Quote:Key words being "Nintendo is cheap", actually. Nintendo rarely ever loses money per each piece of hardware that they sell because they make their consoles cheaper than Sony and MS do. Both Sony and MS lose money for each console that they sell (or at least Sony did in the first two years of the PS2's life). Sony is willing to lose more money than Nintendo is.

Quote:I see another N64 vs. PSX situation happening all over again. Nintendo has a stronghold over a particular market, Sony introduces a new system, everyone underestimates them, but all of the third-parties flock to Sony's system because Sony offers much lower licensing and production fees than Nintendo does. Unless Nintendo offers even lower licensing fees and has a new handheld that's just about as powerful as the PSP and comes out no later than a few months after the PSP, I'm afraid to say that Sony will probably dominate the handheld gaming market.

Quote:Sony makes some of the best, most efficient rechargable batteries in the world, so what do you think they'll use? And having a rechargable lithium battery pack isn't a huge improvement over having to spend tons of money on alkaline batteries each year?

Quote:I provided screenshots that showed the drastic difference in graphics quality between the two games, I explained very clearly how the games differ in control and gameplay, and I've repeated myself at least a dozen times now. I will not repeat myself again. If you have that bad of a memory, read the last few pages of this argument. This is ridiculous.

Quote:The jumping in DK64 is very limited. None of the characters can jump very high, and because of that there are no challenging jumping puzzles. There are many more jumping puzzles in the Banjo games, and it's one thing that I sorely missed while playing through DK64.

Quote:Do you think I had a choice?? The only new system I had from 1996-2000 was an N64. The only games I could play were N64 ones, so I sucked the life out of them. I got very well acquainted with each major N64 release, so I have much more experience with them than you do, which is why I can tell the difference between the likes of Dk64 and BK and you cannot.

Quote:That is true, and its the only reason the PSP might come out for a reasonable price. Still, the GBA will be at most half the price of it...

Quote:That COULD happen, but its quite doubtful. The GB has a very long history of success and I doubt it'll just collapse that fast... and the GBA has lots of great games out on it, too... and on the handheld front, as we've seen many times, graphics aren't always the main reason why a console succeeds.

Quote:There is still only so much they can do with disc-based media. Better batteries? Sure. But battery technology (ie length it lasts) hasn't changed in a long, long time... so it is an issue from any way I can see it...

Quote:You provided ONE screen of DK64 that was the equal, quality-wise, of all of the BK shots... and comparing one shot to five is hardly fair or even, so that arguement was pretty pointless. You cannot compare blurry shots to clear ones and say "look, the clear ones are better!"... yet you did that!

Oh, and your things on control and gameplay just aren't convincing, and often don't make sense to me given my playing the games...

Quote:I played DK64 for many hours, and seem to recall quite a bit of platform jumping... B-T hasn't had more, certainly.

Quote:So any time you argue about PC games its fine for me to insult you about how I've had a PC for 8 years longer than you have (we got our first one in January 1992,.and I used the internet for the first time in '95 or '96), so you clearly have no clue what you are talking about and it is obvious that me, the more experienced one, cannot be wrong since I have had the system for longer?

IMO, that arguement just doesn't make sense. Sure it has SOME effect, but NOT SO MUCH THAT YOU CANNOT STILL COMPARE GAMES QUITE WELL.

So you replayed games. I have never been the type to do that, whether I have newer games or not... I generally don't replay the kinds of games you are talking about. Its not really about when I got the console, just how you like to play games... and I think that playing a game once through makes you just as qualified as if you've played it three times... for this kind of arguement, anyway, for sure.

Quote:Sony would still have the edge since they are several times more popular that Nintendo.

Quote:but I am certain that the PSP will secure the #1 spot.

Quote:I see another N64 vs. PSX situation happening all over again. Nintendo has a stronghold over a particular market, Sony introduces a new system, everyone underestimates them, but all of the third-parties flock to Sony's system because Sony offers much lower licensing and production fees than Nintendo does.

Quote:And will be a tenth as powerful as the PSP.

Quote:Maybe it might compete with people on planes, but in the schoolyard, I don't think people will be able to walk around with it and treat it as roughly as you do the Game Boy.

Quote:You're only looking at the Gameboy and rival handheld gaming systems when you make that remark. There have been huge advances in battery technology in the portable electronics device industry, and Sony probably waited until they could come up with a cheap, long-lasting rechargable battery before they decided to enter the handheld gaming arena.

Quote:Popularity is what matters the most. I'm not saying that the Gameboy will crumble, but I am certain that the PSP will secure the #1 spot. Sony is going to draw in a new crowd to handheld gaming, and that is why they will probably succeed. That is what happened with the PlayStation.

