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+--- Thread: Stupid black hat hackers! (/showthread.php?tid=945)
Stupid black hat hackers! - Dark Jaguar - 11th August 2003
Since I know some hackers only tinker with stuff they own and stuff they were given specific permission to mess with, I'll play the whole name game and call the ones who are total jerks "black hats".
Penny Arcade just had a rant about the idiocy of these people thinking their actions are justified just because of the lack of security. It's like if someone broke into my house and stole my stuff and said "you should have had a better defense system". It's PURE IDIOCY. Of course, their analogy was more... colorful...
Discuss
Stupid black hat hackers! - geoboy - 11th August 2003
Here's my philosophy on the situation: One has no right to complain/sue/whatever about a hacker (blackhat or whitehat) if one does not take <i>simple</i> measures to defend oneself. It's not that hard to update firmware and keep moderately safe. Just keep the system patched and use good user names and passwords, and now you'll keep out 90% of hackers (who are just script kiddies anyway who use tools developed by the real hackers). When you don't take these measures, what happens, happens. It's a game of chance. Do you lock the doors to your house when you're gone? Why? It's because you know that someone at sometime just might rattle the doorknob to see if it's unlocked, and if it is, they'll help themselves to your stereo. It's just a fact of life. Not securing a system is exactly the same. The odds aren't high that someone will break in, but they're there. And when a hacker finds an unlocked door, chances are they'll walk in.
Hackers are just a part of the balanced system. They will always be there. They're like a fact of nature. And if the door is locked, there are still hackers that will break through, though these kind of people are fewer in numbers than the script kiddies who just look for holes (unlocked doors).
My point is, leave your system vulnerable: shame on you. Secure it and still have someone break in: THIS MEANS WAR! :evil:
Stupid black hat hackers! - Dark Jaguar - 11th August 2003
Your point is pure idiocy.
Sorry, but even if I don't lock the door, that does NOT mean the thief was right to take it to "teach me a lesson". Such a manner of thinking is pure and utter bull plop, to quote Homer Simpson.
Now, normally I wouldn't outright degrade another's opinion, but in this case, I'll make an exception. Your opinion is the absolute most stupid and idiotic thing ever! There's NEVER an excuse to hack into someone's system, defense or no! I honestly don't care HOW easy it was.
Should I blame God if someone steals my kidneys just because my skin doesn't defend against knives?
Never mind, it's obvious such examples escape you. Your very example is the EXACT one I'd use, but you seem to think the example of someone stealing somehow prooves YOUR point! What the... sorry, I just can't bear the idiocy here...
Stupid black hat hackers! - Great Rumbler - 11th August 2003
My philosophy: You hack my computer, I break your face.
That philosophy also covers breaking into my house.
Stupid black hat hackers! - Dark Jaguar - 11th August 2003
Indeed. Oh, and I also will find someone totally responsible if they shoot me and I die, even if they use some stupid argument like "In today's world, people shoot each other. It's your fault if you get shot and you didn't defend yourself with something as simple as a bullet resistant vest.". I swear, if someone kills me I am SO going to kick them square in the jaw!
Stupid black hat hackers! - OB1 - 11th August 2003
No you won't.
Stupid black hat hackers! - Dark Jaguar - 11th August 2003
What's gonna stop me?
Stupid black hat hackers! - OB1 - 11th August 2003
You hate fighting, remember?
Stupid black hat hackers! - geoboy - 11th August 2003
God damnit, if you leave your door UNLOCKED, then YOU'RE the fucking idiot. Not the unwelcome person who turns the knob and opens it. If you DO lock your doors, however, then you're taking a simple measure to secure your house and the person will obviously have to do something forceful to open it.
Of course people who deface websites are jerks. But most of these jerks are passive and will not try to break through a locked door unless there's something inside that they really want. Even then, most are just script kiddies who can't figure out how to get in and just give up.
I'm not saying the action of blackhat hackers is justified. But I reiterate: what happens, happens. (and for reasons, whatever they may be). Most likely there is a motive, and most likely measures could have been taken to prevent these actions.
Stupid black hat hackers! - Dark Jaguar - 11th August 2003
So because it's easy that means I deserved for someone else who is totally responsible for their own actions to walk in and take my stuff? It's STILL illegal. Whether or not the person could have prevented it is irrelevent to the fact they did something wrong. Besides that, where is the line drawn? What about when you leave the door unlocked because someone is coming over? You see, your whole "they deserved it" thing is just stupid. All I'm asking is for you to totally change your mind on the issue! It's a LOT, but DO IT! DO IT NOW!
Stupid black hat hackers! - Dark Jaguar - 11th August 2003
Look, lemme sum this up really easy. You are blaming the victim when you say "they should have done such and such to prevent such and such". Evil has no right to exist at all, okay? Thus, we shouldn't be forced to accomadate for it. Just because "it happens" doesn't mean I should expect it, or tolerate it, or anything of the sort.
