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+--- Thread: Videogame "Fat Tax" (/showthread.php?tid=773)
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Weltall - 18th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Fittisize
Come on, Undertow, Adam Smith wrote it himself.
(not an exact quote)'The people will act in their best self interest' If they are interested in having money, why live in the US?
And GR, poor people won't be spending as much money on videogames and fast food...rich people will continue to do so. They'll be losing money by doing that, thus closing the gap a bit more!
It's such a minor change, though...you need more taxes like that.
You are so incredibly naive it's pathetic. I hope a few years passing will bring some real-world wisdom to you.
Hell, the very reason some people are poor is because they mis-manage their money and spend too much on crap like games and cars when they can barely afford to feed themselves or their children.
And the last thing we need are more taxes. As was mentioned before, the Revolution that gave birth to this country occured because of harsh and needless taxation, and to then allow ourselves to give most of our earnings as taxes would fly in the face of that. We need less taxes and less government involvement. We need more people to become willing to support themselves and stop relying on handouts.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 18th June 2003
Oh that's right Weltall, middle-class people should be punished by not getting any healthcare because they don't make enough money. Such righteousness! My family isn't poor enough to get free healthcare but also not rich enough to pay for it. My dad does have medical insurance since he's a WW2 vet, but the VA medical system is half-assed.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 18th June 2003
First, poor people buy lots of fast food. It is really cheap. Our society is the first in history where the POOR are fat and the RICH thin. Always before, the rich were fat and the poor thin because of how poor people couldn't get as much rich foods... now, the poor are fat because the cheapest foods are the worst for you. And foods good for you are expensive. That is a huge change in society...
Next... taxes. No one likes taxes. But almost everyone can (or should be able to) see the benefits of them. I just can't see how Republicans can legitimately say "we don't want to support the schools, the poor, the middle class, the working people, etc. We just want to do things that help rich people" and be successful at it... it just makes no sense to me... and I also don't understand how you pass off so many great and very useful programs as "government waste". Again, it just puzzles me how people take those statements of how Republicans want poor people to be poor forever and die young and the middle class to be stuck in a mediocre situation for all time and say "that's a great idea!"...
Health Care. Weltall, you claim that we have better heath care than Canada. That is false, by a factual basis. We do NOT. In fact our healthcare system is pretty low by world rankings. Why? BECAUSE 40 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NONE! And with no health care you get essentially no service. So while for the people with top health plans its the best in the world, and for people with mid-range plans (like most people) its okay but not really that great (because of HMOs largely...), for the poor... its awful. Truly terrible. And because of that our healthcare system is fatally flawed until we fix that problem. Its just common sense that a healthy society will be more productive! Isn't that reasonable?
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Great Rumbler - 18th June 2003
I'm not mad at the government for not giving free or reduced medical care to my family, I'm mad at the insurance companies who make huge amounts of money and the people who get huge settlements in court over little things that drive up the cost of insurance.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Fittisize - 18th June 2003
Quote:Hell, the very reason some people are poor is because they mis-manage their money and spend too much on crap like games and cars when they can barely afford to feed themselves or their children.
And you still fail to realize that these videogame and fat taxes will help regulate your economy! And maybe the rich people will stop putting lots of their money into these things too... Jesus, it's a small step to equality, but a step none the less.
The way you come off, Weltall, is a greedy money-grabber who wouldn't give some spare change to a homeless person dying on the street.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 18th June 2003
Given on what I've heard Weltall say, I would also be quite surprised if he did that.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 18th June 2003
Amen to that.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 18th June 2003
Its also bizarre that in a post that reaffirms how heartless Weltall is he acts surprised that we take him to be heartless...
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 18th June 2003
And he calls himself a religious person.
Remember that part in the Bible when God says "Thou shalt not help out those damn dirty poor people"?
