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Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 19th June 2003
Oh and some talk about the next Nintendo system. From GAF:
Quote:Gamefront reports that Mario 128's developement concentrates on new ideas which haven't been done before. This is the reason that no actual footage was shown at this year's E3; they feared that their ideas would be stolen.
The work on a Gamecube successor is on course and Nintendo is in contact with many software producers. Nintendo is making improvements ideas and taking criticism opinions to ensure that it will take the lead in the next console war.
Source: Gamefront
Posted by Serafitia on 6.19.2003
God I hope that's true. And I really hope it comes out before the N-whatever does.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
That would be great... new ideas are needed. And I agree, it needs to come out before the N-2005.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Dark Jaguar - 19th June 2003
Hmm, one thing.
Nintendo said the EXACT same thing when everyone wanted info on Sunshine, that they were working on new ideas they didn't want others to steal.
We got a water pump.
Therefor, may I present what I think the new idea is.
Mario gets...
A flamethrower!
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 19th June 2003
I was about to say the same thing, but you do have to realize that when Nintendo showed Mario 64 for the first time just about everyone copied it, and one developer even made a copycat so fast that it came out before Mario 64 did. That game was Bubsy 3D. So they were probably just extra paranoid with Mario Sunshine, even though there was nothing really innovative about it.
However, before Sunshine came out Miyamoto was telling everyone how Sunshine is evolutionary rather than revolutionary, which basically meant that it was just a continuation of the Mario 64 formula. But he did say that the next Mario game would bring the series in a whole new direction, and there have been rumors stating that Mario 128 was the game that was originally meant for the N64, the Mario game that would revolutionize the genre once again. Here's what he said about Mario 128 last December: "I believe that with this game you'll be able to feel the "newness" that was missing from Mario Sunshine."
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Dark Jaguar - 19th June 2003
Oh please let that be so!
That being said, though Wind Waker was indeed a game that had many things new about it, and was far more innovative than Sunshine, it didn't quite have that breathtaking "I've never seen a game like this before!" feel of OOT. Maybe the sequal that the MM guy is working on will do that. It may use the same engine, but I'm sure it can be done. I suspect the next game will involve the quest to find the new Hyrule, and with that in mind, a journey of discovery across an even wider ocean (with some more shortcuts of course) could be done, with HUGE continents to explore rather than just islands. How would it feel totally amazing like never before? I'm not sure... I suspect it'll be adult Link this time, which may allow for new things. Maybe some sort of relationship thing could be done. Perhaps a political side game could play a part, with Link and Zelda having to win over the opinion of the current residents of the new land, or something. However, something kinda similar was done in Ogre Battle, though I'm sure in Zelda it would have a unique twist. I dunno, I'll leave it in the hands of the Majora's Mask genius, though to be honest I have no choice in the matter :D (yet). Despite any of this, only two things are really needed for the new game, even if i does end up just being a basic sequal to WW. It needs a bit more length, and it needs a bit, well maybew a lot, more difficulty.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
Well... WW wasn't super-innovative, no. But did Nintendo ever say that its gameplay would be innovative? I don't remember any of that... I remember them talking about the graphics, but the gameplay? Its not innovative. The boat makes it different from previous Zelda games, but not innovative.
As for the next Mario game... I think it is encouraging that Miyamoto talked about how the new game will have the innovation SMS lacked. That is a good sign... because SMS lacked innovation, and if they can innovate the genre again it'd be great. But we'll see to see what this innovation is... I hope for something big, not the equilivant of WW's oceans (something new to the series but not revolutionizing gaming). :)
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Nintendarse - 19th June 2003
By fearing that people will steal your ideas, you assume that you have a finite well of ideas. That's not a good way to be innovative. Nobody ever innovated by being afraid.
Sure, there was Bubsy 3D, but does anyone remember that as the first 3D platformer? Does anyone care about Chameleon Twist? The 3D platforming games that sold well were the 3D platforming games that deserved to sell well: Super Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie.
