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+--- Thread: The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! (/showthread.php?tid=962)
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 29th August 2003
Quote:But...mental images!!
Oh come on, video games means on a computer with user input... you can't have a computer game without a computer! A BOOK isn't a COMPUTER.
Quote:Video movie: Images are displayed of events.
Text movie: Words desribe events.
Graphical game: Images are displayed of what you are doing.
Text game: Words describe what you are doing.
Sorta, yeah... but I'd still certainly say that 'text movies' are far, far more different from 'video movies' than 'text games' are to 'graphical games'. That is, movies change a lot more than games in the move from visual to text.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 29th August 2003
Quote:I generally don't either, I admit, but still... you must agree that a 2d piece of art and a 3d one of the same image are different forms of that image? Text is just another kind of it...
I have no idea what you just wrote there. A 2D image is a 2D image, and a 3D image is a 3D image. They're unique unto themselves, and they are defined by these traits. Comparing a painting to a mental image of a pony running along a rainbow is completely inane.
Quote:Oh come on, video games means on a computer with user input... you can't have a computer game without a computer! A BOOK isn't a COMPUTER.
Right, but they're essentially identical to each other. A e-book is basically the same as a book. A real video game, however, cannot be accurately duplicated any other way. You can't play Mario Bros. in a notepad.
Quote:Sorta, yeah... but I'd still certainly say that 'text movies' are far, far more different from 'video movies' than 'text games' are to 'graphical games'. That is, movies change a lot more than games in the move from visual to text.
There's no such thing as a text movie. It's not a motion picture without moving pictures. Linear notes in DVDs for instance aren't considered to be seperate mini-movies or documentaries, they are simply linear notes! Video games aren't video games unless you are manipulating actual images on a screen.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Undertow - 29th August 2003
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
You can't play Mario Bros. in a notepad.
A-ha! I think that's a challenge!
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 29th August 2003
Believe me, I've tried it!
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 29th August 2003
I note you both skip the reply of mine that matters most (the longest one in my post several posts up). Like ususal.
Quote:I have no idea what you just wrote there. A 2D image is a 2D image, and a 3D image is a 3D image. They're unique unto themselves, and they are defined by these traits. Comparing a painting to a mental image of a pony running along a rainbow is completely inane.
A 2d image is a 2d image, a 3d image is a 3d image, and a image described in words is a image described in words. They are all different forms of images. THAT is what I am saying.
Quote:Right, but they're essentially identical to each other. A e-book is basically the same as a book. A real video game, however, cannot be accurately duplicated any other way. You can't play Mario Bros. in a notepad.
Yes, a e-book is a book, because in the transition the format does not change at all. If the format does change so would the classification...
Mario could not be done in a notepad, but a (not too good, clumsy) version could be done in text-only. :)
Quote:There's no such thing as a text movie. It's not a motion picture without moving pictures. Linear notes in DVDs for instance aren't considered to be seperate mini-movies or documentaries, they are simply linear notes! Video games aren't video games unless you are manipulating actual images on a screen.
First... text-movies are called "books". :)
"linear notes"? What are those?
And videogames are still videogames with no pictures. A MUD is a videogame! Unquestionably!
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 30th August 2003
Quote:I note you both skip the reply of mine that matters most (the longest one in my post several posts up). Like ususal.
I didn't reply to the ones that GR replied to becuase I thought he did a good job of uh... replying to them.
Quote:A 2d image is a 2d image, a 3d image is a 3d image, and a image described in words is a image described in words. They are all different forms of images. THAT is what I am saying.
*slaps self on forehead*
GR, would you take over for me please? I have to go search for ABF's brain. I think it fell out.
Quote:Yes, a e-book is a book, because in the transition the format does not change at all. If the format does change so would the classification...
Wait... what's your point?
Quote:Mario could not be done in a notepad, but a (not too good, clumsy) version could be done in text-only.
No it couldn't. Then it would not be a video game!
Quote:First... text-movies are called "books".
"linear notes"? What are those?
And videogames are still videogames with no pictures. A MUD is a videogame! Unquestionably!
Linear notes are the essay and notes that you see in certain DVDs.
Video games cannot be video games without actual images, just like movies cannot be movies without moving pictures! End of debate! You've shown how insane you are, so let's move on to something else!
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 30th August 2003
This is just so stupid.