Quote:Wow, yet again you make up facts to suit your argument, not even thinking that I would check up on them. I showed four Banjo-Kazooie screens and four DK64 screens, and all of them were from IGN. DK64 also came out long after BK, so the screenshots quality should be even better.

Quote:What can I say, other than that you're full of BS? You obviously don't know what you're talking about, so yet again we've reached another pointless argument because of your ignorance.

Quote:If you actually knew what you were talking about we could have a real discussion going on. But you do not, and I have far more knowledge on this subject than you do, so just quit.

Quote:If you actually knew what you were talking about we could have a real discussion going on. But you do not, and I have far more knowledge on this subject than you do, so just quit.

Quote:But not in the handheld arena.

Quote:How? The GBA has already sold something like 20 million units worldwide and the SP is selling like mad. Yes, having no competition certaintly helps, but you're crazy if you think the PSP is going to take over in the blink of an eye.

Quote:History is said to repeat itself, but people also learn from the past.

Quote:A tenth? The GAME BOY ADVANCE is probably more than a tenth as powerful as the PSP.

Oh, and even Sony of Europe's President doesn't think the PSP will directly compete with the GBA. Here's what he said:

Maybe it might compete with people on planes, but in the schoolyard, I don't think people will be able to walk around with it and treat it as roughly as you do the Game Boy.

Quote:I don't see these "huge changes". I think the electronics the batteries are running have changed (lessening power consumption) far, far more than the batteries themselves... alkalines are pretty much the same now as ever. Any difference is fairly small and won't help Sony enough. Unless you know of something else?

Quote:I doubt it. Not with all the other issues the PSP probably will have... and plus, it'll spur Nintendo to do stuff too...
[quote]

Sure Nintendo will be motivated to get their act together (like not relying almost entirely on SNES ports) with their next handheld, but no matter how many good games there are for the GBA, the PSP will most certainly be more popular. Just look at the PS2's winter lineup and compare it with the Gamecube's lineup from the same time. The GC lineup was several times more impressive yet the system still sold poorly and the most-acclaimed game of the entire year (Metroid Prime) sold less than Splinter Cell on the X-Box and the crappy DBZ PS2 fighter. Nintendo simply isn't popular anymore, unfortunately.

[quote]It is amazing to see you continue to insist that those unequal shots equally represent those games...

Quote:Oh, SO sorry for forgetting that playing five hours of a game in a few days makes me completely ineligible to discuss it...

I AM JUST COMPARING BT AND DK64. AS I SAID. And I DON'T see this big difference in any way.

Quote:I know plenty to have a discussion mostly about B-T and DK64, which is what I have been discussing in this thread. You aren't able to /don't want to acually try to talk about these two games in comparison, it seems... because I keep talking about mostly just them, but you constantly compare them to BK then say how amazingly superior BK is (a game I really have been trying to avoid discussing here...), etc, etc... HOW ABOUT JUST STICKING TO WHAT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ALL ALONG?

It'd also make this discussion make more sense, for sure. As of now it is a bit confusing...




Now...

I know, I know, you think B-K is the best of all of Rare's platformers and that it has so much more platform jumping, better graphics, etc... from the limited stuff I have seen I don't see any proof for that, but I won't argue it much given how I don't have B-K. Now I know SOME people here do either agree with me or think B-K and DK64 are equal... I just wish they'd POST, because this is really getting annoying. I am just trying to discuss the games I have!

Quote:I should have thought of that arguement when you started insulting text-based adventure games... its the perfect "you're an idiot so I don't even have to try to refute your points" arguement that avoids the whole issue of if they are valid...

Because, of course, YOUR OPINION ISN'T THE LAW. Other people CAN disagree with you and not be wrong from an objective standpoint, and it doesn't make them idiots.

Quote:You actually think the PSP will run on alkalines? Don't bet on it, ABF. The lithium battery that Nintendo is using for the SP isn't nearly as powerful as other rechargable batteries, but it wasn't even an option for Nintendo until a few years ago.

Quote:Those were the best shots I could find, and they do a decent enough job of showing the graphical differences between the two games.

And you even admitted to me that you only played BK for a few minutes, so you trying to argue against this is insane.

Quote:I don't expect you to see any differences between the two games.

Quote:Then why did you try to claim that BK is inferior-looking than DK64?? Just another example of you basing your arguments on nothing.

Quote:I manage to have perfectly normal video game discussions with other people that I disagree with, but you are the one that started to claim that your opinion is fact, even when you were completely ignorant of a certain subject (like the graphics debate).

Quote:That's because Sony hasn't released a handheld yet, silly.

Quote:It will take time, but if Nintendo doesn't change their business and marketing practices then Sony will become the leader of the handheld market eventually.

