Somebody needs to tell Texas that they can't secede...

[A Black Falcon]

http://blogs.chron.com/texaspolitics/arc..._texa.html

Georgia too. http://www.americablog.com/2009/04/georg...ecede.html

The right wing has gone completely insane in the past few months... it's like they lost an election and are suddenly having to deal with being out of power or something... they aren't taking it well.

(Oh, and on the other hand, Obama's defense of illegal spying, refusal to investigate or punish anyone for doing it, and support for continuing the programs is utterly despicable, just as it was under Bush. Getting rid of this kind of thing is part of why we elected him, not CONTINUING it! It doesn't matter if he's using it against left or right, it's wrong.)

But really... the secession, militant threats, statements that Americans should rise up and "take back" their country from the horrible people who stole it... it's bizarre really. You know, we have elections. You lost. Wishing it away doesn't change that -- see "Bush v. Gore, 2000/2001", just the other way around. Except with a lot more hate and anger, because the right wing in America always outdoes the left on that by far. (If America had a strong far left that might be different, but last I checked, the American Communist Party, if there is one, isn't doing so well. :))

[alien space marine]

I had the option to vote for Marxist Leninist party, I choose the other socialist weasels the NDP instead.

[Great Rumbler]

All this succession talk is stupid. If the GOP leadership wants to get something done, they should find some good ideas and explain to us WHY they should be put back in power.

[Sacred Jellybean]

Oh, and on the other hand, Obama's defense of illegal spying, refusal to investigate or punish anyone for doing it, and support for continuing the programs is utterly despicable, just as it was under Bush. Getting rid of this kind of thing is part of why we elected him, not CONTINUING it! It doesn't matter if he's using it against left or right, it's wrong.

Agreed 100%, I was incredibly disappointed to hear that.

Chuck Norris is also part of the fight for Texas to recede. I'm not sure we can win this battle. Does anyone really want Texas, anyway? Just let'em have it.

[Fittisize]

Haha, Texas is America's Quebec.

[Dark Jaguar]

Well in Texas' defense, they aren't French.

Though, I do think everyone in that state should have this as required reading:
http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf

It explains how people who are incompetant are rarely aware of it, because to be aware of their incompetance they need some familiarity of the topic at hand. For example, someone just learning English is rarely aware of their own grammar mistakes because if they had the knowledge of what that mistake was in order to recognize it, they would know better than to make it in the first place.

Basically, think Peggy Hill.

As an example, people are currently shouting "no taxation without representation". It would help if they understood they HAVE representation, and that representation decided to tax them. Sure THEIR representatives didn't do it, but that's kinda how congress is DESIGNED. Do they want a system where unanimous agreement across all congressmen must be done to get anything passed? You'd have a true "do nothing congress" if that happened. Granted, there is such a thing as "tyranny of the majority", but this isn't really a good example of that, and there's a system in place to DEAL with such situations, called the courts. That's where so called "activist judges" come in when they say this or that is unconstitutional. Unless someone can find grounds to conclude the recently passed spending bill is unconstitutional, they've got nothing.

Then of course there's the Ayn Rand followers who go on about how taxation is theft. I hardly need to address that do I? Heck if they love Ayn Rand so much just think of society as a large company which requires payment to render it's services to you. I mean the fact is a market, any market, is an infrastructure that must be created. Heck it had to be invented, it's not the natural state of things, and it does not encompass the totality of human interactions.

[lazyfatbum]

Colbert lol'd at it, I still understand perfectly what they mean though. Its the labels, the democrats and the republicans, the trickle down from government to the people when it should be reversed. its the whole show. It's in need of a reimagining. On the other hand, its people looking for who and what to blame and that blame falls squarely on us, not that anyone would ever have the balls to proclaim that and actually take measures in to their own hands, instead of booing the government we created in the first place.

It gets tiring though because there's no single method and no universally understood goal. But read up on India's government and you see a little of what we used to be and what we could become. Rome lasted around 1500 years before it became the whore of Babylon, but in that time it was gutted and reformed in order to evolve with the advancements of her people and the possibilities of the near future. I dont see us taking those steps honestly... there's too much risk, too much money and when the term global economy is used... they're not just talking about the middle east and Egypt or where their roads once lead.

[Dark Jaguar]

Specifics man!

[A Black Falcon]

Agreed 100%, I was incredibly disappointed to hear that.

Indeed.

As far as torture goes, Obama's trying to refuse to prosecute that too. Of course, that's illegal under international law, but Obama doesn't seem to care about that any more than Bush did, tragically...

Let's hope that the Justice Department ignores that and prosecutes anyway! Rumor has it that they're seriously considering it, and I really, REALLY hope that they follow through. This is a decision for them, not the president.

[alien space marine]

Indeed.

As far as torture goes, Obama's trying to refuse to prosecute that too. Of course, that's illegal under international law, but Obama doesn't seem to care about that any more than Bush did, tragically...

Let's hope that the Justice Department ignores that and prosecutes anyway! Rumor has it that they're seriously considering it, and I really, REALLY hope that they follow through. This is a decision for them, not the president.

I still like Obama but this is a let down.

You cant sell democracy to Iraqi's or Afghanistani's if you don't serve as a good remodel yourself.

If no one is made accountable, Then your sliding into kleptarchy.

[A Black Falcon]

I'm not surprised, the Democratic party and establishment never showed any interest in actually prosecuting people who did illegal things, just proclaiming "Things are different now!" and hoping it would go away, but I am sad... this is wrong. :(

(People who actually thought Obama was a serious liberal instead of just an average Democrat would probably be more disappointed than I am... but I never thought he was any farther left than, say, Hillary Clinton. Things like this help prove that.)

