FF7 Remake

[jomarkiller]

Has anyone played FF7 Remake? I do very little gaming nowadays, but I was feeling nostalgic for PS1-era RPGs so I gave FF7 Remake Interograde (what a weird name) a couple hours of my time the other day. It's kind of cool being able to revisit the characters and the story of FF7 and my god does everything look gorgeous (I have spent entire uninterrupted... minutes just staring at the details on the underside of Midgar's plates) but I couldn't ignore how absolutely horrid and lame the writing was. I don't remember the writing/dialogue being this cringey in the 1990s. I'm guessing I was probably just a stupid kid back then and didn't know any better. 

Another thing that gets at me is how the game assumes knowledge of the original story. None of it seems like it would make sense or resonate unless you're already a fan and played the original.

It doesn't make sense to me that a game that took millions of dollars to develop would have such glaring issues. A lot of it feels it could've been written by a kid.

Anyway, I want to finish it, but I probably won't because I don't have the attention span for gaming anymore; my brain (like the brains of many...) has rotted to absolutely nothing from excessive YouTube and Reddit consumption.

[etoven]

Has anyone played FF7 Remake? I do very little gaming nowadays, but I was feeling nostalgic for PS1-era RPGs so I gave FF7 Remake Interograde (what a weird name) a couple hours of my time the other day. It's kind of cool being able to revisit the characters and the story of FF7 and my god does everything look gorgeous (I have spent entire uninterrupted... minutes just staring at the details on the underside of Midgar's plates) but I couldn't ignore how absolutely horrid and lame the writing was. I don't remember the writing/dialogue being this cringey in the 1990s. I'm guessing I was probably just a stupid kid back then and didn't know any better. 

Another thing that gets at me is how the game assumes knowledge of the original story. None of it seems like it would make sense or resonate unless you're already a fan and played the original.

It doesn't make sense to me that a game that took millions of dollars to develop would have such glaring issues. A lot of it feels it could've been written by a kid.

Anyway, I want to finish it, but I probably won't because I don't have the attention span for gaming anymore; my brain (like the brains of many...) has rotted to absolutely nothing from excessive YouTube and Reddit consumption.

I did and it was amazing right up until Sony decided everyone needed ban PlayStation for the last chapter.

[jomarkiller]

I was worried because I am probably never buying a console ever again (my last was a PS2) and if I ever finish the first two FF7 Remake games I would definitely want to play the final one as well. 

I see on https://gamingbolt.com/final-fantasy-7-r...quare-enix it says that the last game is coming to PC, so maybe Square changed their minds? We'll see.

[Geno]

I have played FF7 Remake on the PS4. I don't yet have a PS5 (I hope to get one by the end of this year, but with home repairs [namely a leaky roof], it may have to wait), so I haven't played Rebirth. I really want to, though. Admittedly, the nostalgia is strong for me.

As for my thoughts on FF7 Remake: Overall, I like it. I think the battle system is a huge improvement over what we had on the PS1. I don't mind turn-based (or Active Time Battle), but it's admittedly a relic of its time (granted, I play tabletop games these days, so even now, turn-based combat doesn't bother me, and I guess even in the world of video games, Clair Obscur has shown that there is still a place for turn-based combat in the modern gaming world). The new combat is real-time and faster-paced, similar to modern RPGs like The Witcher or The Elder Scrolls. (Is The Elder Scrolls still modern when Skyrim came out 14 years ago? I don't know. And yes, I know the first few installments came out in the 90s.) The graphics are obviously a lot better, and the voice acting is very good (in that regard, the series has come a long way from HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!).

As for the story, it largely follows the Midgar section of the original game, with the main story beats mostly intact. However, the different sectors are much bigger, there are more NPCs mulling about, and the little moments are made much bigger and grander. Minor characters like Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie, who largely existed to be cannon fodder in the OG game, are given a lot more spotlight and backstory. Brand new content is added surrounding them and other new characters. Also, there is actively a war between Shinra and the town of Wutai, which in the original game was an optional area of little plot significance, though it did a brief lore drop in the original game about having lost a war with Shinra, as I recall? Its main significance was being Yuffie's hometown (and Yuffie was, herself, an optional character in the original game, so all this content was skippable in 1997). Yuffie doesn't even appear in the first installment of the Remake trilogy. She apparently appears in the DLC Intergrade, which I've never played, as well as in part 2, Rebirth.

But yeah... as far as big changes go, there are these things called whispers, I think it was? They seem to be there to ensure that the game doesn't deviate from the original game's path, as if preserving the authentic timeline kind of like the TVA from the Marvel series Loki. It's... honestly kinda lame. From what I've heard about Rebirth, it sounds like they're doing some multiverse crap, and... I don't know how I feel about that. It's not that I need these games to be a shot-for-shot recreation of the OG game, and some of the changes they've made are good. (For instance, I like that Jessie was a performer at the Gold Saucer. That's some fun new lore.) But where the changes fall flat for me are when the whispers literally act as a deus ex machina to keep the characters from dying at the wrong time. That's just... not good writing.