Quote:The GBA is about twice as powerful as the SNES. The PSP is about two or three times (maybe even greater) more powerful than the PlayStation. In terms of 2D processing power both systems with probably be pretty comparable, but when it comes to 3D processing power there is no comparison whatsoever.

Quote:Because when a battery-pack only thing runs out, charging it is a pain

Quote:I'm not sure. I'm sure it'll have battery packs, of course, but as the only option? I'm not convinced that that is a good idea. Why? Because when a battery-pack only thing runs out, charging it is a pain -- you need either a power outlet or several hours to let the thing recharge. Batteries, you just replace... much easier. Sure, it might go recharger-only, but I'm not convinced at all that that'd be a good idea.

Oh, and that's part of another reason why I didn't get an SP -- I'm going to Denmark for 10 days pretty soon and I don't exactly want to have to buy either a European SP AC adaptor or some kind of adaptor... as opposed to batteries...

Also, you must play GBA a LOT to run out of batteries that often. I have still only replaced my GBA's batteries once... of course, I barely play GB most of the time. Its been over a week since I played it last. To use up batteries at the rate you suggest would mean like 20 or 30 hours a week...

Quote:That's why I've been trying to drop the graphics thing.

Oh, but I very highly doubt that IGN doesn't have other equally good shots of DK64...

Quote:Why, because I don't know the difference between a good game and a bad one? That's not true, of course, but its all you can come up with...

Quote:I said that, and you're focusing on it because you think you can easily win, but you ignore the fact that that is a very small amount of stuff compared to how much I've been talking about just BT and DK64 (ie, the three quarters of my posts you don't adaquately address)...

Quote:Completely ignorant is wrong, you know it, and you just sound stupider every time you say that.

You really seem to be trying hard to make two lines of one post or so to sound like my whole arguement when I have really barely discussed BK at all... but you refuse to see that. Note that I never said about graphics anything more than "I think DK's are just as good/better", yet on most all other subjects I back up my statements with facts? There's a reason for that -- those are the ones I'd far rather discuss...

Go back and look and its pretty clear I've been trying to avoid the topic of Banjo-Kazooie's graphics for some time now. I know emulation isn't a fair comparison.

As for gameplay, I HAVE played B-K there, and for GAMEPLAY its the same. So I fail to see how that makes me completely unable to comment on it some, at least as far as the platforming and collecting and stuff go... obviously not as much as the other games (and if you look you'd see that), but some.

Quote:That was my point exactly

Quote:Sony ousted Nintendo as the number one console maker because Nintendo made A LOT of very BIG mistakes [losing Square and others, staying with cartridges, among others]. Unless Nintendo really screws up big time, Sony is going to be fighting an uphill battle.

Quote:No comparison whatsoever? What exactly are you comparing the PSP specs against? When Nintendo releases some specs then we'll do a comparison.

Quote:It's not that big of a pain, just play it during the day and then charge it up at night.

Quote:What? Sony is the most popular company in video game land, so it's probably going to translate into the handheld market.

Quote:Ah, Nintendo hasn't announced a new handheld yet. I was comparing the PSP with the GBA SP. I'm just assuming that the next Nintendo handheld won't be out in 2004 when the PSP launches.

Quote:Well it obviously doesn't work the other way because the GBA sells likes crazy, but the GC is barely in second [or has it slipped to third?] place.

Quote:Ah, okay, but Nintendo has alluded to a new handheld being released, if they're smart [and I know sometimes it seems like they're not] they'll release it close to the PSP's release.

Quote:The GBA sells like crazy because it is the only good handheld gaming system out there. And the GC has been in third place since last year.

Quote:Sony knows this and they're going to do whatever it takes to seriously compete with Nintendo, and I doubt that they will fail.

Quote:The installed userbase(is that one word or two?) of the GBA doesn't really matter since the PSP will be the next-generation of handheld gaming systems. It's like saying that the N5 is doomed to fail because of the incredibly large userbase of the PS2, or that the PSX should have failed because of the SNES's large userbase.

Quote:I don't think it'll fail [meaning it goes under after about a year] either. But, I think at this point to say that the GB is doomed is a bit of a stretch.

Quote:Depending on when Nintendo releases the succesor to the GBA it could be in direct competition with the PSP for some time. The PSX was never really in direct competition with the SNES because it had already hit its stride sometime back and was starting to fade out. Important note: The PSX didn't really take off until after the SNES was already gone and the N64 had stumbled.

Something Nitendo absolutely needs to do, wether they go with miniature DVDs or not, is to make the new GB backwards compatible with past GBs. Build on the success of the past, that's what Sony did with the PS2 and look where that got them.

