TMNT!!!

[A Black Falcon]

Wow!

There are movies too... but not for free download.

Try Dorks DC... ;)

[OB1]

Looks great! The cel-shading isn't perfect (the shading is too soft in areas making it look a bit too 3D), but overall it looks good.

[Smoke]

And he looked upon it and said "Yea, TMNT is the shit".

[A Black Falcon]

Couldn't look better. :)

[OB1]

Yeah it could. :p

[A Black Falcon]

How?

[Dark Jaguar]

Hand drawn stuff TRIES to look 3D! What's wrong with it looking a bit 3D? It's all on a 2D screen, so CG or sprites, it's all a 2D image in the end, why not try to look 3D in all forms? When drawing, things like lines going to a single point (or for multiple light sources two or more points), and shading something so as to give it a sense of depth, is done all the time. Heck, Wind Waker looked VERY 3D, just not CG. I don't WANT something to look flat and purely 2d like a 5 year old drew it (except in the case of an art style like Yoshi's Island :D). I want a decent cell shading that gives the same 3D depth that a good artist can. It's easy enough when it's actually being rendered in 3D. Like ABF, I see no way it could get better, except the standard ways like rounding out the more blocky parts.

[OB1]

Wind Waker looked VERY 3D, just not CG.

It doesn't look CG? That doesn't make any sense. CG just means "computer-generated". Wind Waker's characters look very 2D, moreso than TMNT here.

And just because a drawing has a sense of dimension to it does not mean that it looks 3D. But we're talking about flat cartoons here.

Have you ever wondered why cel-shading makes 3D objects look like 2D ones? Do you know how it works?

[OB1]

I don't WANT something to look flat and purely 2d like a 5 year old drew it (except in the case of an art style like Yoshi's Island ). I want a decent cell shading that gives the same 3D depth that a good artist can.

That's an extremely ignorant thing to say. So if a piece of art doesn't look like a real 3D object then it's only as good as 5-year-old's drawings?? Tell that to Picasso then. He's famous for his flat art. Or what about Samurai Jack? That show has extremely flat characters and backgrounds yet it looks very good.

It's easy enough when it's actually being rendered in 3D. Like ABF, I see no way it could get better, except the standard ways like rounding out the more blocky parts.

It could look better. Some of the shading is too soft. In order for this type of cel-shading to work the best (making it look exactly like the cartoon but with the fluidity of a D model) they need to harden the shading in some parts of the models. It's a bit too easy to tell that it's a 3D model, but with a little work it could look exactly like the cartoon.

[Dark Jaguar]

They don't look 2D, just hand drawn. Having a sense of depth DOES make something look 3D! If you mean genuinly looking 3D, as in binocular vision, not even standard style CG (you know what i meant when I said CG...) looks 3d. It's still a 2D image displayed on a 2D screen. The look is everything, and Link SO looked 3D, just hand drawn with very nice 3D style.

[A Black Falcon]

It already looks exactly like the cartoon.

Oh, there are gameplay movies... insider/complete only though. I got them from the Dorks DC server... its pretty cool. Its like the old beatemup games... but new... :)

[OB1]

They don't look 2D, just hand drawn. Having a sense of depth DOES make something look 3D! If you mean genuinly looking 3D, as in binocular vision, not even standard style CG (you know what i meant when I said CG...) looks 3d. It's still a 2D image displayed on a 2D screen. The look is everything, and Link SO looked 3D, just hand drawn with very nice 3D style.

No he didn't. You could take single frames of Link from WW and plop him into a cartoon and he wouldn't stand out at all. The only way you tell that he was 3D was the way he moved since 2D animated characters cannot move like that.

[OB1]

It already looks exactly like the cartoon.

Not quite. The shading could use some slight tweaking.

[big guy]

i'll admit that link looked very 2D. and it was very impressive. the problem with the graphics in Wind Waker is that he was the only character (aside from the boat on a rare occasion) that looked 2D. all the rest just looked like shite 3D models.

but i agree with OB1 that the models here don't look QUITE like the hand drawn ones...at least not from these stills. and the background textures are really blurry.

[OB1]

Wha? All of the characters in WW looked awesome! Especially the rocs. They were perfect.

[A Black Falcon]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/402/402745p1.html

Short, but nice, preview.

[Laser Link]

I am really glad to see that Konami is not trying anything new. The old TMNT games were so fun and we haven't had anything like this in a long time.

[OB1]

Yeah this should be a ton of fun. 1-4 players, right?

[A Black Falcon]

I sure think so... and yeah, its great that its not changing the formula much. Those games are so great... they shouldn't be messed with. It'd just make them not as good...

[Dark Jaguar]

They can add things, but change none of the original stuff! This should be great fun. Now then, all we need is Ninja Turtles, Battletoads, and Double Dragon: Ultimate Team Super Mega Hyper Game! This should be classic multiplayer fun we haven't had in a LONG time. Now then, just make SURE that Super Mario Advance 4 has multiplayer mode in the SMB3 game and all is well with the world.

(You know, one cool thing they might add if they add anything to the formula is learning new moves as the game goes along. That's about all I wanna see added though, if anything.)