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 18th June 2003
Yeah, and isn't the New Testament full of quotes from Jesus like "thou shalt take from the poor", "the rich shall inherit the earth" and "only the rich people are relevant in my teachings, and all those statements like 'poor people deserve more' and 'the poor are the only people who truly know morality' and "no rich man will ever to to heaven' I actually meant the lower end of the top 1%, not those dirty unwashed lazy bum peasants"?
Right? Because that's sure how Weltall reads it!
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 18th June 2003
He probably has some sort of Republican Revisionist Bible.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 18th June 2003
No book with commandements like that would be allowed in any organized religion on THIS planet, though...
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Weltall - 18th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Great Rumbler
I'm not mad at the government for not giving free or reduced medical care to my family, I'm mad at the insurance companies who make huge amounts of money and the people who get huge settlements in court over little things that drive up the cost of insurance.
And there you have why 40 million people have no healthcare.
Quote:First, poor people buy lots of fast food. It is really cheap. Our society is the first in history where the POOR are fat and the RICH thin. Always before, the rich were fat and the poor thin because of how poor people couldn't get as much rich foods... now, the poor are fat because the cheapest foods are the worst for you. And foods good for you are expensive. That is a huge change in society...
Bullshit. Fast food is cheap, sure. So are fruits and vegetables. Skim Milk costs as much as whole milk. Water is cheaper than sugary sodas. Lean foods cost little more than their fatty counterparts. Eating out is almost ALWAYS more expensive than cooking your own meals.
Why do people eat fast food more than healthy food? Convenience. People are too lazy to cook.
Quote:Next... taxes. No one likes taxes. But almost everyone can (or should be able to) see the benefits of them. I just can't see how Republicans can legitimately say "we don't want to support the schools, the poor, the middle class, the working people, etc. We just want to do things that help rich people" and be successful at it... it just makes no sense to me... and I also don't understand how you pass off so many great and very useful programs as "government waste". Again, it just puzzles me how people take those statements of how Republicans want poor people to be poor forever and die young and the middle class to be stuck in a mediocre situation for all time and say "that's a great idea!"...
I want poor people to be poor forever? That's ridiculous! I want poor people to work, and educate themselves! I want everyone to strive to be rich! It's people like YOU who want the poor to stay poor by giving them a free ride! Again, and it's been proven ever since government assistance began in America, people who live off of the government have no incentive to work or educate themselves. Why waste time working when you get money for NOT WORKING? Thus, welfare recipients are poor and will stay poor until they die, because they'll never want to make a better life for themselves, and that's what liberals love because when liberals give the poor handouts, the poor vote liberal. And the middle-class? How can they ever better themselves when they're being increasingly taxed to death? What incentive is there to try to become rich when, in a socialist mindframe, most of it would be taken away from you?
No sir, it's the liberals who are responsible for the poverty problem in America, and all you people want to do is make it worse with your ridiculous ideas.
Quote:Health Care. Weltall, you claim that we have better heath care than Canada. That is false, by a factual basis. We do NOT. In fact our healthcare system is pretty low by world rankings. Why? BECAUSE 40 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NONE! And with no health care you get essentially no service. So while for the people with top health plans its the best in the world, and for people with mid-range plans (like most people) its okay but not really that great (because of HMOs largely...), for the poor... its awful. Truly terrible. And because of that our healthcare system is fatally flawed until we fix that problem. Its just common sense that a healthy society will be more productive! Isn't that reasonable?
40 million without, 240 million with. I can't call that fatally flawed. Hell, I could afford insurance to cover a $50,000 gastrointestinal surgery, and I work at fucking Wal-Mart for Christ's sake.
But that wasn't my point. My point is the service given in America is far superior to Canada's. Do you think for a moment that when I had a doctor going inside my stomach that I would want a doctor who was barely making more money than I am, and who only reached his position because everyone more skilled than he is at gastrointestinal surgery moved to America because of the better pay? I got a doctor, John Kellum, who makes a ton of money because he's one of the best there is in the field. I had absolutely no compunction at all paying medical insurance premiums in order to get someone skilled poking around inside of me.
