Wii wish you a Merry Christmas

[Weltall]

I didn't do one last year, because last year, I was extremely busy (working towards something ultimately futile). I wanted to, but I could never find the time to actually do it.

This year, I have no such endeavors to occupy me, so I made a new Christmas theme for 2006. You guys all know where to find it.

[etoven]

Additionally the theme has been enhanced with the new TendoCity information bar. I desperately worked all night to try to make it compatible with FireFox, but had little success. For now those who wish to utilize the information bar features, such as no refresh quick search, you must view the page in IE.

Rest assured I will continue to try to make it compatible with your crappy browser (which ruined any chance of a nights sleep tonight), so everyone can be happy. :)

Well done on the theme Ryan and merry Christmas to you all.

[Sacred Jellybean]

Lookin' good.

[Dark Jaguar]

What exactly does this information bar do? For the life of me I can't discern a purpose behind it.

[DMiller]

Rest assured I will continue to try to make it compatible with your crappy browser (which ruined any chance of a nights sleep tonight), so everyone can be happy.

The crappy browser is the one that doesn't follow the standards. Whenever I design a website I always design it based on HTML/CSS standards, which usually results in a site that works perfectly in Opera, Firefox, Mozilla, and Safari. Then I have to go back and implement all of these workarounds to get the site to work in IE. Things would be so much easier for everyone if Microsoft would simply follow the standards.

[etoven]

What exactly does this information bar do? For the life of me I can't discern a purpose behind it.

Eventually I will hold several more quick link buttons, for now you can search the site without having to leave, refresh or navigate away from the site.

Search results appear in a layer that doesn't require a page refresh or you to navigate away from the page.

[etoven]

The crappy browser is the one that doesn't follow the standards. Whenever I design a website I always design it based on HTML/CSS standards, which usually results in a site that works perfectly in Opera, FireFox, Mozilla, and Safari. Then I have to go back and implement all of these workarounds to get the site to work in IE. Things would be so much easier for everyone if Microsoft would simply follow the standards.

I beg to differ, speaking as a web developer with over 10 years experience, FireFox doesn't render CSS properly, It's good a but load of cool new web standards that arent even supported (active X, vb-script, some .Net features and MSXML call backs are just the tip of the ice burg), and half the time doesn't even render properly formatted CSS2 markup properly (OW WAIT! It doesn' t support CSS2!!!! JUST CSS1! AND It dosn't display 24bit PNG images with alpha transparency properly AAAAAAAAAAAH!:cuss: ). Just getting my program to work under Mozilla was a bitch and a half, there where way to many comprises and workarounds! I spend 30 minutes getting my program running under IE, and 7 and a half hours trying to make it compatible under FireFox.

Finally I just gave up for the night. To say that FireFox, or Opera does a better job of rendering markup (via, on your website) is F-ing ridiculous. FireFox sucks at rendering anything beyond basic HTML.

[etoven]

Further more, why stick a stick up a browsers ass and support only agreed upon standards. They have been arguing over what HTML, CSS should evolving into for years!!! The end agreed upon result is a standard that gets nothing DONE!!! If your a serious programmer you have to WORK outside the box, not conform to "this we can't decide how big tables should be bullshit".

Microsoft embraces new technologies that make the world better for everyone, and make the web easier to program for the user.

FireFox and Opera has a beuracratic poll up the browsers ass, and as a result things are ten times more complicated then they need to be.

Nothing gets done, when you argue over standards.

[DMiller]

I beg to differ, speaking as a web developer with over 10 years experience, FireFox doesn't render CSS properly,It's good a but load of cool new web standards that arent even supported (active X, vb-script, some .Net features and MSXML call backs are just the tip of the ice burg),

Those are not web standards. Those are proprietary Microsoft creations. It's like me saying that your computer doesn't conform to standards because it doesn't allow coding in the Cocoa development environment, which is a proprietary Apple product. Javascript, Perl, PHP, and Python are more than powerful enough to code on a web site, and, besides Javascript, they can all be guaranteed to run in any browser as they are server-side dependent.

and half the time doesn't even render properly formatted CSS2 markup properly (OW WAIT! It doesn' t support CSS2!!!! JUST CSS1!