As I've said all along... I see no reason to say anything other than what I have been saying all along: that the experience of using the product, not the form the product is in, is what matters. So if two games play the same (or very similar), they are categorized the same (or very similar). It is just insane to say that two games that play the same aren't in the same category!
Quote:No it couldn't. Then it would not be a video game!
Yes it would!
Quote:Linear notes are the essay and notes that you see in certain DVDs.
You mean like the extra documentaries or something?
Quote:Video games cannot be video games without actual images, just like movies cannot be movies without moving pictures! End of debate! You've shown how insane you are, so let's move on to something else!
What about something displayed on a movie screen, with a movie projector, from a movie reel, in a theater, but it had just text on the screen, not pictures?
I'd say its still a movie... though its a bit more iffy than the games are. After all, reading a screen in a movie is quite different from just watching, while in games the experience is far more similar... in the genres in question, the graphical game experience is very similar to the non-graphical one. Sure, there are now pictures, but you still read a lot and in these genres (adventure, RPG) deal with reading lots of text...
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Great Rumbler - 30th August 2003
I'll see what I can do here, but I'm not making any promises!!
Quote:A 2d image is a 2d image, a 3d image is a 3d image, and a image described in words is a image described in words. They are all different forms of images. THAT is what I am saying.
Except that the 2D and 3D images are far different than a desription. The images show you exactly what the creator wants you to see, the description leaves it up to each individual to decide what is being described.
Quote:You mean like the extra documentaries or something?
What OB1 is talking about are pages of notes one the DVD describing the action that is in the movie. Sort of like the script.
Quote:What about something displayed on a movie screen, with a movie projector, from a movie reel, in a theater, but it had just text on the screen, not pictures?
Technically, I think, you could say that it is a movie, but it's just too different to put them into one category.
All cars are automobiles, but not all automobiles are cars.
Think about it. Aren't trucks nearly the same as cars? So why do we give them different names? Cars and trucks both have four wheels, an engine, seats, a stearing wheel, pedals, doors, windows, ect.
All video games are computer games, but not all computer games are video games.
See?
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 30th August 2003
Truck vs Car is an arbitrary definition invented for legal purposes... nothing more. Note how Minivans are "trucks"...
Oh yeah, and this arguement isn't going anywhere... same as last time... and plus its probably one of our dumbest ever. :)
This is different -- we're talking about differences that actually have something tangible seperating them! Or at least you are...
Quote:What OB1 is talking about are pages of notes one the DVD describing the action that is in the movie. Sort of like the script.
Never seen that before...
Quote:Except that the 2D and 3D images are far different than a desription. The images show you exactly what the creator wants you to see, the description leaves it up to each individual to decide what is being described.
But just like a picture the amount left to your imagination depends on the depth of the text explanation, so I don't see why that rules them out...
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Great Rumbler - 30th August 2003
Quote:Truck vs Car is an arbitrary definition invented for legal purposes... nothing more. Note how Minivans are "trucks"...
Why don't we see what the dictionary says.
truck
n.
Any of various heavy motor vehicles designed for carrying or pulling loads.
car
n.
a road vehicle with an engine, four wheels, and seats for a small number of people
min·i·van
n.
A small passenger van having a boxlike shape, side and rear windows, and typically removable rear seats for cargo.
van
n.
An enclosed boxlike motor vehicle having rear or side doors and side panels especially for transporting people.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 30th August 2003
And that proves what, exactly?
Sure, there are all kinds of different vehicles and each of them is different... but I'd say minivans are as much cars as station wagons. Same for SUVs... size makes them 'trucks' but that isn't a definition based on anything other than what people agree on.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Great Rumbler - 30th August 2003
[quote]but that isn't a definition based on anything other than what people agree on.[quote]
That all definitions are!! A book is a collection of papers bound together becaue that's what people agreed to! Ther isn't some pre-existing definitino saying that's what book is!
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - EdenMaster - 30th August 2003
Aaaand the number 1 most annoying thing in the world is...
PEOPLE WHO RUIN COUNTDOWNS!
Thanks for playing.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 30th August 2003
Quote:That all definitions are!! A book is a collection of papers bound together becaue that's what people agreed to! Ther isn't some pre-existing definitino saying that's what book is!
I know... :)
How about... trucks and cars are nearly identical, so the only real difference is for categorical purposes, not for actual use/design/function purposes.