And again, the reason why Health insurance is so out of reach for some people is the liberalization of healthcare which allows for more insurance claims, harsher malpractice insurance costs, and worst of all, completely and unconditionally free healthcare for uninsured people, especially illegal immigrants, which is frequently abused as it is. And don't tell me it doesn't exist, it most certainly does. Doctors cannot turn an injured person away, no matter how tame the injury is. Our healthcare, while still superior in quality to practically every other nation in the world, is in the mess it's in because of liberalization and attempts to slowly socialize medicine. As you can see, it's been a massive failure so far, so to socialize it even more would only compound the problem.
We don't NEED free healthcare, we need deregulated, de-liberalized healthcare! We need the private sector more than ever now!
Quote:Oh that's right Weltall, middle-class people should be punished by not getting any healthcare because they don't make enough money. Such righteousness!
Keep in mind the reason for that is because the poor often abuse the healthcare system, the hospitals spend thousands of dollars on people who can't pay them, so they pass the buck to insurance companies, who pass the buck onto you. Keep that in mind the next time you go to the doctor and you see a poor person there because they have the sniffles or 'depression'. Keep in mind that because they get treatment for free, you have to pay more for your own treatment because you're paying for their sniffles.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Weltall - 18th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Right? Because that's sure how Weltall reads it!
No, I read it "God helps those who help themselves."
I don't however remember Jesus saying "Work not, since others can afford to support you".
It's okay though. That you're attacking my religious beliefs in lieu of an intelligent response only proves how ridiculous your stance is. :)
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 18th June 2003
Quote:I don't however remember Jesus saying "Work not, since others can afford to support you".
If you manage to read the New Testament and take that out of it, you've got to be the best spin doctor who ever lived.
Attacking your religous beliefs? Sorry, but we're not. We're just showing how that if you actually believe in the beliefs that your very own book -- the Bible -- and more specifically the teachings of Jesus and the Old Testament commandments, etc -- you wouldn't exactly have those beliefs. And since you do and say that that's your religion, I'd say you are quite hypocritical.
Oh, and it is really pathetic how your whole argument is based on how poor people are lazy and stupid. That is a Radical Right myth, which has been debunked more times than I can care to think, and ignored by your side just as many times.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 18th June 2003
Well according to Weltall there are only two kinds of people: the poor and lazy kind, and the rich and hard-working kind.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Weltall - 18th June 2003
Ah yes, my error, the ghettoes and trailer parks of America are filled with starving geniuses.
You're only as poor as you allow yourself to be. If you have ambition, you can make something of yourself. My uncle was the son of poor immigrants, went to law school, started a practice and is now a millionaire. He serves as an inspiration to me, which is why I endeavor to follow in his footsteps. If he were lazy, he would languish in poverty, but instead he's a hard-working man and sharp as a tack, thus, he posesses wealth.
Even the poor can get student loans and grants.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Weltall - 18th June 2003
And since you're trying to twist the word of God to your own devices, I should remind you that in the passages you quoted Jesus spoke of charity from the rich, and many rich people participate or donate to charities, and He also believed that the poor should work hard. I don't think Jesus ever considered the idea that the rich should completely provide for the poor by way of extra taxes confiscated by governments. Also, in Jesus' time, the poor had no way of rising to a higher station, and that's certainly not true today.
Therefore, you're only vindicating me more. Keep it up :)
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Darunia - 18th June 2003
Let's leave religion out of this, since we all know that there is no god. :D
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Great Rumbler - 19th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
since we all know that there is no god. :D
Ha ha ha...No.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
Quote:Well according to Weltall there are only two kinds of people: the poor and lazy kind, and the rich and hard-working kind.
Yes, he does believe that. Its bizarre...
