5th December 2006, 6:06 PM
I guess I wasn't paying attention, becuase I didn't notice that...
5th December 2006, 6:06 PM
I guess I wasn't paying attention, becuase I didn't notice that...
5th December 2006, 6:09 PM
Did you see the video of Link racing through the countryside as large birds gave chase, only for him to fire an arrow and them the arrow EXPLODED the bird to death? Yeah, considering there were other videos of arrows being shot sans explosion, it was pretty obvious what was going on.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
5th December 2006, 7:03 PM
I don't specifically remember that, but perhaps I saw it and thought the poof of smoke was to represent the enemy's death, a la Wind Waker.
In all honesty, bomb-arrows isn't an interesting enough "new" item for me to actually be upset about it being a potential spoiler. We've had fire arrows and ice arrows, not to mention bombchus, so it's not like it's a tremendous leap of innovation. Science H. Logic, I can't wait to get this game.
5th December 2006, 7:12 PM
(This post was last modified: 6th December 2006, 2:57 AM by Dark Jaguar.)
Also, we've had bomb arrows, so it's not an innovation at all. It's just cool. Now though, unlike in LA where the bomb arrows were more of a hidden secret than anything else, they actually are clearly identified and used to solve puzzles that require explosions in places you couldn't normally get them.
The only thing I wonder now is if there's a chance that this Zelda, or more likely a future Zelda, includes portals, like in portal. I imagine they could do some crazy stuff with that. ... Gnomacur?
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
6th December 2006, 7:00 AM
Portal would be cool but i'd rather see that used in Metroid.
Remember the Roger Rabbit ACME brand holes that you could throw on anything? I always thought that would be awesome in a video game.
6th December 2006, 11:40 AM
Quote:Remember the Roger Rabbit ACME brand holes that you could throw on anything? I always thought that would be awesome in a video game. Comes free with Half-Life 2: Episode 2
Sometimes you get the scorpion.
6th December 2006, 2:40 PM
I've seen portal, I was talking about the acme holes. It makes a bottomless pit on whatever object you put it on, but its also a container that holds that object no matter its size. And if you wrap it around something, you cause it to no longer exist.
6th December 2006, 4:44 PM
That'll be great for a new very well designed Looney Toons game, one that isn't just a platformer bug with Daffy Duck, but actually lets you be a frickin' cartoon.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
6th December 2006, 6:00 PM
As I've said before, Portal is like Prey in concept, but from Valve...
6th December 2006, 8:04 PM
A Black Falcon Wrote:As I've said before, Portal is like Prey in concept, but really awesome... Fixed.
Sometimes you get the scorpion.
6th December 2006, 8:20 PM
Hey ABF, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you not enjoy Valve's games? Well, to each their own.
At any rate, I like GR's assessment, except "and" instead of "but" would be better. Prey is pretty cool in it's way. It's also got the whole non orientable surface going for it. Twilight Princess does that too, but you are severely limited in those boots... Oh well, it leaves open possibilities for future Zelda games.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
6th December 2006, 8:25 PM
Quote:Hey ABF, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you not enjoy Valve's games? Well, to each their own. No no, Valve is great... I don't own Half-Life or Half-Life 2, but I've played demos of both and they seem quite good. I'm just saying that Portal is not exactly innovative -- 3DRealms did this years ago with the first version of Prey -- which, unlike the final version, I believe, DID have user-creatable portals... but everyone loves Valve and no one cares about 3DR (who I really loved when they were Apogee years back; I'm not as much of an FPS fan as shmups and platformers of course, but I still like 3DR for their history, even if Duke Nukem Forever's production isn't going well...), so Portal gets attention and not Prey so much...
6th December 2006, 8:33 PM
Prey doesn't have user-created portals in a heavily puzzle-oriented enviroment. Why should I care if some super-early version of some game had some that was slightly similar? It didn't get released in that format and from what I've heard Prey does not have user-created portals in a heavily puzzle-oriented enviroment. Can you create a portal in one side of room near a mounted gun and then place another portal under a huge crate, thereby making the crate fall through the portal and knock over the mounted gun? Probably not!
Sometimes you get the scorpion.
6th December 2006, 8:35 PM
Well it doesn't matter what it did if we aren't able to play it. What it did in the hypothetical realm of the beta testing doesn't matter to me. All I care about is the final product, and their final product is not doing what Portal is doing, so that's why I care more about it. They did what 3D didn't.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
6th December 2006, 8:37 PM
A first-version Prey video shows the guy setting up a few portals and then shooting himself through them, but it was more restricted in the version that actually got released I'm pretty sure...
Anyway, it's obvious whose work was first and whose was deritive. (beta testing? No, no... Prey was started back in the late '90s, worked on for a few years, and then cancelled after development problems, before being restarted by a new development team (not internal to 3DRealms, unlike the original version of Prey) with a liscenced engine (Quake 3) a few years ago. They are essentially two completely different games, one finished and one not, sharing a few basic things, mainly the idea of portals and a Native American hero (though his name and backstory changed).)
6th December 2006, 8:41 PM
And as I said, I don't care (though Portal is apparently more derived from a really old demonstration from a group at Digipen). All I care about is what the final product can do.