Same as text and graphical games!
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Great Rumbler - 30th August 2003
I already said that one.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 30th August 2003
901 - daytime TV
900 - games that are too easy
899 - games that are hard in frusteratingly annoying ways
898 - OB1
897 - the New York Yankees (they are EVIL INCARNATE!! Darn them for beating Pedro!)
896 - infomercials
895 - earbud headphones with a missing cover for one of the ears
894 - people complaining about threads that go off topic
893 - EA (for ruining so many good developers!)
892 - Microsoft
891 - people who actually think MS Word is a decent writing program (well less annoying than strange... I find word to be so incredibly annoying... I'd think that if I had to use it even remotely often It'd be giving me headaches. Just the occasional times I do have to use it its a MAJOR pain...)
890 - SUVs
889 - Wal-Mart
888 - McDonald's
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Great Rumbler - 30th August 2003
Yay! The thread is finally getting back on track! Now let's keep it tha way!
887 - Spending a lot of money on something and then finding it someplace else for a lot less.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 30th August 2003
Quote:I already said that one.
What do you mean, that I'm right?
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 30th August 2003
Quote:This is just so stupid.
As I've said all along... I see no reason to say anything other than what I have been saying all along: that the experience of using the product, not the form the product is in, is what matters. So if two games play the same (or very similar), they are categorized the same (or very similar). It is just insane to say that two games that play the same aren't in the same category!
So then because the experience of a choose-your-own-adventure book is similar to a simple text-based video game it means that the CYOA books are also games?? Wow, great logic!
Quote:You mean like the extra documentaries or something?
Not really. Just notes in the special features menu.
Quote:What about something displayed on a movie screen, with a movie projector, from a movie reel, in a theater, but it had just text on the screen, not pictures?
I'd say its still a movie... though its a bit more iffy than the games are. After all, reading a screen in a movie is quite different from just watching, while in games the experience is far more similar... in the genres in question, the graphical game experience is very similar to the non-graphical one. Sure, there are now pictures, but you still read a lot and in these genres (adventure, RPG) deal with reading lots of text...
If it was all text then there would be no need for it to run at 24 frames per second like film does. It could be a slide reel, which no movie could be.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 30th August 2003
Quote:What OB1 is talking about are pages of notes one the DVD describing the action that is in the movie. Sort of like the script.
Actually I was referring to the written essays and such that are on some DVDs. :)
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 30th August 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
I know... :)
How about... trucks and cars are nearly identical, so the only real difference is for categorical purposes, not for actual use/design/function purposes.
Same as text and graphical games!
Well at the end of the day none of this matters at all, but you wanted to get into strict classification so I obliged.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 30th August 2003
886- ABF, for being so annoyingly stubborn and stupid. :p
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Great Rumbler - 30th August 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
What do you mean, that I'm right?
What I said was in reply to EdenMaster.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 30th August 2003
Quote:So then because the experience of a choose-your-own-adventure book is similar to a simple text-based video game it means that the CYOA books are also games?? Wow, great logic!
They're certainly a form of game, but not a video or computer game since they are in books... :)
Quote:If it was all text then there would be no need for it to run at 24 frames per second like film does. It could be a slide reel, which no movie could be.
I see you dodged the question there...
Quote:Well at the end of the day none of this matters at all, but you wanted to get into strict classification so I obliged.
Huh? You are the one insisting that games that play nearly identically are in totally different categories! I'm saying that they are the same! I'd say YOU are the one advocating stricter classification...
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - -_____- - 31st August 2003
885- Kids who drive with their windows down blasting rap.
I counteract this by driving with my windows down blasting rock. :D Not everyone may like it, but hey, at least it drowns out the rap, right?
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 31st August 2003
Oh yes, because the people blasting Rock are SOOO much better... :D
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Darunia - 31st August 2003
Yes, they are better, ABF.
884 ~ Loud, obnoxious assholes in the movie theater.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 31st August 2003
Quote:They're certainly a form of game, but not a video or computer game since they are in books...
But you just threw the definition of video game out the window for the purposes of your argument! You just said that "if it kinda plays like a game then it is one" and completely disregarded the fact that it cannot be a game without actual images. So by your logic you have to call CYOA books games as well.
Quote:I see you dodged the question there...
What question?