When you get defensive about your innovation, you tend to innovate less. You tend to think minor additions (water pump, vacuum) are big innovations. Nintendo promised ideas that were worthy of keeping secretive. Nothing I've seen so far out of Gamecube deserves this kind of paranoia. I've had a load of fun with Gamecube. There are some of the best gaming experiences in Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Wind Waker, SMS, Eternal Darkness, REmake, Skies of Arcadia Legends, SSBM, and Timesplitters 2, but nothing takes my idea of gaming and redefines it. Nothing strikes me as a completely new idea. Originally, this is what I expected out of Gamecube. 3D gaming will take a few more generations to reach its peak, and Gamecube was a small step toward that. But Nintendo said, "No, Arsey, you can expect big new ideas out of Gamecube, ideas that are so new that we're keeping them secret." Maybe we're just mutually delusional.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Great Rumbler - 19th June 2003
I can't wait to hear more about Mario 128 and to finally see some screenshots. From everything that I have heard about it so far it's going to be an awesome game.
It's encouraging to know that they are asking developers what they want and making changes accordingly.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Weltall - 19th June 2003
They're not really going to call it Mario 128, are they? I mean, GameCube's processor is 64 bits too. Perhaps Super Duper Mario 64?
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Great Rumbler - 19th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Weltall
They're not really going to call it Mario 128, are they? I mean, GameCube's processor is 64 bits too. Perhaps Super Duper Mario 64?
I assumed that Mario 128 was just a place-holder name that they could use until they came up with the final name.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
It'll have some other final name of course but until they announce it it'll be Mario 128...
Oh, and Nintendarse... you are right, Nintendo seems to of late be calling minor improvements 'innovation' in several games, and its kind of odd. Wind Waker isn't innovative... yet for some reason they say it is. I've been using jetpacks in games since 1997, minimum... yet Mario Sunshine's jetpack is an innovation. Huh?
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 19th June 2003
Nintendo never said that either WW or Sunshine were going to be terribly innovative. But Miyamoto did say that the next Mario and Zelda games will be innovative and will take both series in a whole new direction. That's pretty encouraging, eh? Although for some reason I have a feeling that we're going to get one more WW-like Zelda game (like MM to OoT) before we see that "whole new direction" he spoke of. I bet that'll be saved for the next system.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
Nintendo has said "WW is innovative"... I'm not sure about Miyamoto, though. But it is true that they have emphasized it a lot more with the next ones... so I hope that means good things.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 19th June 2003
I know that Miyamoto never said that. Not about the gameplay, anyhow.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Weltall - 19th June 2003
I distinctly remember the whole deal with Nintendo guarding Mario's stupid little waterpack as though it were the friggin' cure for cancer or something.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 19th June 2003
Yeah that was pretty ridiculous.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
Yeah... it was so secret, then it was a JETPACK. A JETPACK.
Games have had characters with jetpacks for many, many years.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - CartoonDevil - 19th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
I've been using jetpacks in games since 1997, minimum... yet Mario Sunshine's jetpack is an innovation. Huh?
First jetpack I used was in 1983, a game called Jetpac on the Spectrum (devved by <I>Ultimate - Play the Game</I> that has sinced evolved into <I>Rare Ltd.</I>)
Innovative my ass.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 19th June 2003
I don't think Nintendo thought it was very innovative, it's just that they're waaay too secretive.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
The first game I played with a jetpack was Jetpack, a PC shareware puzzle game released in the early-mid '90s. Its a fun game... and you have a jetpack on which you use to fly to get the gems (you have to collect items then get to a door while avoiding enemies because you have no weapons except one that works like the weapon in Lode Runner).
And I agree, they are way too secretive.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Smoke - 20th June 2003
I think I've played that game ABF. THe first game with a jetpack I can remember playing though was H.E.R.O. on the Atari 800.
Correction: It was a helicopter pack. Same gameplay though. :p
As for the Mario 128 stuff: Sounds good. They better not be BSing us with PR though.
However, Mario will NEVER be as good as it once was. Not as long as it plays like a collect-a-thon exploration game. Gimme some straight up 2D Mario action. Emphasis on ACTION. And where's my damn fire flower??
Mario 128 news... just a bit - CartoonDevil - 20th June 2003
Flower Power rocked!