Here's the scene: Kid A: Prey is awesome, and in the really early builds you could actually make your own portals, they weren't preset! Kid B: That's amazing! Do it! Kid A: Can't, it was only in the testing phase! Kid B: Oh, well here's Portal. It can actually do that right now, while we play. Kid A: But it didn't come first. Kid B: But this is the one where you can play it! Kid A: But they HAD it! Kid B: Okay fine, you can sit there and enjoy your old pictures and videos and play your non-self portal making game and I'll be sitting here actually DOING everything that they took out of your game. Kid A: Okay...
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
6th December 2006, 8:43 PM
Read my complete post DJ... or read this, it's quite thorough.
http://www.apogeegames.com/prey/ Anyway, I think that Prey's engine (modified Doom 3) does let the users make portals, they just didn't put it into the game...
6th December 2006, 8:50 PM
ABF, LISTEN. TO. ME. I don't care who came up with it first. I care who put it in STORES first. 3D Realms did NOT release that game, as you have made VERY clear yourself! They released Prey, which had wall walking, but it did not allow for creating your own portals. Portal WILL allow you to do that.
That's the bottom line. I don't care who thought of it first, just who actually made the game that lets me do it myself first.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
6th December 2006, 8:51 PM
(This post was last modified: 6th December 2006, 9:04 PM by Great Rumbler.)
Quote:Anyway, it's obvious whose work was first and whose was deritive. Derivitive of a game that never actually came out [in the form that was "copied]. Regardless, it's pretty clear that Portal's use of the portal system is better than Prey in it's current form and probably better than Prey in it's early form as well.
Sometimes you get the scorpion.
6th December 2006, 9:01 PM
Just to make the point again ABF, I agree that Prey did it before Portal, but only on the drawing board (not literally, I know it made it into an unreleased version they were working on). But, if I never get to play it, why should I care? Portal is actually getting released, well one of these days, and so THAT is what I care about.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
6th December 2006, 9:01 PM
(This post was last modified: 7th December 2006, 11:26 AM by A Black Falcon.)
Here's a Prey mod that adds back in the user-creatable portals... there are others too. PC version only of course.
http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19335 early video of it: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...3800764468 And as for "that's just a mod", they're just unlocking/modifying something already in the game, not actually creating something completely new...
6th December 2006, 9:02 PM
And that's the first sensible thing you've added! Now we're getting somewhere! Okay, depending on how well this mod is done, I take it back.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
6th December 2006, 9:18 PM
That version of that mod (in the video) just opens randomly located portals near you, but I'm sore some other ones/versions just open one in front of you, like '90s Prey's portal mines (ie, the user-created portals in original Prey were created by you dropping mines, which opened portals)...
This is still true though...
6th December 2006, 9:33 PM
Haha, my little back and forth with kids but in funnier single panel comic form! That's great!
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
7th December 2006, 4:08 AM
I'm sure it would work in an actual cartoon oriented game, but I actually came up with the idea when I was playing Perfect Dark years ago. Instead of throwing a remote mine on someone, or a wall or surface, you could throw a hole. Like, on a team one member throws a hole on a wall and two team members jump in, then the hole is picked up and moved to another location (behind a pillar, out of sight) and a carefully orchestrated ambush in a relatively open area is possible from an object no larger than a mine. Or if you know there's several people waiting in a hole you could pick it up and throw it off a cliff or fold it to cause it to no longer exist killing everyone inside it. You could even create 4-D spheres within a room and exist simultaneously in multiple instances. Fun for the whole family.
7th December 2006, 6:05 AM
Are Prey and Portal REALLY all that similar?
Sometimes you get the scorpion.
7th December 2006, 10:20 AM
lazyfatbum Wrote:I'm sure it would work in an actual cartoon oriented game, but I actually came up with the idea when I was playing Perfect Dark years ago. Instead of throwing a remote mine on someone, or a wall or surface, you could throw a hole. Like, on a team one member throws a hole on a wall and two team members jump in, then the hole is picked up and moved to another location (behind a pillar, out of sight) and a carefully orchestrated ambush in a relatively open area is possible from an object no larger than a mine. Or if you know there's several people waiting in a hole you could pick it up and throw it off a cliff or fold it to cause it to no longer exist killing everyone inside it. You could even create 4-D spheres within a room and exist simultaneously in multiple instances. Fun for the whole family. You'd need a mechanic to prevent someone from, say, grabbing a flag and then hiding forever in a hole until people give up out of frustration.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
7th December 2006, 11:31 AM
Quote:Are Prey and Portal REALLY all that similar? Try watching the Portal trailer and then the Prey "portal wrench" video. If you come out with any response other than "Portal obviously was inspired by Prey"... Now, I know that Prey wasn't the first game ever to have portals; some old games do have them. And it'd have been much better if it'd had user-creatable portals as an official part of the game, certainly. But still, Prey took the portal idea way farther than any other title; the portal concept was the central idea of the game from its original inception in 1995. Sure, Prey didn't actually get released until this year, and other games have had some small, limited uses of portals in the meantime, but still, it clearly pushed forward the concept in a big way. There's no way that stuff like Portal (or Narbuncular Drop) wasn't inspired by it. Want more proof? Hmm, I wonder why Valve announced Portal so soon after Prey's release...