LOTS OF POOR PEOPLE WORK REALLY HARD. They try their best to go up the ladder. But its stacked so badly against them that they really have no chance... a few make it, but they are the extreme minority. There are all kinds of reasons that they can't move up... less access to higher education (poor people might not be able to get loans they could pay back and scholarships are rare.... and even if they had that often they can't because they have to work so the family can make enough money to survive...), less to no access to health care (pre-emergency room), less access to decent jobs, no opportunities... the list goes on and on. And the result? Sure, a few people get out. But not many. And most of the rest try hard to make it... they just can't because of how society is structured. And the least the rest of us can do is help them as much as we can... government programs being a vital and central part of that.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Dark Jaguar - 19th June 2003
In all of this, I'll only take a stand on one thing.
Skim milk is actually CHEAPER than whole milk. I know, I compaired prices at a few stores, and, same brand, but the less fat, the cheaper it is. Essentially, they are charging me for the extra fat that makes it taste good (and in my case, is good for me), as opposed to charging more for what would likely be bought more by people on a dieting craze, skim milk.
Here's the deal, dieting almost never works. The human body is simply not designed to loose weight in that fassion. When one diets, at least in any effective way, the body "thinks" it is starving to death, and acts accordingly, holding on to fat. Fat itself actually weighs very little. People in the first week or so of a diet loose a lot of weight, but not size oddly enough :D, because during that time, they are actually loosing water, well suger water, through the usual process :D. Water weighs a lot more than fat (that's why it floats), so when you actually start loosing the fat, you notice little actual weight loss (though at this point, if one bothered to check size as opposed to just the scale, they would likely not give up then because they actually are getting smaller in a very painful way). The body CAN loose weight this way, but it will be a slow and torturous process that isn't very good for the body in the long run. Now then, exercise, THAT'S the way the human body was intended to loose weight, as our history as a species shows. We were meant to chase around our meals or toil in the dirt or struggle picking it from tall trees before we could eat it. We could eat very fattening stuff all the time, because we NEEDED it for the exercise the next day that would burn it all away. Unlike dieting, which will actually make one's body weaker in the long run, exercise will actually increase strength and ability in the long run. Also unlike dieting, which while, somewhat, easy at first, is murder at a certain point onwards, exercise is murder at first, but after building muscle mass and more mitochondria, it becomes easy to burn just as much energy if you keep the same pace as before, OR you could burn even more with what feels like the same amount of effort and pain (but what will actually be far more than what you were doing at first) by pumping it up a notch. Excercise, from a scientific point of view, is the healthier way to loose weight, at least according to everything I've read in various sciency books on the human body and seen on various shows on Discovery. Of course, the key is to not just quit because then the muscles go back as they were. Also, just getting some thing off TV to exercise is useless. The key is motivation, and that comes from within. No one needs to even BUY anything to exercise. They could just jog around their living room every day. That's FREE, so no matter HOW poor someone is they have no excuse.
Of course, Weltall did it the sucker's, er, hard way :D. From what I understand, it took like a year for him to go from Silent Bob to a bisho. While not as healthy, he did the one thing needed either way, he got motivated.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
I like skim milk best... whole milk is just too rich tasting. I don't like the taste of it... same with some kinds of full-fat icecream. Too rich tasting, really...
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Weltall - 19th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
I like skim milk best... whole milk is just too rich tasting. I don't like the taste of it... same with some kinds of full-fat icecream. Too rich tasting, really...
Yeah, this whole experience of mine has done that to me too, a lot of the things I used to eat so much of I can't even stand now, even some that I am capable of eating. For instance, you'll never get a fast-food burger within ten feet of my mouth.