I don't where you get that, but I looked it up here and found that IE 7 only supports 43% of CSS2 while Opera supports 86% and Firefox 2 is fully-compliant.

Just getting my program to work under Mozilla was a bitch and a half, there where way to many comprises and workarounds! I spend 30 minutes getting my program running under IE, and 7 and a half hours trying to make it compatible under FireFox.

Finally I just gave up for the night. To say that FireFox, or Opera does a better job of rendering markup (via, on your website) is F-ing ridiculous. FireFox sucks at rendering anything beyond basic HTML.

Web development isn't easy at this point, but that is why we have web standards. As someone who has developed web sites for 10 years you probably remember how much harder it was even as little as 5 years ago. The point of web standards, though, are not to make the web developers job easier, although that will come with time. The point of web standards is to make things easier for the user. If a person visits a web site that doesn't support their browser most people aren't going to go download the browser they need. The vast majority will simply not visit that site again. When designing a web site every change made should be made with the thought "How does this affect the user experience?" If it doesn't have any affect, or if it breaks browser compatibility then its addition should be rethought. Eventually web standards will make it so you don't have to test your page in every browser, but things are made a lot harder with MS going in a different direction from everyone else.

You are obviously a very gifted programmer Eric, just given what you've done here and on your site, but if you design a feature for TC that only works in a browser that most of us here don't use then you really need to rethink things. Web development is incredibly difficult, and I would say more difficult than general programming, but it will become so much easier if people follow the standards.

[etoven]

I agree in the that FireFox complacency is crucial to a divorce user-base so I am still pursuing adapting my application for FireFox users.

In general I am just pissed off at all the compromises I will have to make. I'm going to have to retard down my program just to make it FireFox compliant (if it will even run at all), and the way FireFox handles style sheets I will properly have to compromise the look I was going for as well.

BTW, FireFox CSS2 complacency was thoroughly testing last night while I was designing the look and feel of the component, your source who clames full CSS2 compliance for FireFox is utter BS.

Microsoft has done some amazing things with their browser, Mozilla, and Opera needs to remove their huge bureaucratic rod from their browsers ass, and adopt some of these great technologies. Vb-script API, MSXML, ActiveX, and .NET all have open API's and could easily be adopted by a number of browsers with no objection from Microsoft. I'm sure if the new release of FireFox ran vb-script (which could be implemented in as little as 5 minutes, thanks to vb-script activeX compiler API), old Bill would mess his pants with joy. But no FireFox had to follow standards and be with the browser "in" crowd, and as a result their years behind in modern browsing technology.

[Dark Jaguar]

Personally I don't have much issue just using the normal search feature in a separate window. What I'd like to see, the thing that would really make tabbed browsing actually useful to me, is if (just like with windows) I could have one right next to the other. Though, I suppose having a search sort of "drop down" and stick around is kinda interesting.

[A Black Falcon]

Vb-script API, MSXML, ActiveX, and .NET

Good browsers don't bow to Microsoft and do everything they say just because "everyone uses IE", that's for sure...

The fact that Mozilla/Firefox/Seamonkey doesn't have ActiveX is one of the GOOD things about the browser. Horrible insecure thing...

I'm sure if the new release of FireFox ran vb-script (which could be implemented in as little as 5 minutes, thanks to vb-script activeX compiler API), old Bill would mess his pants with joy. But no FireFox had to follow standards and be with the browser "in" crowd, and as a result their years behind in modern browsing technology.

I look at it from exactly the opposite perspective -- if only Microsoft thought that following standards was a good thing we could have one, but they think that they can just do their own thing and make everyone follow along, so we don't... and the result is incompatibility sometimes between the two systems -- but the answer is not to abandon the standards, certainly. That would give Microsoft the victory and admit that MS can dictate online system policy, somehting very much against the whole concept of browsers like Mozilla/Firefox... Microsoft is the problem, not the web standards. Just because you think MS is the best and deserves to make everyone on the internet follow its designs doesn't make it so. :)

Microsoft has done some amazing things with their browser,

Sometimes only four or five years after the competition thought about and probably implemented the idea! :D

[Dark Jaguar]

Sorry, but I have to say I hate ActiveX.