Once again, don't blame the victim at all! You remind me of the disturbed people who talk about how stupid someone was to get killed by some serial killer. Since evil is by default unexcused, any and all mistakes regarding self defense are thus totally excusable. You see, there is ONE bias that is always perfectly justified. I am TOTALLY biased FOR good AGAINST evil, and I'm pretty sure everyone here is as well. Thus, I will ALWAYS take the side of the victim of some evil crime, NEVER the committer of the crime. I mean, how is it a defense to say "well the guy practically invited him in, what with the way it was so easy and all".
What you are basically saying is, in the case of the unlocked door, is that it's MY fault I can't use my TV or computer any more. Now come on, use a little sense here. How can you possibly take such a view as this?
Stupid black hat hackers! - Private Hudson - 12th August 2003
It's certainly not your fault that your TV has been stolen. That falls purely on the head of the "evil", as you so lovingly put it.
But you're still an idiot for not locking your door. You know full well that people very well might try and break into your house, thus it would be smart to protect yourself in some way from being broken into.
Simple, no?
Stupid black hat hackers! - Dark Jaguar - 12th August 2003
But of course, but that's hardly the debate. He's saying the victim of this imaginary crime, or any real one just like it, is to blame. He's saying that someone DESERVES for it to happen to them.
And of COURSE theft is "evil". Why should I use any loving term to describe it? There's no other way to put it, except "bad" or "wrong". Or, bedong, yes, stealing is bedong. Sorry, understanding stops when there's no excuse to do something. One's right to swing their arm stops where my face begins.
From the first post, geo is attempting to say a victim can only blame themselves just because of a laps in security. While one can go on about how one may indeed be stupid, or the security mechanism flawed, or any number of other ways to place the blame, the fact is that the theft would not have occured if the theft hadn't occured! It's a VERY simple thing to understand. Had the person not stolen it, it would not have been stolen. Had a hacker not corrupted a system, the system would not be corrupted. It's EXACTLY as simple as that. It is no more complicated than that at all. Thus, the blame lies SOLELY with the one who did it in the first place.
Stupid black hat hackers! - Private Hudson - 12th August 2003
See now, you didn't have to go and start quoting Kung Pow.
Stupid black hat hackers! - Great Rumbler - 12th August 2003
Quote:Originally posted by geoboy
God damnit, if you leave your door UNLOCKED, then YOU'RE the fucking idiot. Not the unwelcome person who turns the knob and opens it. If you DO lock your doors, however, then you're taking a simple measure to secure your house and the person will obviously have to do something forceful to open it.
Of course people who deface websites are jerks. But most of these jerks are passive and will not try to break through a locked door unless there's something inside that they really want. Even then, most are just script kiddies who can't figure out how to get in and just give up.
I'm not saying the action of blackhat hackers is justified. But I reiterate: what happens, happens. (and for reasons, whatever they may be). Most likely there is a motive, and most likely measures could have been taken to prevent these actions.
By your logic I should install security cameras, trip wires, and automated machine gun turets around my house because a determined theaf might break or pick the locks that I have on my doors.
Stupid black hat hackers! - Laser Link - 12th August 2003
Thank you for using black hat, not just hacker. It makes me happy.
Stupid black hat hackers! - Undertow - 14th August 2003
Quote:One has no right to complain/sue/whatever about a hacker (blackhat or whitehat) if one does not take simple measures to defend oneself.
The laws governing such things dissagree.
And as far as I'm concerned these 'black hats' don't have the right to destroy another person's personal property.
Quote:God damnit, if you leave your door UNLOCKED, then YOU'RE the fucking idiot.
As far as I'm concerned I don't think I should live my life in constant fear of someone breaking in. If I don't lock my door while I'm in bed/ gone away, yes, it's half my fault if someone just walks in and steals something. But do I have the right to call the cops when something *is* stolen/ destroyed reguardless if I locked my house up? Yes. The same thing applies with malicious hackers.
Stupid black hat hackers! - Dark Jaguar - 14th August 2003
I wouldn't say it's your fault it was STOLEN. It's your fault the security was down, and that's it.
As has been said, where does this standard end? Is "basic" going to expand and expand to the point where it's one's own fault if they don't live in a titanium tomb with rocket turrets and a moat filled with magical serpents?
Stupid black hat hackers! - Undertow - 14th August 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
I wouldn't say it's your fault it was STOLEN.
I didn't mean it that way.
Stupid black hat hackers! - Dark Jaguar - 14th August 2003
Yeah, I see that's what you meant, though others might have taken it the wrong way.
Stupid black hat hackers! - alien space marine - 14th August 2003
if you Rob someones house, its your fault and your responsible not your victim.Its like saying its the people on board the planes that hit the WTC fault they didnt sneek on board guns and knives to stop the hijackers.
Its the hacker or black hack fault for ruining your computer , the average person doesnt have the money or the time to patrol his computer 24/7 and stay up day and night to protect his pc.
This worm blaster thing is also MS fault, their plan to get subcription fees to earn profit my leaving their OS full of holes so hackers can exploit it and force the people to subcribe to MS to fix up their half finnished montrosities with patches.
Stupid black hat hackers! - Great Rumbler - 14th August 2003
MS has released a FREE patch that will fix the problem, all you have to do is go to there website and download it.