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+--- Thread: The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) (/showthread.php?tid=908)
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 8th August 2003
Not really.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 8th August 2003
Oh come on, you're not that stupid! Most games in this genre just have 'beat on people with punch and maybe kick'. Or jump kick. And that's about it. This one is QUITE DIFFERENT! Its got a great fighting system with far more variety than most hand-to-hand beat-em-ups! I really don't see how you say it doesn't... I mean, MOST BEAT EM UPS DO NOT HAVE MANY, IF ANY, SPECIAL MOVES. ONI HAS AT LEAST A DOZEN OF THEM!
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 8th August 2003
Wow, it has special moves! Holy crap!
I seriously hope you're joking since that's a pretty stupid thing to say. Most beat-em-ups have "special moves".
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 8th August 2003
First. HOW MUCH HAVE YOU PLAYED THE GAME? You haven't said that yet... if you've just played the demo or something what you are saying would make more sense.
Special moves. Such as punch-punch-punch for a simple one, or the spin move where you spin around their neck, backbreaker, the spinkick, etc... cool looking moves that vary combat a lot. :)
http://oni.godgames.com/feature/oni_feature.html
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 8th August 2003
Those moves are nothing special. I have played plenty of the game and it's very average.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 8th August 2003
Oh, so now its average? Before it was "so bad"... :)
I just don't see how you see the combat system as simple compared to other beat em up games. Sure, compared to a full one-on-one fighter its simple, but it has a very deep system for its genre, with a wide variety of moves to use that are both useful and cool looking... plus of course the weapons, which are alright. Some are better than others.
"button masher"? I just don't see how you can say that... sure it involves beating on people but EVERY GAME IN THE GENRE IS LIKE THAT! This one differs things by, unlike pretty much the whole rest of the genre, giving you a variety of moves to use... and of course it makes it all look great. :)
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 9th August 2003
I'm saying average now to spare your feelings.
The combat is very simple in the game, and when that is all a game is about then it should have more depth to it. The reason why old beat-em-ups like Double Dragon and TMNT worked was because of multiplayer support. Without that they wouldn't have interested me at all.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 9th August 2003
Yes, multiplayer would have been great, what with the wide variety of moves and stuff. but the single player campaign is good enough that the lack of multi doesn't cripple the game.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 9th August 2003
Hey you can go ahead and like it all you want to. You don't need my permission.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 9th August 2003
Its not the fact that you dislike the game that I have a problem with... that of course is your opinion. Its just that your main reasons don't make sense... though they do a bit more once you consider that you said you pretty much dislike the whole genre.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 9th August 2003
I don't hate the genre, it's just that multiplayer has always been the only draw for me. With such shallow gameplay you really do need some multiplayer support. Otherwise I'd rather play The Mark of Kri or Way of the Samurai.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 9th August 2003
Haven't played those games, but based on Mark of Kri's TV ads it sure doesn't look like a beat em up...
As for "shallow gameplay" you have one strange definition of "shallow", since I see no way in the world that Oni's combat system is shallow and simplistic.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 10th August 2003
It's not really a beat-em-up, but you do go around levels fighting people, so there are some similarities.
For a simple beat-em-up Oni's fighting is more complex than most in the genre, but that's not saying much at all. I could stand the very simple fighting if I had a buddie to fight along with me, but that's not the case so the game does not interest me.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 10th August 2003
To me that game looks like an action game... it sure doesn't look like a beat 'em up.
And you just have strange standards for simple. Very strange.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 10th August 2003
You mean that I don't have ridiculously low standards like you do.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 10th August 2003
Absolutely not. I just mean that we have different ideas of what games are, and applying yours to me just doesn't work.
I don't have low standards for good games. There are a lot of bad to mediocre games, especially in a genre that was historically overrun with mediocricy like the beat em up game.
But Oni, and its fighting system in particular, rises far, far above that. As all the reviews of the game I have read have said, the fighting system is great, one of the best ever in the genre, and its only a few other things that bring down the score.
If you dislike Oni's fighting system you clearly do not like beat em ups. As you have said. So saying that I like the fighting system in the game with one of the best in the genre is saying that you don't like the genre. Which is fine... except you shouldn't be saying that if I happen to somewhat LIKE that genre I am stupid and have low standards for good games. Because it is false.