[EdenMaster]

I like the theme, Ryan! I especially like the little Ralphies to show new posts :D.

One ungrateful complaint: The test is abit hard to read, I dunno if the background or the text is too dark or what.

Yunno, constructive criticism.

*is stoned by Ryan*

[A Black Falcon]

Sorry, but I have to say I hate ActiveX.

Yet you still use IE?

[Dark Jaguar]

IE works just fine for me. I just have no use for that "feature". At any rate, the vast majority of the intertron doesn't even use activex anyway, and MS seems to be phasing it out just a tad, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Java is where it's at.

[Trogdor]

Nice skin, I like the christmas story kid to the left of every thread.

[etoven]

Update: TovenNet Information bar is now running in beta form for Mozilla
(with out search function, will continue to work on that)

RSS, and Live.com integration fully functional!
Enjoy!

[Dark Jaguar]

Okay, I have to ask, what the heck is up with the weird kid with glasses on the posts?

[Weltall]

If you don't know, your disconnection from television must be even more complete than mine, and that's pretty damn impressive.

[Great Rumbler]

DJ doesn't know about Ralphie? That's just sad.

[A Black Falcon]

Ralphie who?

[Dark Jaguar]

DJ doesn't know about Ralphie? That's just sad.

I'm afraid that's not an answer of any sort at all. Who? Something about a TV show then?

[Weltall]

He's the main character of "A Christmas Story", which everyone in the entire universe, minus two people, have seen at least once in their lives.

[Great Rumbler]

This thread is really making me depressed now. *goes to watch Christmas Vacation and A Christmas Story"

[A Black Falcon]

He's the main character of "A Christmas Story", which everyone in the entire universe, minus two people, have seen at least once in their lives.

Me and DJ you mean? :)

... I'm not sure if I've seen it or not. Probably not, but maybe... those christmas movies are all so similar... if it's black & white like that pic unlikely I guess (I know I have seen a b&w christmas movie or two before, but what ones... I really don't know. It's a Wonderful Life? Erm, I don't know...)...

[Great Rumbler]

those christmas movies are all so similar...

*sigh*

[Dark Jaguar]

It's true though. Anyway, I've seen all the important classics, and by important I mean, just like everyone else here, the ones I've SEEN.

A Christmas Story eh? The name sounds familiar. What was it about? Old black and white movie right? Is that the one about two front teeth? Seriously you aren't being very helpful.

[Great Rumbler]

It's true though.

The bad ones maybe.

Old black and white movie right?

No.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085334/

[Weltall]

I'm willing to bet ten American dollars that at least one of them have seen it and are simply perpetrating mind games.

The phrase "living under a rock" is typically used as hyperbole, but in the case of A Christmas Story, it would have to be your literal living conditions... it's everywhere during the Christmas season. There are channels that devote entire days to the movie, playing it over and over and over without stopping. It's part of Christmas ads. It's got catch-phrases people still use casually. It has to be one of the most recognizable and iconic motion pictures in American film history.

So yes, under a rock. Or dead.

[Dark Jaguar]

Hold on, this is NOT an old black and white movie, it's within my living memory? THAT is supposed to be a classic icon of Christmas? Oh sure, like Jingle All The Way or The Santa Claus are now "classics" right? Pfft! That's not a classic. It's a Wonderful Life, or The Grinch, or Miracle on (I can't remember numbers well) Street, THERE are your classics. That's RECENT, because I was ALIVE at the time, and so it can't ever count, EVER!