Quote:I don't think the Gameboy is doomed, I just think there's a good chance that Sony will take the number one spot away from Nintendo in the handheld market.

Quote:The PSX didn't start becoming extremely popular until they started to get all of the big games.

Quote:If the PSP launches with the rumored FF VII-2 then it's a sure bet that it'll become a huge hit.

Quote:Another reason why the PSP could become more successful than the Gameboy is because the PSP will most likely attract a whole new crowd to the handheld market, something that they did with the PlayStation. That is Sony's greatest ally: the casual gamer.

Quote:And I still don't think that's going to happen. I'll try to explain my posistion a bit here: The PSX took the number 1 spot because a lot of the major third parties left Nintendo [some of them completely], on top of that Nintendo stuck with cartridges which certaintly didn't help, and they had a horrible launch. Here's why I don't think that's going to happen again: [1.] I don't think the developers are going to leave the GBA like they did with the N64, [2.] I don't think medium is going to matter as much with handhelds as did for the consoles and Nintendo has said they're looking into to using DVDs with their handheld, and [3.] I don't think the GBA's succesor is going to have the same kind of launch that the N64 had.

Also the N64 couldn't use its predecessor as a springboard to boost sales as the PS2 did and the GBA's successor possibly can. You also need to take into account that "Game Boy" has been a very strong name for 14 years and int that time I'm sure it has developed a large and very loyal fanbase.

Quote:Right, and I don't see the big developers leaving Nintendo behind [at least completely] for the PSP.

Quote:Maybe.

Quote:I think the Gameboy has already brought in a lot of casual gamers. The Gameboy is very popular amoung ALL different kinds of people, its even a fashion symbol in some countries!!

Quote:Could you be a little more coherent next time?

You had to be comparing BK to DK64 since the difference in graphics quality between BT and Dk64 is even greater than the difference in quality between BK and Dk64. So what the hell were you talking about?

Quote:You are unable to effectively comment on this topic because you know very little about it. You do not have enough experience with all three games, so it's pointless for you to continue arguing.

Quote:OB1 has a nastly habit of ignoring the good points in posts so that he doesn't have to deal with silly things like the other person's "good points" and can just focus on the not as good ones... its really annoying, but he does it all the time.

Quote:Anyway... predicting the death of the GB is very, very premature. As others have said, price is VITAL, as is battery life... and I am absolutely unfonvinced that the PSP will be resonable enough in either category.

Quote:Oh... and OB1 you must use your GB an insane amount of time to have saved "hundreds" of dollars, when like $5 can get you 4 AA batteries and another 35 hours of play... or even less, if you shop around.

I know my GBA batteries, just like the GBC before it, last a long time... well over a month, usually. Yeah, I don't use it all that much.

I'm sure you've saved some money... but "hundreds"? Not unless you use your GB some incredible number of hours... per day...

As for me, as I said I'm still on my second pair of batteries and I still have 4 more barely used AA batteries I can use, from Virginia when I got a 8-pack for like $3.

Quote:Graphics: BK and DK. BT obviously has the best graphics of the three, despite the occasional framerate issues. Everything else (unless explicitly stated that I was talking about BK): BT and DK.

Simple enough?

Quote:I have more than enough experience to know that as far as I can see my positions are correct. You don't need to play a game for dozens of hours to figure these things out, that's for sure.

Quote:B-T feels like DK64, but with one character. It doesn't feel like I do any more or less platforming, because you don't. DK64 had just as much platforming as B-T, its just split up some by how you have to do varying tasks as each of the five Kongs instead of doing most stuff as standard Banjo-Kazooie and just limited tasks as the other playable characters.

That is a gameplay difference that does differentiate them, for sure. But nowhere NEAR as dramatically as you make it sound.

And DK64 just doesn't have so much less platforming. That is simply untrue.

As for 3d platformers... I got kind of sick of them after getting three of them in around a year (Mario 64, DK64, Rocket). Oh, they were fun... but it got old, somewhat. So similar, and the idea of 'a small number of open worlds where you collect items' is okay but just not as good as more focused quest platformers, IMO.., That is why I loved Rayman 2 so much -- it was different! Rayman 2 is, IMO, the second best 3d platformer after Mario 64...

Now I'm having fun with B-T, probably, because its been quite a while since I played a 3d platformer...

Look. I didn't think DK64 was one of the best games on the N64. It did get somewhat dull at parts, and there were several levels I didn't like very much. They weren't bad, but I just wasn't that interested by them... but the game WAS fun enough to slowly make progress. Somewhat repetetive? Yeah. Do you spend a lot of time collecting? Well, sure, but you do that in every single game in the genre... DK64 was just different in that it has five characters so you need to go back over places more than usual. I didn't mind that, you clearly did. Difference of opinion, oh well...


