IRAQ~!

[Darunia]

Opinions here:

Should we be there? Who will join us? What do u think the outcome will be?

My answers are YES, most of the UN (eventually) and it'll be only slightly longer than our Afghanistan campaign. Russia is showing signs of budging, and really--do you think they'll side with Iraq over us?

Military stats:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,75111,00.html

[EdenMaster]

We've already got one evil maniac pissed off at us (Osama), I'm not sure why Bush thinks we need another one.

[Darunia]

Im pretty sure that Iraq already hates us...its that fact that makes us obliged to go in there and kick their asses. Australia and Britain had already send forces to help us there, and I'm sure that once we formalize our campaign, others will join too. I expect that Russia will join; but probably not France or Germany. Turkey will probably add it's support; because once it comes down to it, whos side ARE they on, Iraq's or ours!?

[Fittisize]

Canada better not join. I know that.

[Weltall]

Originally posted by Fittisize
Canada better not join. I know that.

Why bother? What difference would Canada make?

[Fittisize]

Yeah. I guess your right. I woulnd't want to be a Canadian troop around American troops anyways...there would probably be more American "friendly fire" to the Canadians. God I hope that dumbass who did that in the middle east earlier this year goes to prison.

[A Black Falcon]

I think you can probably guess I'm quite definitely against a war in Iraq... for reasons I've said a dozen times here and don't really want to type all out yet again...

[Dark Lord Neo]

Originally posted by Weltall
Why bother? What difference would Canada make?

As big a difference as Australia

Originally posted by Fittisize
Yeah. I guess your right. I woulnd't want to be a Canadian troop around American troops anyways...there would probably be more American "friendly fire" to the Canadians. God I hope that dumbass who did that in the middle east earlier this year goes to prison.

I read an article the other day saying that the British refuse to be stationed right next to Americans because 100% of friendly fire deaths recived by British forces in the last 50 years in multi-national campaigns have been caused by Americans

The US probably won't get backing from the security council, since China, Russia and France who hold veto powers have said the weapons inspectors should get more time, and France doesn't seem to support the war in the first place, Germany is currently on the security council and they don't seem to support the war either, though they don't have veto powers, and other countrys with temporary posisions such as Canada haven't taken a stand yet.

Tony Blair was attacked by his own backbench today in the British house of commons during question period, so as you can see his party is not unified on this issue.

I doubt Canada will go, some senior Department of Defence officials have said that it is more likely that Canadian forces will be replacing some of the American troups in other peacekeeping forces such as Iraq and the former Yugoslavia. Also the liberal party was oposed to the first Gulf war when they were the oposition in the early 90's, and many of those same MP's are now cabinet ministers.

[Darunia]

Haha---just today, eight major European nations officially declared their support for us!! They are:

--Italy (only willing to let us use air bases for now. Not that we need any one surrendering and taking orders from Germany there anyway.)

--Spain

--Portugal

--Poland (do we need horse cavalry in the desert?)

--Denmark

--Bulgaria

--Hungary (no, I just ate!)

--Czech Republic

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/01/...index.html

[Dark Lord Neo]

and we all know those are major world powers

[Dark Jaguar]

Let's see some world powers here, like...Antarctica, or Mauritania.

[Dark Lord Neo]

Don't forget the real superpowers like Saskatchewan and Quebec

[EdenMaster]

This is aboot respect!

This is aboot dignity!

[Laser Link]

Sadam is dangerous and will probably attack the US when he gets a chance. But at the same time war is almost never the best answer. I'm sure we would win, but people will die. If we can avoid it, we should. I want to see Sadam walk out and go into asylum somewhere else. I don't know if it will happen, but there are a lot of people praying for this right now.

[Dark Jaguar]

Good point. There is the argument that "War has come upon us, whether we would risk it or not", but I don't think war is quite upon us. A small surgical strike to abduct Sadam and force him to work as a frycook at a McDonald's should be enough, then you don't even have to declare war :D.

[Darunia]

"and we all know those are major world powers"

More important to the world scene than Canada, let me tell you. I suppose you feel Canadian superiority to all of them.

CANADA: $7.8 billion 7,139,068 (2002 est.)
POLAND: $3.5 billion 8,120,098
SPAIN:$8.6 billion 8,403,430
$20.2 billion 12,157,753

[Darunia]

"and we all know those are major world powers"

More important to the world scene than Canada, let me tell you. I suppose you feel Canadian superiority to all of them. Maybe thats just because your conceited; at least these countries (half of which I'll admit do suck) have the balls to stand up for whats right and defend the world. You just sit there and play hockey and talk with bears. We'll be just find without you, Canada.