At any rate, I don't watch "The Hallmark Channel", or even much TV at all. I've said it before but I basically just watch the Science channel, Cartoon Network, and like 3 shows on Comedy Central, so yes I could easily miss it. Just because it's "on the TV" constantly doesn't mean people who are actually living a life outside of it have to be dead. It's not like all existence must obey the whims of "the TV" or even be aware of it. Honestly I'm shocked that you apparently think it's something I can't possibly have avoided exposure to. I've seen plenty of Christmas classics, just not THIS one. Is that really that hard to believe? Must I have seen ALL of them? I'm sure there's plenty of gaming classics you've never played, perhaps never even heard of, even though you may have played plenty of other classics.

What lines are being quoted from this anyway? Remember, a quote can only be recognized AS a quote if you know the source material. I may have just thought it a weird expression.

Edit: That whole IMDB thing really never provides that much information on a movie does it? I have a basic PREMISE and a list of quotes. Oh, and credits I don't care about. Wikipedia, it ain't.

[Sacred Jellybean]

Probably the most common quote from that movie is, "You'll shoot your eye out." The line is told to Ralphie by his mother, teacher, and probably a couple others, when they find out he wants a bee-bee rifle for Christmas.

[Dark Jaguar]

Did a line like that actually originate from a movie? I mean that's not even really a line! That's like "don't run with scissors". Typical stuff parents warn their kids about. I find it hard to believe that qualifies as a "line" that society absorbed. I mean I hear it all the time, year round, and not as a "quote" as all but as a warning not to play with that.

[EdenMaster]

Basic Premise:

A little boy named Ralphie really, really wants a Red Ryder BB Gun, and is trying his hardest to try and get it, asking is mother, his teacher, a mall Santa, and the universal response is "You'll shoot your eye out", as Ralphie says: "The classic parent-BB Gun block".

It is THE Christmas movie. TBS plays it over and over all day Christmas Day and it's all over the place in the weeks leading up to Christmas.

I did meet someone recently who had not seen the movie, so I forced them to watch it. It was a situaiton that I had to remedy as soon as possible.

[Weltall]

Hold on, this is NOT an old black and white movie, it's within my living memory? THAT is supposed to be a classic icon of Christmas? Oh sure, like Jingle All The Way or The Santa Claus are now "classics" right? Pfft! That's not a classic. It's a Wonderful Life, or The Grinch, or Miracle on (I can't remember numbers well) Street, THERE are your classics. That's RECENT, because I was ALIVE at the time, and so it can't ever count, EVER!

If it was in your lifetime, it was just barely. I was only a year old when it came out.

At any rate, I don't watch "The Hallmark Channel", or even much TV at all. I've said it before but I basically just watch the Science channel, Cartoon Network, and like 3 shows on Comedy Central, so yes I could easily miss it.

Except for sports, I don't watch any TV. Ever.

Just because it's "on the TV" constantly doesn't mean people who are actually living a life outside of it have to be dead. It's not like all existence must obey the whims of "the TV" or even be aware of it. Honestly I'm shocked that you apparently think it's something I can't possibly have avoided exposure to. I've seen plenty of Christmas classics, just not THIS one. Is that really that hard to believe? Must I have seen ALL of them? I'm sure there's plenty of gaming classics you've never played, perhaps never even heard of, even though you may have played plenty of other classics.

That's hardly a fair comparison. Sure, there are probably gaming classics I've never played or heard of, but a fair comparison would have me saying "What's a Nintendo?" Even people who don't play videogames typically have at least heard of Nintendo or Playstation. It's not just a television thing, I hear it quoted on the radio, I see merchandise, people wear T-shirts (I have two!), and the movie is so fantastically over-exposed by being played literally hundreds of times every year through those all-day marathons (I've even seen them do it in the summer, under the "Christmas in July" excuse, whatever the hell that is) that I can't conceptualize any American person roughly my age never even knowing it existed, even by pure accident.

In any case, now that we've made you aware of it, you really ought to see it. Over-exposed though it may be, it's still one of the best Christmas movies there is.

[Dark Jaguar]

If there's merchandise, I've certainly never seen it. I've also never heard it on the radio (the classical music station), but then again the station I listen to isn't exactly some "dingo and the baby" nonsense where people run around hitting random sound effects buttons and calling it comedy.