As for Banjo-Kazooie, I really should buy that game... eventually...


Oh, and the PSP WILL have to deal with the major issues that its format brings up: battery life (it CAN'T be very good!), fragility (a disc-based media... yes, more fragile and easier to break...), maybe skipping (games, I bet, are harder to deal with that problem with than music is), and most importantly PRICE...

Quote:Only in your own mind.

Oh, and no response to the first paragraph of that quote I had there (that starts 'As for 3d platformers...')? Huh... but you usually don't really respond in any length to the parts that I put the most work into.

Oh, and have you played Rocket? It was pretty good, even if it did get old before the end... 3d platformers based on item-collecting tend to do that... but I did beat the game (though without anywhere near all the tickets).

Also... I got DK64 at Christmas '99. Is that so different from you that you need to constantly say that I didn't have a N64 in 1996 or something? Sure its a bit different for me (I never bought a N64 game for more than $50, for example, and got the system for $100 with two controllers) but not THAT dramatic.

And its not like I wasn't informed, given that I read magazines and the internet...

I just haven't played much of B-K. Just a store demo once and several hours with the rom, which is why I won't compare the graphics -- roms don't look the same as the real thing, I know.

Its a pretty good game but I don't see how its so much better than DK64... maybe because to me its not...

Oh, and I really think its SO STUPID that you must keep saying I have low standards for games. It is just FALSE... I just have DIFFERENT ONES FROM YOU. That is DIFFERENT, not "I LIKE BAD GAMES"...

Quote:Well probably not "hundreds", but definitely well over a hundred dollars since the SP came out.

Quote:What points did I ignore? I replied to every single one of his points and then some. The only defense you ever have is saying that I don't respond to your points, which is a bold-faced lie. You are the one that chooses to ignore my points (like Sony having experience in the handheld market), and sometimes even change your own argument when you're losing.

Quote:Funny how you didn't mention that before, huh? And you claimed that BK's graphics were worse than DK64 even though you only played BK for just a few minutes.

Quote:As far as you see you are correct, but that's not saying much. I have more experience with the games (and the genre as a whole), so I notice the differences between the Banjos and DK much easier than you do.

Quote:Hey, in chat you seemed to say that I hadn't said a bunch of things I said. So here are quotes.

Note my only mention of B-K in that response was to say that I don't have it and should get it eventually.

Quote:Here I say exactly when I got DK64 and exactly how much I have played B-K -- two more facts you seemed surprised by yesterday, yet I have clearly put in this thread in writing days earlier.

I won't bother quoting your responses because they were both about one line long and said nothing. As I said, like usual for the parts of my posts I put the most work into.

Quote:I go through batteries slowly and my parents buy them for me anyway. No issue there.

Quote:Look at the two big quotes of mine up there. You did respond before, but on a level that is very, very marginally above the 'didn't respond' category. And you did that in plenty of of other places too.

The fact you were surprised yesterday by the fact that I don't own B-K and that I haven't played it for more than a few hours, two things I'd said days earlier in this thread, says more than I ever needed to know about how you don't actually read my posts.

Quote:Fine then, we won't talk about B-K's graphics anymore until I get B-K. Which has been my goal for some time in this thread, but you just won't drop it...

Quote:So what exactly must I do to have all this incredible knowledge? Bore myself to the point where I'd rather watch paint drying playing all three games three or four times each? As I said, once through is just as good. And as far as talking about stuff like platform-jumping, unless a game takes a dramatic shift partway through, getting well into it can definitely suffice too...

Now with B-K I already admitted I am a bit sketchy, which is why in all my long comparison posts I do not talk about that game... but B-T? I've played that one plenty to see how it works.

I just find this idea that you need extensive knowledge of a lot of games in the genre, more than I have played (though I have played a fair number of games in this genre, which makes your arguement pretty bizarre...), strange.

I have beaten (the final boss of, not collected all items in) Mario 64, Rocket: Robot on Wheels, Donkey Kong 64, Sonic Adventure 2, and Rayman 2... and also have, and have played a fair amount of, Mario Sunshine and Banjo-Tooie.

Oh, and I've played a few other demos/rentals, such as Croc (the PC version, not the PSX version)... now THAT is a 3d platformer with a lot of platform jumping. a REAL lot. Still, its a fun game...

Quote: you guys are saying is under the assumption that the system will have a battery life of two minutes and cost $700.

Quote:Right now this whole situation is a big question mark, but you are once again underestimating Sony.

Quote:If people are willing to pay several hundred dollars on MP3 players, cell phones, and PDA's, I'm sure they'd be willing to pay around $200 for a PSP

Quote:And what makes you think that third-parties won't flock to the PSP?