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Darunia - 20th June 2003
Quote: But Miyamoto did say that the next Mario and Zelda games will be innovative and will take both series in a whole new direction.
I dunno; I think that WW was pretty innovative, but not so much in a good way. The whole fruity, whimsical, colorful cartoon thing was new to us, but it wasn't a particularly wonderful form of new. I hope that this NEW innovation will actually be innovative, and in a good way. Maybe add a few new weapons to the standard sword-bow-boomerang thing.
Quote:Although for some reason I have a feeling that we're going to get one more WW-like Zelda game (like MM to OoT) before we see that "whole new direction" he spoke of. I bet that'll be saved for the next system.
Dear god I hope you're wrong. WW was a great game, but a new direction would be better...just that super-cool, super-realistic video they released shortly after MM but before they unveiled WW's new look.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - big guy - 20th June 2003
that video wasn't exactly "super realistic" but it was very cool...but let's not start this argument again.
and besides, that realistic look wouldn't be innovative in any way...the game could be, but the look would not be.
i want them to merge graphical styles. use the character models from the "realistic version" but cell shade them. it's be like cel shaded ocarina of time graphics, only better. and i don't think they'd need a new engine to do that. it'd be sweet.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 20th June 2003
If you grew up with the 2D Zeldas the cartoon look was a very welcome return.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - CartoonDevil - 22nd June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
If you grew up with the 2D Zeldas the cartoon look was a very welcome return.
Again, your opinion. I grew up with Link from his very first adventure. I did not enjoy the cel-shaded style for Wind Waker.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Weltall - 22nd June 2003
I didn't like the style of Wind Waker either. I mean, don't get me wrong, the cel-shading was spectacular, it looked incredible, but it also made the game feel too light. OOT actually felt gritty compared to this, and I liked there being a slight bit of sinistry that WW seemed to lack. It felt like a cartoon, and that was the intent, I just don't think it should have.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 22nd June 2003
Well I certainly prefer the look of WW much more than OoT's. I don't want Lord of the Rings Zelda. I want Link to the Past Zelda.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 22nd June 2003
Link to the Past Zelda is too cartoony. Its not bad... its just more cartoony than is best for the series. And WW is the same.
I completely agree, its lacking that 'grittiness' and the greater darkness and emotional depth that WW just lacks, despite its nice story...
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Dark Jaguar - 22nd June 2003
You two already said your opinions to each other, the same ones, why say them again... ever? What, memory not so good these days?
The thing about Zelda is that the mood IS like Lord of the Rings. It's neither totally "dark" nor totally "light". It's a mixture, like a good story should be. That's why Spawn and the like SUCK, because they stay on that same note of "tortured soul" the WHOLE TIME. The great thing about Zelda is it is light and happy one moment and then suddenly plunges into the dark, only to see the light again. Wind Waker shows that off perfectly. (Wait until you have gotten further, or maybe beat it, to see what I mean ABF.)
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 22nd June 2003
I don't need to beat WW to know that its nowhere close in darkness or emotional depth, given that OoT had more in its first third than this game so far (I'm in the Wind Temple).
I like the story... but mostly because of how it says what happened after OoT. I imagine that the story would seem a lot less interesting if you haven't played OoT...
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 23rd June 2003
Zelda is definitely not like The Lord of the Rings. Not visually, anyhow. Zelda came from Miyamoto's memories of playing around in the woods as a little kid. It's very innocent, which is something that I felt was missing in OoT. And it's the very same reason why Miyamoto wanted to change the look for WW.
I just find it hilarious how ABF and others say that it's "not right!" for Zelda, thinking that they know what it should be more than the man who created it. The only reason why I say the more light-hearted look is right for Zelda is because the creator of the series feels the same way about it. If I didn't like the innocent, happy look of Zelda then I wouldn't be afraid of saying so, but I definitely wouldn't proclaim it as absolute fact like ABF does. I'd just say that I don't like it.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 23rd June 2003
We've had this discussion before.
The creator decides how the series goes.
The creator doesn't decide how I think the series should go.
What the creator does isn't necessarially the best thing to do.
Simple enough?