I mean I've just never heard of it. It happens. At no point in my life was this presented to me, and why would it have been? People don't just show up and stick random tapes in my VCR. I'm sure there's plenty of movies I've never heard of. I'm just not part of "the movie circle". It's not like it's Mickey Mouse here. I doubt this movie is THAT popular, I mean I never heard of it until now.

[Weltall]

I'm sure it happens. I'm sure it's not a statistical impossibility, but you must really, really be cut off from almost every walk of popular culture to have gone more than two decades in complete ignorance of something so painfully eminent during the season.

And, if you choose to get touchy, I didn't mean 'ignorant' in a bad sense, only in a purely literal fashion.

[A Black Falcon]

*reads IMDB description*

Nope, never heard of it before. Sorry.

Hold on, this is NOT an old black and white movie, it's within my living memory? THAT is supposed to be a classic icon of Christmas? Oh sure, like Jingle All The Way or The Santa Claus are now "classics" right? Pfft! That's not a classic. It's a Wonderful Life, or The Grinch, or Miracle on (I can't remember numbers well) Street, THERE are your classics. That's RECENT, because I was ALIVE at the time, and so it can't ever count, EVER!

Agreed completely... :)

I mean, I remember watching that Arnold Schwarzenegger christmas movie (one or twice?), but I wouldn't exactly call it a classic...

At any rate, I don't watch "The Hallmark Channel", or even much TV at all. I've said it before but I basically just watch the Science channel, Cartoon Network, and like 3 shows on Comedy Central, so yes I could easily miss it.

I watch CNN, Cartoon Network, Boomerang, sometimes CNN Headline News or PBS, and most of the time that's about it. :) (and even that's usually just on in the backround while I use the computer)

... there are lots of things "everyone has heard" or whatever I know little or nothing about, and I don't see anything at all wrong with that...

That's hardly a fair comparison. Sure, there are probably gaming classics I've never played or heard of, but a fair comparison would have me saying "What's a Nintendo?" Even people who don't play videogames typically have at least heard of Nintendo or Playstation. It's not just a television thing, I hear it quoted on the radio, I see merchandise, people wear T-shirts (I have two!), and the movie is so fantastically over-exposed by being played literally hundreds of times every year through those all-day marathons (I've even seen them do it in the summer, under the "Christmas in July" excuse, whatever the hell that is) that I can't conceptualize any American person roughly my age never even knowing it existed, even by pure accident.

You exaggerate, I'm sure... just because you've heard of it doesn't mean everyone has!

[Dark Jaguar]

I'm sure it happens. I'm sure it's not a statistical impossibility, but you must really, really be cut off from almost every walk of popular culture to have gone more than two decades in complete ignorance of something so painfully eminent during the season.

And, if you choose to get touchy, I didn't mean 'ignorant' in a bad sense, only in a purely literal fashion.

No no I'm clearly ignorant of this movie. I'm just saying that your assumption that I have to be "cut off from almost every walk of popular culture" is, well, pretty off. I've just never heard of it. It happens. I can't have heard of EVERY bit of popular culture. That's a pretty big expectation. I will say I don't follow hollywood or movies in general that much, or at all really, but I don't know anyone in hollywood so you'll forgive me if I don't really see that as a problem. Doesn't affect me and isn't really important to much of anything.

What surprises me is those people who have gone for decades without knowing what a black hole is or what e=mc^2 means. Now those people's education has failed them utterly, and that shocks me because it's ubiquitous. I mean black holes are EVERYWHERE, more so than that movie, in books, music, TV (they sometimes run entire days of nothing but black hole specials on the Science channel) games and is the name of at least one (bad) movie, but some people can go their entire lives having never HEARD of these things, and THEY actually exist and knowledge gained from them could affect our technological development as a species.

So I think you'll forgive my ignorance of some little holiday movie if you please.

[A Black Falcon]

What surprises me is those people who have gone for decades without knowing what a black hole is or what e=mc^2 means. Now those people's education has failed them utterly.

There was a picture in the college paper recently...