Quote:No.

Quote:If we're underestimating them you're overestimating them.

Quote:People usually buy cell phones and PDA's for their JOB.

Quote:Sure, third parties are going to develop PSP games, but they're still going to develope games for Nintendo too.


The point I was attempting to make, which I believe you may have missed, is that although you can find some similarities between Sony entering the console industry and Sony entering the handheld industry the situations are VERY different and I just don't see a repeat happening.

Quote:The point I was attempting to make, which I believe you may have missed, is that although you can find some similarities between Sony entering the console industry and Sony entering the handheld industry the situations are VERY different and I just don't see a repeat happening.

Quote:I'm talking about the graphics debate from the other thread.

Quote:I read your posts, but they don't always make sense. And you always assume that I know certain details about you (like as if I have a journal detailing everything that you've ever told me). You did not tell me that you only played Banjo for a few minutes until after we had that graphics debate.

Quote:Well of course I have more knowledge on the subject if I've played more of the games than you have! Is that such a difficult concept to understand?

BTW Croc sucks.

Quote:Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
Indeed, and as for MP3 players you can get a decent one for $70, which is about what most of the people I know who have one have payed for them. When they shop and see the really expensive ones, they don't see any point in getting it just because of a few extra features here and there, or brand name.

Quote:Yes, absolutely. You just can't compare PSX-N64 to GBA-PSP. Its insane... the situation in each case is so dramatically different that it makes no logical sense whatsover, yet you seem to be doing that, OB1...

Quote:Okay... yeah, I was assuming too much about what you remembered. And as I said, I left that arguement because I just wasn't sure enough about the facts to really continue...

Quote:But I did mention it eventually, and aftterwards you kept on acting like I hadn't said it (until much later that day I said so in chat too)... so it DOES say something about you reading my posts.

Quote:You have played them more but I have played them far more than enough to comment intelligently on the ones I have played. Its really annoying that you won't admit that.

Oh, and Croc is extremely, extremely simplistic platform jumping, sure, but I found it fun... simple, platform-hopping fun.

Quote:The similarities are so striking that I can't believe that you don't see them.

1. Nintendo was king of the market before the PlayStation started to become successful. Now they are way, way behind in third place. Right now Nintendo is king of the handheld gaming market, but they have no competition.

2. When it was starting to look like the PSX could become more popular than Nintendo's system, every fanboy in the world scoffed at that. Then Sony dominated the entire industry. Right now Sony is planning on releasing a powerful handheld to compete with the Gameboy, and every fanboy in the world is scoffing at it.

3. Third-parties flocked to the PSX because Sony offered cheaper software costs and cheaper licensing fees than Nintendo. Right now Nintendo charges third-parties a lot of money for making GBA games, and it's a safe bet that Sony will be the cheaper alternative.

Quote:I bet.

Quote:You've played them, but you haven't played them enough to notice the major differences between them, it seems.

Quote:1. When the PSX came out Nintendo had just above 50% of the worldwide market, not 90-95% like the GB has.

Quote:3. Yeah, liscencing on the PSP well might be lower... and that probably will attract third parties.

But you just keep ignoring that the portable market cannot be directly compared to the main market, or the GB would have never lasted through the Turbografx-portable, Lynx, and Game Gear times of its launch... because all three of those were more powerful, color systems, while GB was weak, with a pathetic speaker, and black and white... yet it CRUSHED them. Why? Battery life and better games. And the GB has crushed all the competitors since.

As for the PSP it probably does have the best chance since the Game Gear. But I highly doubt it'll win.

First... $200 IS what I bet it will cost. And by then the SP will be under $100, and a classic GBA will be very cheap.

Second... there is only so much they can do with batteries. With that media and power, 15 hours seems to me to be far out of their reach. No question. And that will be a critical issue.

Oh... and one more thing.

The SP has been out for a few years. It has amassed a HUGE library of great games. It also can draw on the MASSIVE backlist of great GB and GBC games. That is a huge, huge inventory of very good games.

The SP will be starting from scratch.

That is a KEY difference between the GBA-PSP and N64-PSX that I am amazed that you have ignored!

Quote:I was feeling kinda bad that I was arguing without having played much B-K on a N64... so I quit the arguement. That's the truth.

Quote:Absolutely not true. There are major differences between games from different companies.

But between Banjo-Tooie and Donkey Kong 64? I just don't see any huge thematic differences. I know you say you've said all this before, but when I look back I see you almost always talking about B-K, NOT B-T like I have been...

So, how ARE there dramatic differences in gameplay style between B-T and DK64?