Quote:Huh? You are the one insisting that games that play nearly identically are in totally different categories! I'm saying that they are the same! I'd say YOU are the one advocating stricter classification...
You started this so I went along. I'm using real definitions to back up my claims while you are not. Like you said, an e-book is essentially the same as a regular book but there are some key differences that put them into different categories. It is the exact same way with video games vs. text-based games.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 31st August 2003
Quote:But you just threw the definition of video game out the window for the purposes of your argument! You just said that "if it kinda plays like a game then it is one" and completely disregarded the fact that it cannot be a game without actual images. So by your logic you have to call CYOA books games as well.
Well that's why I said that images include text, I guess...
Quote:What question?
Whether that would be a movie!
Quote:You started this so I went along. I'm using real definitions to back up my claims while you are not. Like you said, an e-book is essentially the same as a regular book but there are some key differences that put them into different categories. It is the exact same way with video games vs. text-based games.
I started it this time, but when we had the original debate it was most certainly you who started it.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 31st August 2003
Quote:Well that's why I said that images include text, I guess...
Now you're not even sure what you're talking about...
Quote:Whether that would be a movie!
I addressed that. It wouldn't be a movie.
Quote:I started it this time, but when we had the original debate it was most certainly you who started it.
Who cares who started what.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 31st August 2003
Quote:Now you're not even sure what you're talking about...
That's because it wasn't until that thing I replied to there that I understood that by all those idiotic examples of things that weren't computer games you meant
Quote:But you just threw the definition of video game out the window for the purposes of your argument! You just said that "if it kinda plays like a game then it is one" and completely disregarded the fact that it cannot be a game without actual images. So by your logic you have to call CYOA books games as well.
... Why didn't you just come out and say that days ago? It would have made me understand why you kept saying those stupid examples...
Quote:I addressed that. It wouldn't be a movie.
I'm not sure. It might not be, but its on the format that movies go on, so I don't know...
Quote:Who cares who started what.
You, evidently...
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Darunia - 31st August 2003
883 ~ One-ply TP.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 31st August 2003
Quote:That's because it wasn't until that thing I replied to there that I understood that by all those idiotic examples of things that weren't computer games you meant
Riiight.
Quote:... Why didn't you just come out and say that days ago? It would have made me understand why you kept saying those stupid examples...
I did say that! I've been saying things just like that for days now!
Quote:I'm not sure. It might not be, but its on the format that movies go on, so I don't know...
A movie has to be something with moving pictures.
Quote:You, evidently...
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 31st August 2003
Quote:I did say that! I've been saying things just like that for days now!
Not really. You were just saying stuff like 'Choose Your Own Adventure is a video game'... not explaining it well enough that I could figure out why you kept saying those were videogames...
You had said the parts of that arguement (that i quoted there) seperately, but not connected them together, you see...
Quote:A movie has to be something with moving pictures.
Then what is it if it just has text, a book?
Quote:
You started this line of the arguement, so it must be you...
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Darunia - 1st September 2003
882 ~ Unions.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 1st September 2003
Quote:Not really. You were just saying stuff like 'Choose Your Own Adventure is a video game'... not explaining it well enough that I could figure out why you kept saying those were videogames...
You had said the parts of that arguement (that i quoted there) seperately, but not connected them together, you see...
I explained myself VERY clearly, clear enough for GR to understand me. You just refused to listen to anyone but your own self.
Quote:Then what is it if it just has text, a book?
It wouldn't be book, either. It would simply be words projected to a screen, and as far as I know they haven't classified something like that yet.
Quote:You started this line of the arguement, so it must be you...
I started it? I was playing along with this thread before you brought it up!
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 1st September 2003
Quote:I explained myself VERY clearly, clear enough for GR to understand me. You just refused to listen to anyone but your own self.
I could sort of understand you... you're just wrong! :)
Quote:It wouldn't be book, either. It would simply be words projected to a screen, and as far as I know they haven't classified something like that yet.
Lacking a better term, I might call them a form of movie...
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - -_____- - 1st September 2003
881- composition class
880- assignments that have no stated length requirements. how should i know if its supposed to be 1 page or 3? hrmph. if i know how to write, why make me "learn" it by writing more? waste of time that COULD be spent learning my intended major, computer science. bah. writing sucks.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Darunia - 1st September 2003
879 ~ Waiting for games to come out.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 1st September 2003
878 - Having games be rushed and come out unfinished and, as a result, bad.