[OB1]

I hope they make a good 360 degree battle system, like The Mark of Kri's or that upcoming PS2 Jet Li game.

[Laser Link]

1-4 players, right?

Not for PS2. :p

[A Black Falcon]

There's a new Double Dragon game coming for GBA, I believe...

360 degree battle system? What's wrong with the style used in the old games? From the gameplay movies it looks like that, with more moves and stuff... and the funny cartoon word 'sound effects'...

[OB1]

What's wrong with the old system? That was made for 2D games, ABF.

[A Black Falcon]

And these are 3d games that try really hard to be 2d. Seriously... have you watched the gameplay movies? If not... WHY NOT? You ARE on the Dorks DC hub and could get them! Do that...

[Dark Jaguar]

Actually LL, the PS2 does support 4 player games, but only when you get the multitap. Yes, it does suck that they didn't just put 4 controller ports on it from the start...

[OB1]

They may be staying true to the original 2D games, but I'm sure the developers know that since the game is 3D they can't just use the same exact battle system from before.

[A Black Falcon]

Watch the trailer and gameplay movies. Then come back with complaints.

[Dark Jaguar]

By 360 degree, I assume you mean being able to attack in any direction and not just left and right, correct? Well then, I see no problem with that. I somehow think that's what they are doing anyway though, but I didn't bother watching those movies yet.

[OB1]

Well more specifically I'm talking about the battle systems in The Mark of Kri and the upcoming PS2 Jet Li game Rise to Honor. In The Mark of Kri (best 3D fighting system ever created) you use the right analogue stick to target enemies, and then you get a button assigned to each one (or a button for two guys if you're using the axe which allows you to attack eight people at once). And it can actually get very deep with some great blocking, countering, and combo moves.

With Rise to Honor you actually fight with the right analogue stick in combination with other buttons or something like that. I don't know exactly how it works, but let say if there's a whole group of enemies surrounding you all you do is point the analogue stick in the direction of each enemy to fight them (along with button presses). Bah, just read the preview at ign or somewhere.

[Darunia]

Wow that games does look pretty good, now that I take a look...the cel shading works good with it. Now the only question is, can this game resurrect the dead franchise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles...

[CartoonDevil]

Originally posted by OB1
Looks great! The cel-shading isn't perfect (the shading is too soft in areas making it look a bit too 3D), but overall it looks good.

This game looks exactly like the TV show, which is probably the goal the artists had in mind.

The turtles look good in cellshading.

A certain, unnamed elf wannabe, looks stupid in cellshading.

:shake:

[OB1]

It does not look exactly like the tv show. It still looks very 3D.

[Darunia]

A certain, unnamed elf wannabe, looks stupid in cellshading.


LOL, well put, Cartoon Devil...but I woudn't say it looks THAT much like the cartoon.

[OB1]

Ah yes, Wind Waker bashing. You kids are oh so clever.

[A Black Falcon]

It looks a LOT like the new cartoon... :)

[OB1]

It's close, but the shading is too soft.

Take a look at this piece of artwork. Notice how the shading around the arms are perfectly solid; they do not soften at the edges. The colors are very solid and they do not dissolve from light to dark, but rather the different shades are very seperate from each other, for lack of a better explanation.




Now take a look at this in-game screenshot. The way the models are shaded gives the characters a very 3D look. Instead of keeping the shadows solid and seperate they blend into the lighter skin. If you look closely you'll also notice that an additional shadow of the shadow on the models, which you can see more closely in third image. This wouldn't be a problem if it didn't make the edges of the models stick out so much.

[A Black Falcon]

If you say so... but I really can't see whatever you are talking about...

[OB1]

Are you serious?

Wow... you need to get your eyes checked, bubba.

[A Black Falcon]

Would "I don't understand what you were trying to say" work better?

[OB1]

You don't see the difference between the artwork and the in-game screenshot??

[A Black Falcon]

Ah, I get the color blending thing now... but what do you mean about shadows?

[OB1]

Look at that zoomed in picture.

[Laser Link]

OB1, I hate to tell yout his, but that's simply what happens when you do lighting and shading in 3D. Those polygons are at different angles with the the light source, so they have different shadows. Normally it would be blended better, but I think they are trying to get an obvious difference in the shadows- that's why they are using the cell shading.

[lazyfatbum]

*nods* lighting and shading in real time is a pain, that's why alot of games lack it. There's hope though, I heard there's some new programs and add ons for some of the top rendering programs that make lighting much more functional and logical. Unfortunately it's either still in production or costs boockoo bucks cuz no one has it, not even ILM.

Imagine RT3D and fully rendered scenes/models as easy as Photoshop. That means anyone with extra time on their hands could do a sequel to Shrek and then make the game for it all for the low low price of tens of thousands of dollars (compared to average projected costs of computer animation productions). And you got yourself one ginormous industry on it's ear trying to catch up with teenagers on their dad's PC. It's scary.

No one gives cell shading the credit it deserves. Really good cell shading is NOT easy and it has killed many programer's brains.

[OB1]

Oh I'm very well aware of the fact that cel-shading is very difficult to pull off, and I used that as an argument against a lot of the Wind Waker bashers back in the day. But I have seen cel-shading better than TMNT here, and it looked better because of the reasons I pointed out.