Want a bad beat em up, from the 32/64 bit generation? Look at Fighting Force (wow did that game stink), or a dozen other games... but not Oni. No way.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 11th August 2003
Like I said before, if the game had co-op support I would probably like it, but as a single player game it simply sucks IMO. There's no depth whatsoever, and when it comes to fighting I like to have depth if that's all a game relies on.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 11th August 2003
I just don't understand calling the combat system simple. Because I've played this game far, far more than you have (there, I can use your idiotic "I know better because you haven't played it enough" arguement! And you evidently believe in that idea, so it must apply here too...), and I don't see that at all. I see a fairly easy to use, but relatively deep and complex, system of armed and unarmed combat with a great variety of guns and moves to use. Simple? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 11th August 2003
Complex to you, but very simple to me. I'm used to very complex fighting systems.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 11th August 2003
I am still very confused what your ideas of "complex" and "simple" are in beat em ups.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 11th August 2003
*slaps self on forehead*
Never. Fucking. Mind.
Meditate on it for a while.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 11th August 2003
Okay... I get it now.
You are comparing it to other genres and saying it isn't as deep as tournament fighters or larger scale action games. Well... probably true. But for my point, about this game and the genre it is in, it really doesn't matter except to prove my point about how you shouldn't make fun of people for liking (more than you, anyway) a genre which you find boring...
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 11th August 2003
For the upteenth time already, I do not find the genre boring! I like a bunch of beat-em-ups, but only in multiplayer mode. Oni has no multiplayer mode, so all you're left with is a very simple fighting game.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 11th August 2003
Oh, I agree that it'd be better with a multiplayer mode... but I just can't come anywhere CLOSE to calling the fighting system simple.
Is it simpler than a 1 on 1 fighting game? Yes. But it is dramatically more complex than a normal beat em up? Yes. It is a fairly deep and complex fighting system that, while it doesn't match the depth of tournament fighters, still has plenty of depth and I wouldn't call it simple in comparison to anything. No way.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 11th August 2003
You wouldn't call it simple in comparison to Virtua Fighter 4?? Wow, it's very obvious by that statement that you haven't played the game for more than a few seconds. The VF games are so complex that after years of playing the series I'm still learning new things, and back when VF 2 came out they even offered classes in Japan to teach people how to effectively play the game. You obviously haven't played a decent fighter for more than a few moments, otherwise you wouldn't have said something as incredibly ignorant as that.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 11th August 2003
I've only played a few hours of VF4... and yes, it is quite deep. Certainly much deeper than Oni, or most fighting games... not sure about Soul Calibur though, I've only played the Soul Calibur 2 demo and that doesn't show off great depth. But that's a very limited look at the game.
I'm just saying that for the kind of game it is it is very deep. There are a bunch of guns, which are all quite different and you have to manage them since you can only hold one at a time... or there is the martial arts, which has a bunch of quite cool moves to get the enemies with. I don't see why you find it so simple for the kind of game it is, since its so much deeper than any other game in the genre I can think of...
As for comparing it to 1v1 fighters, sure, the best of them are far deeper as far as fighting system goes... but Oni can hold its own with the simple end of the genre (maybe like... DOA? :) ), and because of how different from a fighting game it is (you fight multiple enemies, go through environments, deal with item/jumping puzzles, etc, etc...), I really don't see why this is a 'the fighting system isn't as deep as Virtua Fighter so its a bad game" situation... VF of course is deeper but Oni plays so, so differently and focuses on different aspects of gameplay so saying that as a major negative thing like you are is wrong.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 11th August 2003
You directly compared Oni's fighting system to the likes of Virtua Fighter which is just so inane words cannot describe how I feel right now. But you haven't played much of these games, so I'll let it slide this one time.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 11th August 2003
You seem to forget that I wrote just a couple sentences -- of course I can't give the depth I did in that second post you just ignored. And I said that VF is deeper! Are you ignoring that too? Its kind of odd... I SAID VF IS DEEPER! I just also said that (once you consider how dramatically different the gameplay is and how the game is designed) I wouldn't call Oni simple.
Yes, its simpler than Virtua Fighter. Most any fighting game is, so that's not saying much.
But no, it is not "simple".