I do cheat once in a while and do Chick-Fil-A though, they're a bit healthier and a LOT tastier :)
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
I never did like whole milk... when I was younger we usually had 2%, then over the years it dropped... until now, when I even find 2% too rich. 1% is okay, but I like skim best... same with icecreams. Its not like I'm (or was) fat... its just what I like. Of course it is healthier for me, too... especially when like I do I eat a bowl of icecream every day. :)
Oh, and I don't like beef much, so in the very rare occasions that I go to a fast food place, I get the chicken burger. Sometimes fried, sometimes not... but the chicken.
Oh, and did you know I've never eaten a hot dog?
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Weltall - 19th June 2003
You've never eaten a hot dog? Not even one of those Hebrew National ones?
Oh man, if I thought you were un-American before, now I know it for a fact! :love:
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Great Rumbler - 19th June 2003
Hot dogs are awesome, ABF! You have no idea what you're missing! I usually put a lot of stuff on my hot dogs, but I had a hot dog from a street vendor in NYC and it was just a hot dog on a bun, but is was still really good.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 19th June 2003
I can understand if you don't like hotdogs, but you've never even tried one before??! Where on earth do you live?!
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Weltall - 19th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
I can understand if you don't like hotdogs, but you've never even tried one before??! Where on earth do you live?!
Does he even live on Earth!?
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Sacred Jellybean - 19th June 2003
Maybe he lives inside subterranean Earth, like some kind of mole person with access to the internet...
...but I bet even Bilbo Baggins has eaten a hot dog!
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 19th June 2003
I think he lives in New England or something. But he did tell me that he rarely ever goes outside, go perhaps that's the problem.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
Its in my location tag, geniouses.
Just thinking of what they put in hotdogs is more than enough to make me never want to eat one of those things. Its disgusting... I have eaten sausage a few times, but not many. And not anymore. :)
Oh, and also, I live in Maine. And have never eaten a lobster. :D
They are just too gross looking to eat...
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 19th June 2003
Whaaaa???!!!! You're not human!! Lobsters are incredibly delicious, especially the ones from Maine!
You don't deserve to live there. :hammer:
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Weltall - 19th June 2003
Seriously. I hate you even more now! When I was fourteen my mother made our whole family go to your miserable fucking state just to have genuine fresh Maine lobster, it was a whole week and a half wasted for the best damn lobster I ever had in my life!
Lobster is the only good thing about Maine!
If hotdog ingredients are what keep you from eating hotdogs, I once again recommend Hebrew National dogs, they're made according to strict Kosher standard so they say. I dunno if they're right or not but they are incredibly delicious. They are one of the few decadent foods I still allow myself to enjoy once in awhile.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 19th June 2003
I think there should be a law for people like ABF. It's a crime, I tell ya!
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
I just don't like seafood much... about the only seafood I eat is some fish (salmon, mostly. Fishsticks are okay with enough ketchup, though.) and shrimp once in a long while...
And lobster is a big shellfish. I don't like most shellfish...
So when I've been to restaurants with lobster I usually have chicken.
Yes, I eat a lot of chicken... but I like it, so its not a problem. :)
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 19th June 2003
:chainsaw:
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 19th June 2003
How nice of you...
:loopy:
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Dark Jaguar - 20th June 2003
How anyone could like that semi-transparent cloudy watery stuff they call "skim milk" is beyond me. Then again, I sometimes drink straight cream. If 2% is too rich for you, then I guess you shall be deprived of the amazing Vanilla Milk, or as I call it "Essence of Heaven Concentrate". Really, your tongue hasn't tasted ANYTHING unless you subject it to the gauntlet of amazing flavor that is, vanilla milk. It's basically like melted ice cream mixed with milk and poored into a bottle, but somehow they have the creamy consistency and ratio just right to make it so good it's like God is smiling at you.
So, you consider hotdogs disgusting due to the ingredients eh?
Hmm...