What do I see? I see B-T being a bit faster in pace because you don't have to do as much switching... but you still have to switch (to Mumbo to hit those pads, to the creature that Wumba turns you into to do level-specific tasks, to seperate Banjo and Kazooie...) some, and because you do it for specific tasks and not for major gameplay parts (IE you just switch, do some suff, then go back to normal) I actually found it more annoying than the switching in DK64... at least in that one you could stay as one character for some time as they had real major tasks to do in each level...

But as for stuff like jump height, walking speed, etc. I don't see big differences.

Quote:50%? Are you nuts? The SNES sold better than the Genesis near the end of its life.

Quote:I did not ignore that point! In fact, I addressed it at least twice!!! The PSP will be the next-generation of handheld gaming, which is why Nintendo is prepping another handheld to compete with the PSP! AS I SAID BEFORE, does the N5 have no chance of being a success because the PS2 has such a large userbase? NO!!! And why is that? BECAUSE IT WON'T BE COMPETING WITH THE PS2, IT WILL BE COMPETING WITH THE PS3!!!! Are you really that naive??

EVERYTHING that you are saying is under the assumption that the PSP will be a complete battery-hog, and I seriously doubt that will happen. Sony is not stupid, they know that if the battery life isn't good then it will fail! You are are grossly underestimating Sony here.

Quote:I was talking about BT, although that game does have less "jumping puzzles" than BK (but still much more than Dk64). There is some switching in the game, but it isn't nearly as frequent as it is in DK64.

Quote:True. Okay, by late 1995 when the PSX came out here it was over 50% worldwide. But not so dramatically that they dominated the industry, for sure... Sega was strong competition. There is nothing like that in handhelds. All the others failed.

Quote:It will still compete with the GBA. The GBA will be 3 1/2 years old -- not at the end of its life cycle yet (the GBC's 2 1/2 year cycle excluded... that was too short...). Yes, the PSP is far more powerful... but as the console market has established many times, POWER ISN'T EVERYTHING. Game library, price, battery life, etc... other things matter more.

Otherwise we'd be playing ... uh, Neo-Geo Pocket Colors and Turbografx Portables...

Quote:You were talking about where? This arguement is a mess... can you quote it or something then?

Oh, and IMO B-T's switching is more annoying because, as I said, in B-T you just switch to to a task then switch back... it seems kind of pointless... while in DK you have a even spread of tasks and powers across the characters. SUre, you don't spend much time in other forms in B-T, but IMO its comparitively more annoying than switching in DK64... because I just didn't think that the switching was a problem in that game. You have plenty to do in each character... its not like you switch constantly. Well, I don't.

Quote:Nintendo and Sega combined could not stop Sony. Right now Sony controls roughly 70% of the console gaming market (just a rough guess). If anybody can overthrow Nintendo's Gameboy, it's them.

Quote:Graphics don't matter? Yeah I bet Nintendo would have had lots of success if they had just kept the SNES in the market instead of introducing the N64.

Quote:The Dreamcast was a failure because of Sega's poor marketing, the lack of solid third-party support, and because Sega simply wasn't popular anymore at the time.

Quote:If the PS2 were as poweful as the PSX, it of course wouldn't have stood a chance next to the Gamecube and X-Box. The PS2 is comparable to the 'cube and 'box, so graphics aren't really an issue. The GBA has no chance of competing with the PSP, which is why Nintendo is making another handheld to combat it. It the PSP was released by any other company then sure, graphics wouldn't matter. But this is Sony we're talking about.

Quote:I had absolutely no problem with the switching characters in BT since you didn't do it nearly as often as you did in DK64.

Quote:Its not 70% if you count handhelds...

Oh, and they have the resources and a big name. But handhelds are DIFFERENT... you say you account for that, but it just doesn't look like you are giving that fact enough credit.

Quote:In the handheld market, idiot! HANDHELD MARKET. Like how the pathetically weak Game Boy got crushed by the more powerful Lynx, TurboGrafx-Portable (I REALLY wish I remembered the thing's real name... ), Lynx, NeoGeo Pocket, NeoGeo Pocket Color, WonderSwan, Game.Com, etc, handily, right?

Didn't think so.

As I said, other things matter a LOT in this market and you are just overestimating Sony's ability to avoid them.

Quote:Yes, of course. Your point to the topic, then?

Quote:But the GBA is still relatively recent and has a very, very good lineup of released and upcoming games. Sure, PSP has better graphcs, and that'll draw some people... but the GBA will do very well by sheer momentum alone for quite some time... and of course eventually Nintendo will release a better Game Boy. No, I'm not too worried that the PSP will get over half the market. Far too many question marks to even begin to say that.