Only one out of six random people asked recognized the three people in the front. Four of six got the guy in back.

... pretty depressing.

[Dark Jaguar]

*reads IMDB description*

Nope, never heard of it before. Sorry.



Agreed completely... :)

I mean, I remember watching that Arnold Schwarzenegger christmas movie (one or twice?), but I wouldn't exactly call it a classic...



I watch CNN, Cartoon Network, Boomerang, sometimes CNN Headline News or PBS, and most of the time that's about it. :) (and even that's usually just on in the backround while I use the computer)

... there are lots of things "everyone has heard" or whatever I know little or nothing about, and I don't see anything at all wrong with that...



You exaggerate, I'm sure... just because you've heard of it doesn't mean everyone has!

Though clearly in this case a lot of people have. I've also been totally ignorant of the existence of the band "Queen" up until a couple years ago. Not that into music so I never really hung around music stores or anything of the sort. It's just not this "very definition of Christmas" that it's being portrayed as. Maybe if I had never heard of Scrooge you'd have something there. At any rate, the hallmark of something being just THAT well known is how many parodies one sees of it. I can't remember a single parody of the plot you're describing, and in holiday "lineups" they sometimes do in shows I don't see anyone resembling Ralphie there. I see Frosty, Rudolph, Santa, the Grinch, Scrooge (always shown as being grumpy, no one ever bothers remembering him at the END of the movie, why don't they ever use "Scrooge" as slang for "insanely obsessed with giving") and various others but anyone like that smiling chap? Nope. Juuust not popular enough to be "definition of the holidays" material, at least not yet.

[Great Rumbler]

I'm actually not all that surprised about this, given that ABF and DJ are generally the two people on this board that have never once heard about things that are incredibly popular.

[Dark Jaguar]

Such as?

[A Black Falcon]

I'm actually not all that surprised about this, given that ABF and DJ are generally the two people on this board that have never once heard about things that are incredibly popular.

I was thinking that myself, actually... :)

It does seem to often be true. The part that isn't is when you imply that somehow that's a bad thing.

Though clearly in this case a lot of people have. I've also been totally ignorant of the existence of the band "Queen" up until a couple years ago. Not that into music so I never really hung around music stores or anything of the sort. It's just not this "very definition of Christmas" that it's being portrayed as. Maybe if I had never heard of Scrooge you'd have something there. At any rate, the hallmark of something being just THAT well known is how many parodies one sees of it. I can't remember a single parody of the plot you're describing, and in holiday "lineups" they sometimes do in shows I don't see anyone resembling Ralphie there. I see Frosty, Rudolph, Santa, the Grinch, Scrooge (always shown as being grumpy, no one ever bothers remembering him at the END of the movie, why don't they ever use "Scrooge" as slang for "insanely obsessed with giving") and various others but anyone like that smiling chap? Nope. Juuust not popular enough to be "definition of the holidays" material, at least not yet.

Bands... now THERE is something I don't know much about... :) Have heard of Queen though, though the only know of two of their songs. (the "We Are The Champions" one which I first heard in D2 (Mighty Ducks 2) and "We Will Rock You" which is played constantly at sporting events...

Anyway, my favorite Christmas movie... probably Mickey's Christmas Carol, the half hour Disney version of Dickens' The Christmas Carol. Because I have it on VHS (taped off of the TV like ten years ago along with two Disney winter cartoons that went before it and the Garfield Christmas Special (and the second half of the original Peanuts one)... for something so short, it does a surprisingly decent job... though that's mostly nostalgia speaking, I know. :)

[Great Rumbler]

You guys really need to watch 2001: A Space Odyssey and Blade Runner. Seriously. I know you haven't yet!

And while you're at it, read some Discworld novels by Terry Pratchett.

[Fittisize]

I've always thought that I have a pretty good grasp on popular culture and yet I've only seen A Christmas Story once. In Elementary school during class. I didn't even remember the movie until I read about it in this thread. In fact, I don't even know anything about the plot or characters (although I do remember one scene that invlolved a child getting a whuppin' because he was blamed for teaching a kid curse words...or something). Judging by some of the posts I've been reading, this appears to be a huge cultural phenomenon that has simply passed me by. No matter. Sometimes this just happens. I seem to be the only person left on Earth who hasn't seen Pirates of the Caribbean yet (either one) and I don't feel sheltered or inadequate in any way.