[Weltall]

1. When Bush won in 2000, the Democrats spent years acting like nutcases and spouting the same crap about 'taking back the stolen country'. Which isn't to endorse anyone saying it now, mind.

2. If southern states wish to secede again, why in god's name aren't we encouraging it?

[A Black Falcon]

On point 1, the "stolen" thing was more than anything else referring to the fact that Gore won the election, but it was taken away from him by the Supreme Court. In 2008, however, Obama won cleanly, no tricks.

You're right that the losers of an election often don't like the way things go (the fact that you still have that sig proves it...), and there was a bit of mostly-joking talk about the Northeast seceding and joining Canada or something after the 2000 and 2004 elections, but this is quite different in tone... they're actually serious, at least somewhat.

On point two, while the idea does have a certain appeal (get rid of the most conservative part of the country...), sorry, but you can't secede from the US. I think the Civil War settled that matter. :)

But also, the nation's better off whole. If those places were their own nation(s), the poorer people there wouldn't have a chance at all... at least with the federal government, we can at least try to do things to help people. They may not like it (even Democrats from the South are pretty bad on a lot of things...), but at least we can try... though it does make me think of that 'if people refuse help and elect anti-federal-gov't people, should we be too sorry when they then suffer for it? They're the ones that voted those people in... but anyway.

So yeah... secession thoughts among liberals after 2000 and 2004 were occasional entertaining thoughts, but never went beyond that. I hope things go similarly with conservatives... but with how much more extreme the average conservative in the US is than the average liberal, I don't think I'd bet on it.

I mean, the Republican Party is very far right. The Democratic Party? Barely left of center. The American left is very centrist compared to most other major democracies... though there are lots of other countries well to our right (or left, Communism shows that the far left is no better), of course.

[Geno]

Eh, both sides kinda fly off the pan handle anytime they lose an election. How many times was Bush called the antichrist? Now Obama is being called the antichrist. Although, being the more religious political leaning, the right tends to take this antichrist business a little more seriously to the point where they believe that Obama actually is the son of Satan. I kinda got the impression that the left as joking when they called Bush the antichrist and the War on Terror the beginning of the apocalypse.

But yeah, this whole "taking back the country from the people who stole it" bullshit is ridiculous considering Obama won an election fair and square. It was understandable back in 2000 when Gore actually did when the popular vote, and I don't remember it being said at all after the 2004 election since most people, whether they liked it or not, accepted that Bush won fair and square that time.

So why did the GOP lose the midterms in 2006 and the presidency in 2008? Simple: the Bush Administration was a complete and utter failure, according to 61% of historians and much of the population. If the Republicans want to win back the appeal of the population, they need to stop riding on whatever's left of Reagan's legacy and realize that Bush's foreign and domestic policies were all huge errors, something Bush would never admit even when everything was crumbling apart in front of his very eyes. It should come as no surprise to them that they lost control after all that Bush did. The people were unhappy with the GOP and so they elected Democrats in their place. The Democrats did not "steal" the nation. Things are just the complete inverse of what they were from 2003 to 2007, when the Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress. I'm sure they're pretty much depending on Obama (or some later Democrat) to fail so that they can get back in power since that's about the only way they will get back in power.

Seceding from the union? Retarded. It was retarded in 1860 and it's retarded now. Dividing the nation will just make both sides weak and vulnerable to our real enemies, like the terrorists. All they have to do is wait for another election, run a decent campaign that isn't based on Bush-ian philosophies, and win the appeal of the people back. That's what the Democrats did (riding mostly on Bush's failures, admittedly) and that's how they went from the underdogs to the ones in charge. It can happen again.

[Weltall]

Think of it, though: Eliminate all eleven former states of the Confederacy, and I'm willing to bet that the United States' aggregate life expectancy, literacy, education, and health care ratings jump like Mario in moon shoes.

I honestly don't think there's anything to the secessionist rednecks down there. There are always secessionist loonies after every election, and they are just that: Loonies. A few loud beerfucks in Mississippi might be just loud enough to attract attention, but there's no way we'd ever see anything remotely like the secessions of 1860-61. I wouldn't worry one bit.

It bears noting that my sig isn't some stupid "OBAMA = HITLER" thing. It's merely a reflection that both men were elected because the previous regime was vastly unpopular. People wanted change so badly that they elected the first person who made them believe it. It's not me inferring that Obama's politics are anything remotely fascist. I'm sure Hitler would take loud and angry offense with anyone who said so.

And I haven't changed it yet because I haven't gotten around to it.

[Geno]

If Alabama secedes again, then I'll no longer be a US citizen! :(

But at the same time... I'd be considered a genius within my own nation! Raise the rebel flag! The south is risin' again! YEEEEEEEEEHAW! *fires guns wildly in the air, killing a few birds in the process*

[Weltall]

I live in a former Confederate State too.

And if I needed any more excuse to leave, that would do fine.

[Geno]

Although I do intend to leave Alabama someday, my immediate plans involve staying here, particularly for the sake of remaining realistic. Once I have a high-paying job and am in a position where I can relocate, I probably will, though I'm not yet sure where.

Certainly, if Alabama were to secede again, it would be all the more motivation to get out of here faster.

[A Black Falcon]

48% of Republican Texans (and 35% of Texans overall) think that Texas would be better of as a separate country, evidently...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/4...-the-union

... that's kind of shocking. That high, really? Wow. That's pretty sad. :(