense. The backstory never did say for certain that the scroll and 6 jewels had to be put there by the same king as the one long long ago who had the first Zelda as a daughter, those could have (and according to this guy, was) placed there AFTER LTTP.

His Oracle explanation is interesting. I had always just placed them in alternate realities myself, but he found a very interesting way to go about placing them in the real world. On this point however, I think I'll stick with the alternate reality explanation. I'll just stick with the idea of an alternate world with Ganon, Link, Triforce, and some great earlier battle that killed Ganon. I'd place this alternate reality in a time era close to something like OOT, due to the characters there-in. Of course, for this to work, you have to accept that there actually is more than one triforce (unless you decide to link the essence's minds into one mind across all realities, like Mantarok), instead of thinking of the triforce as something SO special it only exists in ONE reality. Besides, I find the whole "inner world of the triforce" idea contrived at best.

With that in mind, I'd say that instead of the triforce being placed in the castle after LTTP, it was split, and THAT king was the one who wrote the scroll saying the third part was the most powerful (after all, he'd be aware that Link was the Juror of courage, since Link was actually there to revive him), and hid it in a far off land. Then, Link went on his journey in case Ganon should return.

From here, I agree again with his telling. He went to the dream world of the Wind Fish, where his memories and the Wind Fish's memories intertwine to create a world with icons from both. However, he missed something that I picked up on. I do believe that all signs point to the Wind Fish being Lord Jabu Jabu (since Oracle's story takes place in another reality in my version, it's easy to think of Jabu Jabu being in a different place here). The first sign is all the OOT-like stuff the wind fish is dreaming about, like the owl. The second is this question. What happened to Jabu Jabu after the freezing of the Zora's place in OOT? In Jabu Jabu's place is a very NOT fish shaped block of ice, that couldn't contain THAT fish's size, so he's not frozen in there okay? I suspect after the corruption of the land by Ganon, he abandoned his people and flew off. In fact, I suspect that in the very act of all this horrible stuff, the nightmares in his mind were created! This would explain WHY the wind fish is having nightmares to start with. The horrible stuff Jabu Jabu saw (and I do believe the title of Jabu Jabu was only given by the Zora, and not his official name) would have damaged his mind. He went into solitude, and fell into sleep. It took eons, but over time during his sleep the horrible images managed to pick away at his mental defenses, and eventually start trying to take over, just about the time that the LTTP Link showed up, and the Wind Fish's power in the real world took shape during his sleep and caused a storm to attack Link's ship, and you know what goes on from there. I like the explanation AND the deep story implications of it all.

With Wind Waker in the picture, the reasons why the sage's decendants are human is made FAR clearer. It would seem races, during periods of extreme calamity or change, can sometimes undergo an extreme metamorphesis under special conditions. These conditions usually involve having some deity to depend on or otherwise having a connection to an incredibly powerful magical being. In the case of the Kokiri, when the land became an ocean, the Deku Tree saw fit to change their form to something more tree like and lightweight so they could use the winds and fly from island to island. Thus, the Koroks. In the case of the flying species who's name I forget, it's clear they come from the Zora. After loosing Jabu Jabu, they seem to have come across another deity, the dragon. During the catastrophe, the dragon must have seen it fit to change the zora into a bird like race, flying through the air as effortlessly as they once swam. Why the dragon thought they would be better off flying when the whole land was converted into a place fit for SWIMMERS is another matter entirely :D. In any case, this game also reveals that the powers are handed down from the elder to the decendant rather directly, even if it must be done by the decendant's ghost, it's always done. So, it's not just something that happens to be passed down in a passive manner. In any case, with that in mind I theorize that the various races all eventually were forced to become human, probably due to the various sages having to follow Link to the new Hyrule. In fact, it's suggested by WW that maybe it's possible to hand down the sage's powers to even one not blood related. They may have eventually had to pick a human. This is merely hinted at as a possibility though, at least in my mind, and may not be the case. In any case it's nice to see Nintendo handling this mystery. They even went as far as to use the spirits of DECENDANTS of the sages rather than those sages themselve's spirits. So, we have a couple new sage names to add at that :D. This maintains Ganon's claim to take revenge on the decendants (even though LTTP would have kept that claim in place anyhow).



Going further back, to Majora's Mask. He stated the four who are there went there after the skull kid got that mask. On that point, he's off. They left to guard the land, and he only started pulling the pranks AFTER they left, in fact BECAUSE they left. Why they left may have been due to them seeing the future, but in any case, that's the reality of it. The skull kid only got that mask a long time later (after going to Hyrule and meeting Link in OOT), in fact, a couple days before Link found himself in Termina, when he stole it from the Mask Salesman.

He also stated he didn't want to go into what the inside of the moon represented. Well, I think I will. I do believe the moon represents the skull kid's mind, fused with Majora's mind. The lone kid by the tree represents his abandonment by his friends, who are all far away playing in a circle without him. The mask on the kid represents, well, the mask, after merging with him and darknening his thoughts even further, towards playing "games" of total catastrophe. The wearing of the Fierce Diety Mask may represent using darkness to defeat darkness. There may be a story involved in that, since I don't think one should ever use darkness, no matter the reason (especially since you can still beat Majora without the power, and it's more satisfying besides). That's about all I'll go into about that, for now.

