Shenmue...

[A Black Falcon]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/535/535389p1.html
http://pc.ign.com/articles/535/535405p1.html

[Dark Jaguar]

Hey, that was my idea! MMOAdventure that is!

[OB1]

Holy shit!


*reads article*

What the fuck?? Where is Shenmue 3??? I want to finish the damn story!!!

And windows??? Aaahhhh crap! Say goodbye to awesome Virtua Fighter-style combat system!

It's Shenmue, so I'm excited, but it's not Shenmue III, so I'm also really dissapointed. But as long as they make Shenmue III I don't care if this ends up sucking...

I'm so conflicted...

[A Black Falcon]

It's also being made by another company, in Korea, not Sega... and it's not DEFINITELY Windows, but being a Korean company that seems very likely. 'Conflicted' seems reasonable for fans of the series...

[OB1]

I saw some screens from what looked like a really nice CG movie, so maybe they're going to included Shenmue III in movie form with the game so they at least finish the story. Not my ideal wish, but better than not having any conclusion to the series. Or maybe they're making this game to fund the actual Shenmue III?

I don't know what to think right now. I'll just have to wait for more info.

[A Black Falcon]

And you attack me for not instantly loving a major change to a franchise I love? Now THAT's hypocritical... :)

[OB1]

...

[A Black Falcon]

"How could you possibly not want Fallout to go 3d? You are crazy!!!"

... sound familiar? Major changes to games make fanbases nervous and make some of those people dislike such games, OB1. You of all people should be able to understand that... the only thing blocking you is the way that you think (as in, that any opinion you take is the right one and all the others are stupid, so of course Fallout should be 3d).

[Private Hudson]

There's a little bit of a difference between changing the graphics style and completely changing the game and not continuing a storyline that fans are desperate to see a conclusion to..

[A Black Falcon]

It's more than just graphics, but you'd have to read the Fallout 3 thread to get that whole story. I don't want it taking over this thread too... I'll just say this. It's a totally different team making the next game in the series... a team that makes RPGs that are pretty different from the Fallout games. Causing uncertainty and nervousness among Fallout fans. Graphics is one thing, but it's also about story (Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind aren't too good on that aspect...), combat (so simple in TES, and complex in Fallout), tone (will a different team be able to do Fallout?), etc... Oh, and a healthy dose of skepticism. Fallout fans have gotten pretty ardent in their defence of the game over the years...

Ah, and here's part of why. Troika, run by the guy who made Fallout I, was also rumored to be trying to get Fallout. And now it comes out that they had started on a now frozen post-apocalyptic game...

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_cat.php?cat_id=6

http://www.nma-fallout.com/images/games/...t_05_b.jpg
http://www.nma-fallout.com/images/games/...t_06_b.jpg

It looks great! Hope they make it, despite Bethesda's Fallout project... after they finish their current game, that is (Vampire: Bloodlines). :)

[OB1]

Well said, Hudson. ABF is nuts.

[A Black Falcon]

Uh, OB1, he wasn't basing that on all the facts, since I hadn't explained it in this post... if he still says that after reading my previous post you could say something, but until then it just makes you look stupid. :)

[OB1]

What he said is absolutely true, and your post is just full of the usual nonsense you like to sputter. I said that Fallout in 3D would be good, nothing referring to the gameplay. That would be a simple perspective change, while Shenmue Online is a change of everything.

[A Black Falcon]

OB1, please click the two images I link to in that thread. That's a isometric-3d post-apocalyptic RPG design by the guy who made Fallout 1. I think it looks great, and that for such a game a topdown/isometric viewpoint unquestionably works better than a behind-the-character view. As they said in the NMA-Fallout forums, it looks even better (graphically) than BIS's Fallout 3 graphics did early this year... I wish Troika had gotten Fallout. :( Still, if they make it it could also be an awesome game. And possibly truer to Fallout than Bethesda is likely to make it...

[OB1]

The isometric viewpoint adds nothing to the game. You're friggin' weird.

[A Black Falcon]

Did you even click those two images I linked? It looks like a movable camera... but it's just a techdemo so the game clearly has a long way to go. I'm sure that in the final game they'd have a movable, but mainly overhead, camera. They are different ways of displaying the game. You prefer one of them. I think both are good in some circumstances but if you want to be more strategic I think that it's better to zoom it out. Yes, KOTOR worked. But I wouldn't want all RPGs being like that... for one, I greatly prefer mouse control in PC RPGs to gamepads. Third person works best by far with gamepad-ish or FPS-ish controls. I probably prefer, for an RPG, a mouse-click system like most isometric RPGs... I think it works better for the genre. Yes, you can do a decent game with a gamepad. Like Grim Fandango is a fantastic adventure game on gamepad... my favorite in the genre... but notwithstanding that, I'd never want all adventure games to copy it. Not even close. Most are by far best with a normal mouse interface.

Other than better controls, a isometric interface also gives you a better view of the area of combat. Makes for easier strategic gameplay. It also makes a slow paced combat engine much easier. KOTOR has a lot of streamlining so you don't have to do everything if you don't want to, but with a full partybased game with five or six characters... Okay, that doesn't apply to Fallout, since that's a one character game. But... Fallout on a gamepad? :barf: Mouse interfaces are so much better. And a third or first person viewpoint, as I said, just doesn't work for a turnbased game... Okay. You're moving your character FPS-style and then a monster comes into sight. You move closer to it. Suddenly, you stop moving. It's the monster's turn. It moves up to you... now the icon goes green or something and it's your turn. This has a high chance for being non-intuitive and frusterating. But in isometric, it's almost natural...

[OB1]

Why the hell are you talking about gamepads?

[A Black Falcon]

Gamepads or FPS controls, those are the two ways to control a third or first person game, as I said.

[Private Hudson]

Yah, sorry ABF, the gamepads lost me, too.

[A Black Falcon]

Okay... so a game is third person, with a perspective behind the character. Now, how do you control the player character(s) in such a game? Do you do like a top-down or isometric PC RPG probably would and have it be an all-mouse interface where you click on the screen to move or attack to a point? No, you probably do not. I don't think I've ever played a game that controlled like that... What you do is use a FPS-style control scheme (arrow keys or WSAD, mouse for looking and stuff...). If you do that you DRAMATICALLY change combat. It'd have to be much closer to Daggerfall/Morrowind combat and not be strategic combat like Fallout or Baldur's Gate. So, you go to third person. Now, here you can do strategic combat. KOTOR (is the one and only game that) proved that. You can do it. But as I said, for games like this I greatly prefer mouse control. And that only works with a higher-view perspective.

For instance, I doubt I'd play KOTOR with the mouse and keyboard... I'd bet the PC version would be much better with a gamepad. So would most any third-person RPG that was designed specifically for consoles and then was just ported over to PC, I think...

Does that explain that aspect of that post?

[OB1]

KOTOR works great with a kb&m.

[Dark Lord Neo]

I got Shemue II for free when with Munch's Oddesey. I didn't like it

[A Black Falcon]

KOTOR works great with a kb&m.

Did I deny that? No, I don't think so. I said you need direct control of the character. As in you press the button and they move. As opposed to clicking somewhere and having them go there.

[OB1]

You said that you'd rather play it with a gamepad.

And I despise the style of control where you don't directly control your character's movement and instead click where they need to go. Talk about removing yourself from the game experience.