CANADA: $7.8 billion 7,139,068 (2002 est.)
POLAND: $3.5 billion 8,120,098
SPAIN: $8.6 billion 8,403,430
ITALY: $20.2 billion 12,157,753

[Darunia]

"and we all know those are major world powers"

More important to the world scene than Canada, let me tell you. I suppose you feel Canadian superiority to all of them. Maybe thats just because your conceited; at least these countries (half of which I'll admit do suck) have the balls to stand up for whats right and defend the world. You just sit there and play hockey and talk with bears. We'll be just find without you, Canada.


~Annual Military Budget~ ~Available manpower~
CANADA: $7.8 billion 7,139,068 (2002 est.)
IRAQ: $1.3 billion 6,135,847


POLAND: $3.5 billion 8,120,098
SPAIN: $8.6 billion 8,403,430
ITALY: $20.2 billion 12,157,753
USA: $276.7 billion 70,819,436
BRITAIN: $31.7 billion 14,632,418
GORON EMPIRE: $430.8 trillion 96

[geoboy]

War is inevitable whether the U.S. gets support or not. The only chance we have of not going to war is if Saddam steps down or is assassinated. The U.S. will "look weak" if they send all of the troops currently stationed and to be stationed back home. It's a stupid reason to fight, put the road to war has already been initiated and there's virtually no going back.

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, as soon as Bush started this march to his own private war (when given a better excuse by 9/11), I was sure that it would happen because he wouldn't let it not happen -- he wants it too badly to both make up for Bush Sr. letting Sadaam live and to repay the oilmen who pretty much control the White House... Terrorism? Maybe a minor reason, but its a pretty weak one. Sure, maybe another president would get tougher on Iraq... but lead the war march in a completely irresponsible fashion? No, I doubt it... most people actually CARE about what the rest of the world thinks. It has been proven many times over that Bush is not one of those people.

Once (or if) real powers like France, Germany, China, and Russia agree that war is needed I'll believe it a little more... and still wish that it could be avoided. War is never a good thing... especially when it is as unnecessary as this one...

And Sadaam will NEVER step down or go into exile, so the one potential out from this situation won't help.

[Great Rumbler]

We'll all know what's going to happen next on Wednesday when Collin Powel addresses the U.N.

[Darunia]

Well Saddam was "never going to go down" or be defeated in 1990...we soon proved him wrong, and without hardly losing anyone. He'll probably fight more stubbornly this time, but it's not like it'll be an all-out war. I expect total American and Coalition casualties to be less than a thousand, in total.

[Dark Lord Neo]

Darunia I never said Canada was a world power
YOu know what though, I am proud of my country, why? because we do not blindley follow the Americans into everything like some other countries.
Canada is also viewed internationally as a peacemaker, not a peacebreaker.
Canada is often asked to play major rolls in or lead peacekeeping forces, and whenever we have troops to contribute we usually send them.

[Darunia]

No, you just hate Americans.

[Dark Lord Neo]

How come as soon as someone doesn't agree with the American goverment on somthing they hate America and Americans?
Does that also mean that almost 100% of your population hates Americans? I'm sure you haven't agreed with every policy of all the American governments since you were born. So does that mean you hate Americans?

[Darunia]

No one is bashing u for liking Canada. No one is saying you can't disagree with American policy. But in the middle of a debate about America's insertion into Iraq, you suddenly arbitrarily protest against it. Then you go on to say that your policies are better, and act as though you're a major world power...of 20 million people. When you said others blindly follow us into things, it is insulting, as if implying we never think things through and we drag simple-minded countries into trouble.

[A Black Falcon]

Absolutely not. War should only be considered as an absolutely last resort... not as a way to solve the problem easily (and with the most benefit to them), like the US Government seems to want to...I wish more Americans realized how dumb this war was... its insane that we'd be going to war against Iraq. Have they not obeyed the UN? Well, yes. And harsher inspections are certainly called for. But war? No... unless you just want war for the sake of fighing someone (another reason Bush seems to want to fight), it should not be an option yet.

As nations like France, Germany, China, and Russia realize.

[Fittisize]

If George Bush Jr. declares war, defeats Iraq, and find no weapons of mass destruction, will he be tried as a war criminal? After all, he'd just be using the country for cheap oil...

[Dark Lord Neo]

Originally posted by Fittisize
If George Bush Jr. declares war, defeats Iraq, and find no weapons of mass destruction, will he be tried as a war criminal? After all, he'd just be using the country for cheap oil...

He wouldn't be extridited to the War Crimes Tribunal because the US doesn't recognize it so it has no juristiction of the US. But if he was indited and visited another country he could be arrested, but most countries don't arrest visiting heads of state.