A quick scroll through my satellite listings and I see A Christmas Story playing on five different channels. How did I miss out on this again?

[A Black Falcon]

You guys really need to watch 2001: A Space Odyssey and Blade Runner. Seriously. I know you haven't yet!

And while you're at it, read some Discworld novels by Terry Pratchett.

I've read quite a few Terry Pratchett books (remember, I like fantasy books...) and have seen Blade Runner. Not 2001, though we own it (at home, not here).

Sorry, try again. :)

[Dark Jaguar]

I've always thought that I have a pretty good grasp on popular culture and yet I've only seen A Christmas Story once. In Elementary school during class. I didn't even remember the movie until I read about it in this thread. In fact, I don't even know anything about the plot or characters (although I do remember one scene that invlolved a child getting a whuppin' because he was blamed for teaching a kid curse words...or something). Judging by some of the posts I've been reading, this appears to be a huge cultural phenomenon that has simply passed me by. No matter. Sometimes this just happens. I seem to be the only person left on Earth who hasn't seen Pirates of the Caribbean yet (either one) and I don't feel sheltered or inadequate in any way.

A quick scroll through my satellite listings and I see A Christmas Story playing on five different channels. How did I miss out on this again?

Well you did have to actively search for it to find out it was there, and I have to ask if there would be any particular reason for you to be idly watching any of the channels it was on anyway. There's a reason for everything.

Anyway GR, you're right, never seen or read those, though I do know they exist at least. Discworld? Eh, not really interested. Most of it has been pretty much ruined by a friend of mine constantly quoting from various books in the series. I'm a little too busy reading a few new books I got like "The Blind Watchmaker".

Besides, I'm not about to have you say THOSE are things I just could NOT have avoided seeing. Most of my family hasn't seen or read, or even heard, of those either. I'm a nerd but not the sort of nerd who gets into all this stuff to maintain proper "nerd" status but rather the sort who gets into the things I enjoy and becomes a nerd through that. I may eventually see 2001, but eh, I get the impression I already know the whole story anyway without having seen it. Something about a super intelligent evil computer, and a guy shuts it down before it does something evil, and then they get to Saturn and there's a black thing that's "full of stars".

It may be good, but with that ending I have to wonder if they didn't decide to do a cheesy cop-out ending of "we basically turned on all our photoshop effects and call it deep and mysterious and meaningful when it's really just meaningless" sort of ending.

[Weltall]

I haven't seen Pirates, either.

But I have heard of it!

I'll bet I'm the only one, or one of maybe two people here, who have seen the movie "Jacob's Ladder", which has to be my favorite.

DJ: I am no longer required to forgive your ignorance, as you are now aware of the movie.

Now, take ninety minutes of your life and give it a view. You might end up liking it. There is no shortage of opportunity within the next two weeks.

[Dark Jaguar]

Now this may catch you off guard as a "that defies everything I would expect out of reality" statement, but I too have seen Jacob's Ladder, and I'll say it has nothing to do with the electricity demonstration.

Messed up, and when the deleted scenes are taken into account it really sets itself up for a subtitle like "Silent Hill 0". Odd that the ONE person thrown into a hellish nightmare world who actually happens to BE a fighter doesn't do jack to try and defeat these things, but then again there's also the difference of it being in a highly populated "normal world".

That does bring up an idea for Silent Hill 5. What if it, instead of taking place in an abandoned town, took place years ago when Silent Hill was still occupied and the hell first began? One man must slowly lose their mind surrounded by sane people who don't see a single bit of what he sees, or something else that appeals to that "I know the truth, they's out to gets us" fantasy in all of us. Behave normally in the real world but sometimes not be sure, but if you attack the wrong "thing" you get thrown in the looney bin as the town burns.