The ending sequence (right after the motorcycle minigame when Cloud and the gang are escaping from Midgar) results in a weird Kingdom Hearts-esque boss fight. I don't want to give too much away. It was a little out of place, but I can see why they felt the need to make the ending to the Midgar section more climactic than it was in the original game given that this is the end point for Remake itself.

I've seen clips from Rebirth, particularly from the Gold Saucer dates, and I'm honestly excited to play it. I'm in no big hurry, though, given how long we had to wait after Remake for Rebirth's release, so I anticipate that the third installment won't be out for a while. Maybe when all three parts have been released, they'll eventually release a complete collection including all DLC. We'll see.

[Dark Jaguar]

Personally I think gaming culture holds "spoilers" far too preciously, so I'm just going to say it.  In this game, the story has a meta-commentary where the threads of fate are trying to force this world to follow the "intended" story of the original game, and you have to "sever" those threads by the end and defy fate to make this story it's own.

Frankly, this is critical information more people considering whether or not to buy this game should know!  I wasn't at all interested in it until someone actually told me that, and then I was intrigued. 

I would like to know what exactly you consider "bad" or "cringey" writing and request, if you would, to elaborate on that a bit.  While I'm not going to come to the defense of the writing in this remake, I can at least say it's better than the original translation, which was so infamously bad that at points characters said exactly the opposite of what was intended in the Japanese script, and for that reason I recommend the "Reunion" fan translation of the original version these days.  It's also pretty shoddy English in many places besides, and inconsistent with items like the Megaelixer being called "Last elixer" in one spot.  In that sense, the new version is actually written with good english and I appreciate that.

What I less appreciate are the odd accent choices that the English translators have made over the years.  Not just Barret being given a "Mr. T" dialect, but Cait Sith being made Scottish ever since the movie.  When exactly ONE character in that whole setting speaks that way, it beg the question of where all the OTHER Scottish characters are, in the same way one has to ask why Barret is the one black man in all the world (which admittedly is a problem in the original version too).

My bigger issue is the one I knew was going to happen when I found out they were splitting the remake into multiple parts.  They felt the need to write in a full story arc with a climax and denouement for part 1.  I get why, don't misunderstand, but it makes the overall story feel not just disjointed, but rather inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.  Who cares about Aerith getting back to the holy land and a meteor being summoned when COSMIC ENTITIES CONTROLLING OUR FATES are floating around?  Imagine if SpiderHyphenMan randomly met Galactus and then just went back to beating up Green Goblin Man, and then won that fight, credits roll, yay, but you're there asking "Wait a sec, what about that GIANT ROBOT GOD?! Aren't we going to do something about THAT?"

It's an escalation of stakes that takes a bit of the impact from the main story, is all I'm saying.

Also, and I never once thought I'd say this, but in part 2?  There's way too many mini-games!  I was told there'd only be a FEW mini-games.  This is a terrible vacation.  I love sidequests and mini-games and so on, but there's just so many, and they are so EXTENSIVE, that I feel like I forgot what game I'm actually playing.

But back to my original point, what do you feel are issues that are "glaring" to the extent you'd say it was written by "a kid"?  I can't say I speak for a true newcomer, but since they are still retelling the original story, though obviously with some changes after defying fate itself, it should be at least as easy to pick up or follow the impact of things as it was in the original game.

If nothing else, I do appreciate that they made the other members of Avalanche into more fully fledged characters, though making Jesse have a crush on Cloud came out of nowhere, at least to me.

Oh, as for the switch from turn based to real time?  I don't at all thing that's a "relic of the past".  I think that deserves a place at the table as a distinct style of play, focusing on strategy over twitch reactions.  I'm glad they leave in some options to switch to at least SOMEWHAT of a turn based style in the game.  It's unique, I'll give it that, but it's not like when I play Chess I'm thinking to myself "this is dumb, my whole army should just rush them at once!".

[Geno]

To elaborate on my earlier claim of bad writing, admittedly, I did not have the context you provided on what the whispers are and why they are acting as they do as I've only played Remake, not Rebirth. During my experience of Remake (I'm going to go ahead and enter into spoiler territory myself now), the whispers were preventing characters from dying, whether it was Barret getting stabbed or the gang's car being protected from an explosion. It seemed like the whispers were making the characters temporarily immortal, unable to die until the original game's story calls for them to do so (looking at you, Aerith). Again, I haven't played Rebirth, so I don't have the full context, and maybe it isn't bad writing when one has all the context to understand why the whispers are acting as they do. To me at the time, playing Remake in 2020, it looked like the whispers were acting as plot armor for the characters.