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 12th August 2003
I was talking about your previous post. Oni is very simple if you play lots of complex fighters like I do. You do not, so you have lower standards. Just accept that and move on.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 12th August 2003
Ugh, come on. You are being so, so annoying about this...
I just don't see why Virtua Fighter has much of anything to do with Oni. It fails to make any sense whatsoever to me. Different genres are different! They are held to different standards! I don't complain about sports games because I don't shoot people or something... why are you complaining that beat em ups use fighting systems that are simple relative to the deepest 1v1 fighter in existance? It just doesn't make sense to me... the gameplay experience is so dramatically different that you just cannot even begin to hold them to the same standards.
And anyway as I've said ONCE YOU CONSIDER ALL THE FACTORS (level design, enemy quantity, weapons, hand-to-hand abilities, etc...), Oni more than stands up as a game with good depth in its genre (as in, action games or beat em ups...). Which is more than enough for me. It is fairly simple to learn, yet has great depth in variety of attacks... which makes it a lot of fun.
I'd just be happy if you'd just admit that you dislike this genre and thus your insulting me for finding it fun is wrong... because its VERY clear from your posts that that's the case, yet you keep acting like I have some problem for finding Oni fun while its SO OBVIOUS that its boring and the combat is so simple and dull... :chainsaw:
VF is deeper than it. But VF is, as you said, deeper than most any tourney fighter. Or action game, of course. But I just don't see how that even remotely affects the quality of an ACTION GAME.
People don't expect Doom to have a great storyline, just like they don't expect Oni to have a combo system as deep as VF! Honestly, with Oni's gameplay, a much deeper fighting system would not work at ALL... its about as deep as you can get with a action game and still keep the action fluid and easy to control.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 12th August 2003
You compared Oni to VF, not me!
I'm not going to repeat myself again, ABF. You constantly ignore my points and make me repeat myself over and over.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 12th August 2003
I really don't see how that post would have a response where you would repeat yourself given that this aspect of the arguement is fairly new and not exactly like what we were talking about before...
And you mentioned VF first. That is a fact, along with Soul Calibur. I didn't.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 12th August 2003
But then you actually dared to compare Oni with them.
Ok, this is how it is, and I'm not going to repeat myself again.
-I like a bunch of beat-em-ups, but usually just the ones with multiplayer support.
-I do not like Oni for several different reasons, but mainly because compared to other fighting games the fighting system in Oni is extremely simplistic. Compared to other beat-em-ups it's deep, but then there's no multiplayer support to make it fun for me.
That's it.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 12th August 2003
Quote:compared to other fighting games
Its not a fighting game and shouldn't be compared to them on a even 'which has the deeper fighting system' basis.
That's it.
:D
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 12th August 2003
When that's all a game is about it can be compared to them.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 12th August 2003
But the game plays so dramatically differently from a fighting game that comparing them seems silly to me... they are each very different. Not directly comparible feature-wise like that, not even remotely. I'd explain why, but I already have five times!
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 12th August 2003
And I've explained why I don't like the game at least five [i]dozen[/] times now!
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 12th August 2003
Fine. Then we will just agree that we have a difference of opinion on the quality of single player action-beat em up games. :)
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 12th August 2003
Yeah, I like good games and you uh, well you know... :p
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 12th August 2003
This game where you run around and hit people (with a good story)? :)
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - OB1 - 13th August 2003
You talking about Oni?
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 13th August 2003
Yes. You run around beating people up and I think the story is pretty good, as is the ingame character models. :)
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - Great Rumbler - 13th August 2003
I saw a bunch of brand-new copies of Oni at Hastings for $8.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 13th August 2003
I got it January ... '01? I think it was '01, anyway... fairly soon after it came out... for $30. :)
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - Great Rumbler - 22nd March 2005
Well you got ripped off, because you could have waited and it gotten it for $8. It's probably even less now.
The Best PC Games Ever (or at least a long list of good ones) - A Black Falcon - 22nd March 2005
Um, no. First, the PC version is somewhat rare. And second, who says it went down a lot in price soon after I bought it? I'm not certain... it obviously did eventually, but who knows how soon after doing that it vanished from stores... I don't think it was that long.
Oh yeah, and if you got it used you might not get the box, which would be too bad. Oni for PC has a very cool box.