Scottish Persona: So you think you know sushi?! You think you know a good bit o' seafood? Well you don't know sushi at all, not a wee bloody bit! You sit in your fancy restaurant and have your little "california roll" and think you're the sheep's wool, well you're not, you're notin', you're sushi jr's and ya make me sick! Here at McCloud's Sushi we make our sushi the good old fasioned Scottish way. That's right, from Haggis, real minced haggis, dripping in the innards we tore the sheep's stomach from for flavor! So come on down and enjoy our amazing Haggis Sushi, because you're eatin' McCloud's sushi from now on, or you won't be eatin' at all!
Videogame "Fat Tax" - A Black Falcon - 20th June 2003
Ooh, that sounds delicious!
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 20th June 2003
I love all kinds of food. I'm always up to try new things, although I have to admit that I have yet to eat a Rocky Mountain Oyster. What about you, LL?
Oh and I drink 2% milk. Whole milk is too rich and skim is basically just water.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Smoke - 20th June 2003
*Randomly walks into thread*
Never had lobster. I'd like to try it though. A few weeks back I had something called "Scallops" with my meal though. Don't know what the hell they were and that's probably a good thing.
*Walks out*
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 20th June 2003
I don't care for scallops too much. Lobster is great though. And it's much cleaner than chicken, so I have no idea why Mr. Stupid-Face here (ABF) won't try it.
ABF: "Gah, well, it's because they look gross!"
Me: It's called a shell, stupid. There's nothing gross about it. See those chickens you eat? Those are definitely not clean when you rip 'em apart. When you break a cooked lobster leg it's very clean, and the tender meat practically just slides right out. It's the cleanest animal you can eat.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Great Rumbler - 20th June 2003
I've never had a lobster, but I live in Oklahoma not Maine where lobster is more abundant. I'll eat one someday, though!
Videogame "Fat Tax" - big guy - 20th June 2003
lobster's great...but it is a big bug that lives in the ocean, so i can see being put off. it's like eating an underwater cockroach kinda.
also, if you're from scotland, chances are your name starts with Mac, not Mc, Mc is irish, so it'd be MacCloud's, or even more likely, MacLeod.
haggis seems gross to me, it's the heart, lungs, and other innards, mixed with grain and spices then braised inside the stomach...i just wonder who thought it was a good idea.
2% milk is my favorite, skim doesn't taste enough like milk to be good, and not enough like water to be drinkable. it's this horrible in between that is most unpleasant. then again i was raised on 2%.
i think i like crab more than lobster, but crawfish are my favorite.
scallops are great, they're a shellfish, like a clam, but i don't know why they're a solid disk of meat, instead of a compartmented blob like a mussle or oyster.
and finally, lobsters aren't shellfish, they're a crustacean. shellfish are clams, mussles and the like.
rocky mountain oysters are just sick.
hotdogs are what i lived on my first year of college. i like the ones made from mechanically seperated chicken and pork. oooh baby, i don't care whats in them because it's ground to a consistancy that's so fine you can't tell one part from another.
i think that covers everything i wanted to talk about.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 20th June 2003
An underwater cockroach?? That's insane. Lobsters are very clean, and when you crack them open you're treated to nice clean, white meat.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - big guy - 20th June 2003
i meant just in the sense that they're a segmented, exoskeletened, compound eyed, organism.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - OB1 - 20th June 2003
Lobsters aren't dirty and disgusting, and they certainly don't squirt out gross slime when you crush them.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - Great Rumbler - 20th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
Lobsters aren't dirty and disgusting, and they certainly don't squirt out gross slime when you crush them.
But it'd be cool if they did...well as long as it happened to someone else, anyway.
Videogame "Fat Tax" - alien space marine - 20th June 2003
its just a way for the goverment to make money, thats all its about.If you have to pay tax for eating and watching tv and playing a video game you should also pay taxes to read about this absurdity becuase you are infact sitting around in a chair doing nothing but read about how your goverment is fucking up your life.
Why doesnt he just propose offering a recreational centre or how about free admission to your local gym which somtimes can cost 200 dollars a month.
nooooo! they are greedy commies after all looking for a quick buck.