877 - Having games delayed forever and then come out out of date and, as a result, bad.
:D
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 1st September 2003
Quote:I could sort of understand you... you're just wrong!
Oh so now you're going back to saying that I'm wrong?
Quote:Lacking a better term, I might call them a form of movie...
And you'd be wrong.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 2nd September 2003
Quote:Oh so now you're going back to saying that I'm wrong?
The idea that just because it doesn't have graphics its in a totally different category just makes absolutely no sense... and as for Choose Your Own Adventure, its vaguely like it, but not really. All you do there is choose options in a branching story... that's not really a game. Certainly not an adventure game.
And I always said that they need to be on a computer! I just don't agree at all with the idea that whether they have pictures or not is even remotely relevant to this classification...
Quote:And you'd be wrong.
Well there isn't a better term for them, so I think not.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 2nd September 2003
Quote:The idea that just because it doesn't have graphics its in a totally different category just makes absolutely no sense... and as for Choose Your Own Adventure, its vaguely like it, but not really. All you do there is choose options in a branching story... that's not really a game. Certainly not an adventure game.
And I always said that they need to be on a computer! I just don't agree at all with the idea that whether they have pictures or not is even remotely relevant to this classification...
It doesn't matter what you believe because there are some little things called "facts" that contradict your claims.
Answer me this: If there was an e-book version of CYOA, which would be just like the books (meaning no pictures at all), would you consider that to be a VIDEO GAME?
Quote:Well there isn't a better term for them, so I think not.
Like I said, you think wrong. You seem to like to completely disregard definitions of the terms that you are arguing about. A movie is "A sequence of photographs projected onto a screen with sufficient rapidity as to create the illusion of motion and continuity.", not "A bunch of text that does not create the illusion of motion and continuity". The definitions are right in front of you but you choose to ignore them.
Honestly, ABF, these "debates" have gotten to the point of pure stupidity on your part. It's like you're pulling your arguments out of some sort of bizarro universe where logic and reason have no meaning.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Moiraine - 2nd September 2003
976 ~ My Government Teacher!!!
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Great Rumbler - 2nd September 2003
875 - My AP History teacher.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 2nd September 2003
Quote:It doesn't matter what you believe because there are some little things called "facts" that contradict your claims.
Answer me this: If there was an e-book version of CYOA, which would be just like the books (meaning no pictures at all), would you consider that to be a VIDEO GAME?
Ooh, tough question... I'm not sure. It would be electronic now, but unless they made it interactive (ie you read the page then choose from options as opposed to having to flip through pages) I'd probably say no... though I'm not sure.
Quote:Like I said, you think wrong. You seem to like to completely disregard definitions of the terms that you are arguing about. A movie is "A sequence of photographs projected onto a screen with sufficient rapidity as to create the illusion of motion and continuity.", not "A bunch of text that does not create the illusion of motion and continuity". The definitions are right in front of you but you choose to ignore them.
Honestly, ABF, these "debates" have gotten to the point of pure stupidity on your part. It's like you're pulling your arguments out of some sort of bizarro universe where logic and reason have no meaning.
Well... there's your answer...
Photographs of text! :D
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - Darunia - 2nd September 2003
874 ~ Otto von Bismarck.
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 2nd September 2003
Quote:Ooh, tough question... I'm not sure. It would be electronic now, but unless they made it interactive (ie you read the page then choose from options as opposed to having to flip through pages) I'd probably say no... though I'm not sure.
Well there you have it. End. Of. Debate.
Quote:Well... there's your answer...
Photographs of text!
You're missing the most important part of that definition, which is "...create the illusion of motion and continuity".
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - A Black Falcon - 2nd September 2003
Quote:You're missing the most important part of that definition, which is "...create the illusion of motion and continuity".
I know, I know... which is why I said that that question is a lot more iffy than the videogames one...
Quote:Well there you have it. End. Of. Debate.
How so?
The One Thousand Most Annoying Things Ever!! - OB1 - 2nd September 2003
Quote:I know, I know... which is why I said that that question is a lot more iffy than the videogames one...
Yes, the video games one is much more obvious, as in that I'm right.
Quote:How so?
You admitted that the CYOA game wouldn't really be a game.