Mario 128 news... just a bit - big guy - 23rd June 2003
i understand what ABF is saying
he's merely saying that since he enjoys the darker feel of OoT, to him it is the better look.
it doesn't matter what miyamoto thinks, because ABF (and myself for that matter) don't like his ideas on the series' look.
if nintendo ever let me design a game with the zelda license, you'd see a much grittier game than WW and even MM and OoT, because i feel that the characters would work well in that scenario...but it'll never happen. maybe i'll change the names and faces and make the game i want, and try to not get sued. unfortunately i have no knowledge of how to make a video game, so i will probably never accomplish this goal.
anyway, regardless of what miyamoto thinks, ABF and i don't like the look of wind waker as much as that of OoT. so from our perceptions, the OoT look is better for the series. anyone, including miyamoto is welcome to disagree, but to us, OoT is the way to go.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 23rd June 2003
Exactly.
And I agree, a dark (darker than OoT/MM, which have dark parts that show how cool the series would be if it went farther) Zelda would be great... that'd be very cool. But it'll never happen, unfortunately... :(
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Great Rumbler - 23rd June 2003
Let's not start this debate up again. Nothing good came out of it the first time we had it.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 23rd June 2003
Way too late now. :)
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Great Rumbler - 23rd June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Way too late now. :)
Perhaps or perhaps not. A blatant abuse of my mod powers might prevent this debate from starting up again...
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 23rd June 2003
But I'm a mod too and want to have the debate again. :p
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Great Rumbler - 23rd June 2003
So, it's to be an internal power struggle? You just name the place and I'll be there!
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 23rd June 2003
Here. Anytime, I'll be ready... :evil:
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 23rd June 2003
big guy, that's not what I'm talking about. It's all good and fine if that's your personal opinions, but ABF here is not just saying that "to me it sucks", he's acting as if his opinion is the only right one here.
And to respond to your comment about the creator not always being right, that's bullshit. Zelda is something born of the wonderful imagination of Miyamoto, something that is 100% his. Saying that he's not right would be like me saying that Van Gough's paintings aren't right, that they don't fit my vision of what they should be. My vision doesn't mean shit. It's his damn vision, not mine. If Miyamoto wanted to turn Link into a 100-foot lizard creature it would still be right because it's his creation! You could of course argue that he is making games for his fans, but that's not neccessarily true. Miyamoto could have just as easily been a painter or a toy maker or anything else. He continues to make video games because that is his artistic outlet. Now then you could say "well what matters is how well a game sells" and that would be partially true. Nintendo is in the business to make money, but that has never stopped the likes of Miyamoto from doing what they want to do. It just so happens that what he wants, most of us want.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 23rd June 2003
Er... actually I was saying pretty much what big guy is...
I really don't understand what's so hard about the idea that "I wish they'd make it the way that I and many others would like it best"... is that such a bizarre idea? I don't get why you seem to find it so strange that I'd actually wish that the game (and future ones) were done the way I'd like them most...
And I've said that its extremely unlikely! That's irrelevant, as big guy said! We're not talking about what WILL happen!
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 24th June 2003
The problem is that you didn't say it like big guy did! You said "It's not right for Zelda!". That's a big difference from "I don't like it...".
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 24th June 2003
I also said that its my opinion. Is that confusing to you?
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 24th June 2003
Actually you didn't. You never say that.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 24th June 2003
Quote:We've had this discussion before.
The creator decides how the series goes.
The creator doesn't decide how I think the series should go.
What the creator does isn't necessarially the best thing to do.
Simple enough?
I don't know about you but to me "i think" implies just a bit of opinion there... :chainsaw:
Mario 128 news... just a bit - OB1 - 24th June 2003
Every other time you've said that Zelda shouldn't be cartoony as if your opinion was objective fact.
Mario 128 news... just a bit - A Black Falcon - 24th June 2003
Well obviously when I say what I like I'm talking about my opinions... its not like I'd say what you like or anything, so I don't understand your complaint...
Mario 128 news... just a bit - Great Rumbler - 24th June 2003
See?! This is the exact reason why I didn't want this arguement to get started up again! It's not going to go anywhere! I didn't the first time! It's not going anywhere now! It doesn't look like it plans on moving!