My new theory on how Ganon got all three pieces rather than just power is easily handled by Wind Waker. My old one WAS in fact trounced utterly. Anyway, it would seem the two other pieces were kept safe in two ways. One as a mere "heirloom" (incomplete at that), the other broken apart and scattered across the sea (though wouldn't they have been safer hidden in complex dungeons? :D). It would seem the entire reason for Wind Waker is to explain plot holes between OOT and LTTP (or at least the entire reason it's set in this era anyway), because once again this does a great job of explaining why on Earth Ganon has the other two pieces. Simple, eventually he managed to escape again, TWICE in face (though honestly I haven't the slightest idea HOW he did, what with everything he had to do to escape in LTTP) and took them himself. He actually had them but only for a very short time. He was defeated by Link though, but rather than simply dying, he was turned to stone. I would assume that, much like actual petrification, he was actually replaced BY the stone as he himself was "washed away" back into the Dark World. What happened to the triforce though? It was left by itself with the king, who most likely died going down with the ship that is Old Hyrule. I submit that, left alone with no master, the Triforce did something it's likely programmed to do. It returned to it's original location. That's right, it placed itself right in the Dark World. Ganon once again claimed it where it stood just like over a century before. This time though, the dark world was closed off, so the pieces could not go to their jurors. Thus, Ganon claimed it all. Sad to think, but the very barrier keeping Ganon inside probably managed to promise him the greatest power of the triforce. As to why the seperate pieces on their own locked away from any possible users didn't return, they weren't complete and thus weren't capable of such an action.

In any case, he stated an interesting though weird theory that when Link was sent back in time by Zelda at the end of OOT, Zelda actually sent him back to experience a "phantom youth" and didn't grow up in the real world, but in fact a false Matrix type world. In other words, everyone he met in that phantom world was just a figment of the spell. Nothing was real. So, meeting Zelda again would just be meeting a "doll", and going to the alternate world of Termina would also be a false existance. I don't like the idea of that myself, though I understand why he would think it needed to explain the plot that way. To be honest, I think the time paradox can be explained thusly. I do believe that Zelda used the power of the triforce of wisdom and the song of time to send Link back, and in fact, restore the entire land of Hyrule to before Ganon corrupted it. I do believe all traces of Ganon's actions, from all the people he killed, to all the damage he did, was undone by this, the power of wisdom. However, the plot hole is revealed that, how did the tale of the imprisoning war get told onwards? I suspect that's easy to explain like this. Behold as I flow straight into the explanation...NOW! She would have used the triforce of wisdom right? Well, she may have undone all the bad elements, but she may have decided to maintain everyone's memory of all that happened. Thusly, the tale could have been passed. For, though the people and the land would have been restored (even backwards through time to when Ganon first claimed the triforce), the memories would remain. However, she could not destroy Ganon himself, or do a thing to the Sacred Realm which was blocked off from even Triforce power, so although what Ganon did was undone in the Light World, back in the new Dark World, he still had possession of the piece of power (time magic won't undo that), and still had all the memories of all that happened to himself. Oh, as a result, those he killed IN the Sacred Realm would still be dead, since Zelda could not restore any lives lost beyond the seal. This ties up everything except Link, who after all was actually physically sent back in time. Well, simple, he lived on a normal life for a boy named Link, going to another world and saving it, that sort of thing, but didn't really change anything Zelda set in place with the triforce of wisdom, until time finally "caught up" and he grew up into that era. The time issues are very hard to comprehend, but there aren't any paradoxes or anything this way. I prefer this to Link growing up in a totally fake world of fake...fakeness.

One other thing of note. Wind Waker, once again playing it's role of "plot hole explain awayer", manages to even explain why Hyrule in OOT looks so much different than Hyrule in LTTP. Simply put, Hyrule is a whole new land altogether! New Hyrule manages to have a few locations with the same name as the old ones though.

Okay, let's skip to when Link from LTTP, in this telling, finally beats the nightmares in the Wind Fish's head and wakes up lost at sea. We have no idea what happened there. He may have eventually got back to Hyrule (I certainly hope so), or some other land. If he made it to Hyrule, he could have started a family (the bloodline must continue), but eventually died himself. Once he died, again we start agreeing. His blood could have been used to restore Ganon. This is actually not too long after LTTP, but he is still VERY weak (the plot device we use), so he rests in Death Mountain for eons, due to his immortal nature he bestowed upon himself with one of his wishes to the triforce (but not invincibility, I guess he didn't wish hard enough, since we know from LTTP that a wish is expressed based on how strongly that wish is desired), yet triforceless. As we both believe, he decides to take back what he thinks is his, and steal the triforce of power once again from a new Zelda, in an era where the legends have apparently been long forgotten (and Death Mountain is off limits). He ravages the land trying to find the hidden wisdom pieces, but a new Link comes to get them first (fighting in a world damaged to the point where few people have survived, and they live in caves), and trounces him. Then, this Link grows to be 16 and gets a crest on his hand. Then, the really old legend of Zelda's name is told, and Link finds the scroll, which isn't nearly as old, but is pretty old anyway, telling where the piece of Courage is. So, Link goes off to find it, but is very careful, for if he dies (as is said in the manual, and is shown WHEN you get a game over), the followers of Ganon shall gather his blood and use it to revive Ganon once again. He gets courage back, and restores the very first princess Zelda. Nothing is said, the ending credits roll, and we are left wondering what AMAZING AND TOTALLY WOW story stuff she could give after all this time.

Ya know, I think I'll write a thesis on this :D. I could end up getting hired to write some Perfect Works storyline guide for the series, well, unless it turns out I suck... :D

Edit: Well, I noticed too the font was too small. I removed the smallfont tag. Now it looks like this. Kinda ugly, but you can read it... I suppose something in between should be picked eventually... Suggest a font size, win a prize!

[A Black Falcon]

ACK! Huge! Restore the much better small font!

[Dark Jaguar]

Consider it done my lord! I guess that shows people shouldn't complain about it huh?