Based on what you're telling me from Rebirth, though, it sounds like the whispers are somewhat of a meta-commentary on the fandom, wanting the maintain the "purity" of the original game's story and refusing to allow any kind of deviation; again, I'm personally fine with them making changes to the plot, and in modern gaming, alternative paths, choices, and outcomes are pretty standard fare (this is something I feel the Witcher games do very well, and even the original FF7 had a small variation of this trope in the form of the Gold Saucer dating sequence).

As far as the English translation is concerned, yes, the original 1997 western release of FF7 was god awful in terms of not only its grammar, but even its intended meaning. In the very first boss fight, it tells you "Attack it when it's[sic] tail is up!" That's the literal opposite of what you're supposed to do; they forgot the word "don't." There are many other typos, from Aerith's (or Aeris's) infamous line "This guy are sick" to the Battle Arena's response option of "Off course!" when it means to say "Of course!" I'm glad to hear there is a better English translation out there because what they did in 1997 was... sloppy.

I think Cait Sith (pronounced Ket-Shee) is derived from Scottish/Celtic folklore, but yeah, it is a bit jarring that he's the only character with a Scottish accent. And Barret, while not a badly written character, is a tad problematic in terms of the racial stereotypes, especially given that he's the only black character we see in this entire world. He perpetuates the "angry black man" archetype, and while having a black man be angry isn't in itself racist, and he has very valid reasons for being angry, in his early appearances before we learn his back story, he's portrayed almost comically angry, and again, he's the only representation of black people in the entire game, so... yeah. He mellows out eventually when Cid takes his place as the angry, foul-mouthed party member, but even then, Cid doesn't have a prosthetic gun-arm. He does give off Mr. T vibes, but I'll at least say they had the decency to cast a black man to do his voice. Even then, having a black man play Uncle Remus in Song of the South hardly made that character less problematic (less problematic than a white man in blackface, obviously, but still problematic in that he was being written by white writers and was based on a literary character also written by a white man, with stereotypes abound).

Honestly, I agree with you about turn-based combat still having a place in modern gaming, despite my earlier "relic of the past" comment. I guess when I'm introducing new people to classic Final Fantasy, I automatically take on an almost apologetic tone for its combat system because I know a lot of people find it... less approachable if they're accustomed to faster-paced gaming. Again, I love classic Final Fantasy (and there was a time when I, too, had to learn how it works coming from games like Zelda and Mario), I play chess from time to time, and again, I love tabletop gaming. I like the slow-paced, strategical element of these types of RPGs. I've known a lot of people who don't like that style of gameplay, though, so I guess I tend to paint them as "non-entry-level" gaming experiences. That sounds elitist, and God knows I'm not the most hardcore of gamers, especially these days (I'm grateful when I find the time to play games at all), but again, I've known quite a number of people who might have enjoyed the stories, characters, and worlds of games like pre-gambit-system Final Fantasy, but they have described the games as unapproachable because of the combat. There is a learning curve for those not accustomed to that gaming style, I suppose, but maybe I shouldn't call it a "relic of the past."

[Dark Jaguar]

No notes honestly, I see exactly where you're coming from on all points!

Everyone's got different tastes, and I'm not about to say someone's personal preferences are right or wrong.  So, I get if someone prefers more real time action, and I get when someone prefers more methodical strategy, and I also get if someone doesn't want to engage with combat at all and prefers puzzle solving, like how my mother prefers point and click adventure games as her favorite genre.

My tastes are very wide, so I'm one of the few who played, say, Doom Eternal and loved it's platforming elements, because I love platformers AND boomy shooties.  That said, I totally get why someone who likes shooters but isn't big on platformers found those elements unwelcome.

Anyway, yes that meta-commentary is interesting and it remains to be seen just what they intend to do.  It's not a major factor in "part 2", now that the threads of fate are well and truly severed thanks to the crew's actions at the end of part 1, so while those whispers won't be saving anyone's lives going forward, it doesn't seem like they'll be going out of their way to ensure anyone's death either.  We may get an Aerith that survives this, or we may get a Sephiroth who joins the team for that matter.  It's very open going forward.  Also, without spoiling anything in the new game, they seem to have some new plans regarding what happened back with Cloud and Zack as well.

[Geno]

Update: I have a PS5 now. My wife was like "Screw it, put it on the credit card; we deserve a treat!" I look forward to coming back to this thread with some commentary on Rebirth. I've been dying to play it for the past year, honestly. A replay of Remake might be in order as well.

[Dark Jaguar]

I wonder what part 3 is going to be called. Re... something I'm sure.  Reunion perhaps, but that's pretty low hanging fruit.  Maybe Revisit?  Reflection?

[Geno]

Reunion makes sense, even if it might be overly obvious--low-hanging fruit, as you said. But I'd be fine with that name. Or either of the ones you suggested. Retelling, perhaps? That would be accurate. I think we can agree that the prefix "re-" will be used in some way for consistency's sake.