Quote:But B-T has just one place to do each kind of switch in each level... you have to go out of your way to go there, then do one or two tasks then go back. Irritating, especially when compared to DK where you would just switch when you've done everything you can for a character in a level -- something that takes a long time -- or you get bored as that character...

And to me that is far, far less annoying.

Quote:You don't switch characters often in BT, while in Dk64 you have to do it every two friggin' minutes.

Quote:First you suggest that we count handhelds, now you're trying to say that they're a totally different market. Pick one, damnit!

Quote:I really don't understand your messed up logic that suggests that Sony's popularity in the console industry won't translate into the handheld industry even if their PSP is at the right price with a decent battery life. You are really deluding yourself if you truly believe that.

Quote:None of those other handhelds stood a chance against the Gameboy because they were either from unpopular companies, had terrible battery lives, or both, dumbass! You're the same kind of idiotic fanboy that didn't think the PSX could take over the market, and then thought that the Gamecube would place Nintendo in the lead again. You are being very foolish and very naive, but what else can I say? You'll just have to wait and see how wrong you are when the PSP launches. I'll be here rubbing this thread into your face when it launches with great success.

Quote:You were referring to the Dreamcast when you said that "graphics don't matter", but you fail to realize that this is Sony we're talking about, not Sega. Graphics do matter when you have close competition.

Quote:None of those other handhelds stood a chance against the Gameboy because they were either from unpopular companies, had terrible battery lives, or both, dumbass! You're the same kind of idiotic fanboy that didn't think the PSX could take over the market, and then thought that the Gamecube would place Nintendo in the lead again. You are being very foolish and very naive, but what else can I say? You'll just have to wait and see how wrong you are when the PSP launches. I'll be here rubbing this thread into your face when it launches with great success.

Quote:For the last time, the PSP will not be competiting with the GameBoy, just as the X-Box 2 will not be competing with the Gamecube! Nintendo will probably have their new handheld out sometime around or after Sony releases the PSP, and that is what it is going to be competing with. Nintendo is scared about this, which is why they practically announced a new handheld last week. They know that the GBA will not be able to compete with the PSP, so they're making a new one! Get this through your thick skull!

Quote:I don't remember ever switching every couple of minuites in that game. Well, maybe a FEW times, but not many at all. I would just switch to a character then stay with that one until I got bored with its tasks or completed everything I could in that level... which often can be quite a while. I don't know how you played, but I didn't switch every few minuites.

Quote:Handhelds are part of the industry but they have some different rules. Simple.

Quote:I'm doubtful that both of those things will happen... though it is possible, its doubtful. Especially the price -- there is no way it could be low enough to have mass success on a level to quickly challenge the Game Boy...

Quote:GBA is still selling on par with the PS2... it has a huge installed base... I just don't see any possible way that Sony will just come in and take over the industry like it did with the PSX. The market conditions would have to be perfect, like they were, and this time its just not like that!

Quote:Actually, I never referred to the Dreamcast, which is why I was confused by your mentioning it... where did you think I was talking about it?

It was pretty clear to me that I was talking about how the weak GB beat all the more powerful systems... and nothing else...

Quote:You are giving Sony far more credit than they deserve. But we'll see in upcoming months how the PSP turns out... it really IS a bit early now...

Quote:I am sure that for a while the PSP WILL be competing with the GBA. Its just foolish to say that Nintendo will have a new console out at the same time... sure, if it is some amazing success despite the odds it will chip away at the GB's huge base, but the GB just has so much strength in this market that it'll last for a long time. I am also sure that it'll still get great games, if just because of the huge size of its base and the fact that it still isn't that old... sorry, but you are wrong. They will be competing... and the PSP is far more powerful, sure, but I think the GBA can hold its own for plenty long to give it a decent lifespan and for Nintendo to make its next portable a little while later.

Or do you forget how the NES, SNES, and PSX all lasted for a long time after competition that was better came out?

Quote:You had to switch very often in DK64, much more often that you did in BT.

Quote:Because the GBA is so cheap, the PSP has a greater chance of being a success! When you buy a $300 console, it takes a lot of convincing to go out and buy another $300 console. But when you have a relatively cheap, $100 handheld and something big and better comes out for just a $100 more, it's not that difficult of a decision to make.

Quote:Any if Sony follows these so-called rules then they have a very good chance of dominating the market.

Quote:I seriously doubt that the next Nintendo handheld will be $100. It'll probably be at around the same price of the PSP, which I'm guessing will be no more than $200.

Quote:None of the other systems were that much more powerful than the Gameboy, and they failed because the brands weren't popular, the battery lives were too short, and/or the prices were too high. I'd be very surprised if the PSP had a short battery life and cost too much money. If Sony plays their cards right they have a an extremely good chance of taking the number one spot in the handheld market.