7th December 2006, 1:00 PM
ABF, that CAN be chocked up to coincidence. Magical thinking doesn't JUST apply to shamans, it also applies to conspiracy theories. Keep that in mind.
As I said, the Valve guys have already stated exactly where their inspiration game from, and it was from a group in Digipen's really old demo. Now, if you think there's more to that, that's all well and good, but provide some evidence. Circumstance and conjecture don't count. You say there's "no way" it couldn't have been inspired, but there is. If they didn't hear about it, that's one right there. I for one didn't know Prey even existed until I saw it in a store. Unless you have something more substantial than an announcement "soon after" (and when else were they going to announce it? They had obviously already been working on it for some time, did you expect 10 years? Coincidence easily explains it without needing further entities), you'll need more evidence. Just let it be.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
7th December 2006, 1:51 PM
Quote:As I said, the Valve guys have already stated exactly where their inspiration game from, and it was from a group in Digipen's really old demo. A game that, I believe, dates to 2004... Quote:ABF, that CAN be chocked up to coincidence. Magical thinking doesn't JUST apply to shamans, it also applies to conspiracy theories. Keep that in mind. When it's that close, and the idea is so similar? It's like how Nintendo would always release a press release just before or after a major game release on some other platform if they didn't have one of their own to release -- it distracts attention from your competitors (though it must be said that despite some past words now Prey is available on Steam, though this just dates to last month...)... Quote:You say there's "no way" it couldn't have been inspired, but there is. If they didn't hear about it, that's one right there. I for one didn't know Prey even existed until I saw it in a store. Unless you have something more substantial than an announcement "soon after" (and when else were they going to announce it? They had obviously already been working on it for some time, did you expect 10 years? Coincidence easily explains it without needing further entities), you'll need more evidence. Just let it be. Are you really a typical PC gamer, then? You'd never heard of Prey in the decade it was in various forms of production, at a major PC developer? Erm... Anyway, Valve is made up of PC gamers at least in part, and I'd be extremely, extremely surprised if any decent group of PC gamers had no knowledge of what 3DRealms had/was trying to do with Prey. Sorry, but it's just an impossible proposition. ... and anyway, rumors of Human Head making a Prey game go back several years... I remember reading a rumor about that like a year before the thing was actually announced. Also... Prey: released 7/11/2006. Portal: announced 7/18/2006. One week later. That's "near", to say the least, and well beyond the margin for any cooincidences. Look... if Valve wants to use portals, sure, they can. But don't try to pretend that they're being original with it...
7th December 2006, 2:42 PM
That is not "beyond the margin" for coincidence. Now I can say it's likely they did know about it, but to say there's "no way" is foolish and shows too much magical thinking, the sort that leads to moonlanding conspiracies and "the US bombed the towers from space".
All a coincidence means is two things happened at the same time. This wasn't even that. I mean when else WAS it going to happen? You need more than coincidence to establish something.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
7th December 2006, 3:13 PM
DJ/ If someone's hiding in a hole you just pick up the hole and throw it off a cliff, or fold it and make it nonexistant. The idea would be to jump out before the players know where you are or are within arms reach of the hole. In capture the flag it could get really interesting because someone could be holding the hole that's holding the player who is holding a hole that is holding another player who is holding the flag. But if the original player gets killed, that hole containing two players and the flag is compromised, so it would be alot of pressure, like an extreme game of hot potato. Of course with the nature of the holes the flag could be a player, a vehicle, an entire building or even a seperate level.
7th December 2006, 3:28 PM
Think about the ways this could be abused. Just toss the hole in some otherwise impossible to reach place.
The secret is to set it up so that if the hole is tossed in places "outside" the normal map, it is instantly destroyed.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
7th December 2006, 7:01 PM
All that other stuff aside, Portal looks really awesome.
Sometimes you get the scorpion.
7th December 2006, 7:58 PM
That it does.
Lazy, the idea of a pocket dimension is interesting. I'd say the portals are an extension of that. There are other possibilities though. In portal, you have to generate the other side of the portal yourself. Your idea of just sticking a "hole" on something allows for someone to basically make an opening in a wall and break into a place. That's interesting. That would require some special coding of course. Like, take the surface and extend in the dimension perpendicular to the hole until you hit the end of the clipping plane and then create a tunnel, just as an example.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
8th December 2006, 11:54 AM
That's the thing though, the holes aren't enter/exit 'real' holes. It's an object of infinite area inside that can adhere to any surface, even other players. If you threw it on glass and jumped in, you wouldn't come out the other side. You'd be inside the 'hole', which like I said could even be a seperate level.
8th December 2006, 12:51 PM
"Infinite area" isn't really doable. Limit the size to something else and you have something.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
8th December 2006, 4:23 PM
If it's a level then its not infinite area obviously, but otherwise its an infinite blackness, sorta like John Holmes.
If he were black. And infinite. |
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