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+--- Thread: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch (/showthread.php?tid=7308)
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 11th November 2023
The best answer is to give the homeless homes. Literally give them housing. Landlords were a mistake in the first place, and there are SO MANY completely empty homes right now.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 19th November 2023
Anyway, there's a lot of left leaning outlets I view that are giving Biden a lot of hell over how this Israel thing is being handled, and to be clear, I have my concerns as well, but near as I can tell, behind the scenes, Biden IS pushing for a ceasefire... by another name but that's what it is.
It seems clear that unilateral support for Israel in the US is becoming far less popular than it used to be. My biggest complaint right now is that Biden needs to make his public message match what his diplomats are trying to accomplish.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 6th December 2023
I've got to give Biden and his administration a lot of credit for putting a lot more pressure on Israel as of late and not just giving them a free pass. Of course, I'd like much further steps as a leftist and all, but I understand that international politics is a very complex situation and it isn't so easy to just make the moral call. I appreciate how this may very well become the new status quo, and hope this leads to better treatment of Palestinians and ending rhetoric making them identical to Hamas, as well as not just giving Israel's government free reign to do whatever they feel like in retaliation.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - A Black Falcon - 11th December 2023
I support Israel as I always have (but not Netanyahu, he's horrible, anti-democratic, and very badly needs to lose power immediately...) , but I don't understand the "there must be a ceasefire" people because Hamas are terrorists who oppose the concept of a ceasefire. Who would Israel be having a ceasefire with? It's pretty obvious that Hamas are never to be trusted. This war started because of their surprise attack on Israeli civilians, after all. "Let's have a cease fire so we can let Hamas rebuild and do something like this again"? That makes no sense.
Obviously war is horrible, but unfortunately Hamas decided that Israel was too close to normalizing relations with Arabic nations (progress on this front was moving forward), so it decided to blow up that situation and try to start a major war between the Arabs and Israel because their goal is the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the Jews... and how can that happen if there's peace between Israel and the Arab nations? It can't.
And so, Hamas started a war with their murder-focused attack. Hamas hide among civilians, and Israel attacks them there. Hamas doesn't care that Palestinian civilians are suffering, they want this because it makes Israel look bad. Fortunately so far Biden has managed to keep the war from spreading. Biden has done an amazing job of managing this crisis, I don't think he could have done any better.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 12th December 2023
You DO realize that Hamas are NOT the citizens, and that most of these attacks have indiscriminately targeted Palestinian civilians? They also are incapable of dislodging and kicking out Hamas themselves. Israel are the one with the power, Netanyahu is directly FUNDING Hamas for reasons of having an eternal enemy to fight so he can look strong, and thus.. there are better ways. Ways that don't involve indiscriminate bombing.
...Like sending in elite special forces to directly target specific heads of Hamas, "disappearing" them, and thus reallingning the organization by only leaving survivors more in line with peaceful talks... just saying... You want frightening death? I can be terrifying... but only to select targets.
Their current methods are absolutely GUARANTEED to fail. It's a recipe for STRENGTHENING Hamas, by ensuring a steady supply of volunteers out for revenge. That's how this works ABF. The US wrote the book on it, a literal book describing exactly the worst steps to take to handle this.
Remember Bush Jr? Remember how we handled 9/11, and how it took over 20 years to finally recognize our method of handling it was an abject failure? That reinforces the book, which was written based on previous US failures. You are literally advocating the solution the US tried and failed with after 9/11.
In any case, here's what you do once Hamas are, to put it lightly, "realigned" via secret operations.... you then... erase the border. Let the citizens have free entry and exit from all of Israel, make them equals. Join the nations together. The average Palestinian person will be happy to just get treated as an equal citizen at that point. But, here's the critical thing. The argument near as I can tell is that if someone kills my baby, I earn the right to kill one of their babies, or maybe ten. The exact conversion rate isn't yet established.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 14th December 2023
Unfortunately, it looks like Israel's, and the US's plan, aren't going to work...
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - A Black Falcon - 14th December 2023
The US's plan is what it has been for decades, the two state solution. The two state solution is still the only path to peace, despite the fact thatf progress towards it has been going backwards for the better part of two decades now. The problem is that neither Israel nor the Palestinians support the two state solution currently; instead, both seem to think that they can control the whole thing themselves, or something. Considering their strong military I can see why some in Israel think this, though it's wrong in part because there's nowhere else for the Palestinians to go since the other neighboring states do not want them, but I honestly have no idea why the Palestinians think the same... but they do.
In order for peace to move forward, new, less far right wing leadership in Israel is certainly necessary. Netanyahu has very bad approval numbers so his time in power is fortunately numbered, but he and his far-right allies are still in power right now. I don't know if they actually have a plan, they are opposed to the two state solution but certainly don't have a usable alternative. With less horrible leadership in Israel perhaps we could slowly move towards better things in that region...
However, you need two parties to make peace, and Hamas is significantly less interested in peace than Israel is. After all, Hamas started this war because they were scared of how close Israel was to peace with Saudi Arabia and such, and they are opposed to peace. Hamas also doesn't care one bit about reducing Palestinian civilian casualties. If there was a ceasefire, Hamas would break it the moment that they rearmed. And what's happening right now in polling? As that video shows, Hamas's approval numbers in the West Bank have increased because of this war. If Israel's government was less extreme perhaps the Palestinians could be pushed to support peace too, but that requires keeping Hamas out of influence. The PLO is not a great partner either, but Hamas cannot be one.
On a related note, Netanyahu's government supported payments to Hamas in Gaza with the theory that building up Gaza's infrastructure and opening jobs in Israel to people who live in Gaza would help normalize them. That effort failed when Hamas started this war, because they are dedicated to their genocidal terrorist aims, not to good governance of the people of Gaza. This is a big part of why Netanyahu has such horrible approval ratings, a lot of the current situation is because of his decisions. And can he fix the situation? No, I don't think so. His governing coalition is far too extreme and opposed to peace for that to happen. So we return to needing new leadership in Israel and getting rid of Hamas, if it is possible, or at least minimizing their influence, with the goal being as it long has been, a two state solution.
Quote: In any case, here's what you do once Hamas are, to put it lightly, "realigned" via secret operations.... you then... erase the border. Let the citizens have free entry and exit from all of Israel, make them equals. Join the nations together. The average Palestinian person will be happy to just get treated as an equal citizen at that point. But, here's the critical thing. The argument near as I can tell is that if someone kills my baby, I earn the right to kill one of their babies, or maybe ten. The exact conversion rate isn't yet established.I cannot possibly imagine a one-state solution ever working. They hate eachother far too much for that to ever function.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 4th January 2024
What Israel is doing is "speed running" every mistake the US made after 9/11. Every single one. This ZZ top costumer has been dead on accurate in his predictions thus far. The latest? That all the people they killed resulted in MORE than that number wanting to join Hamas. Short of total genocide, which I HOPE you don't support, that's what this current strategy has done. Hamas now has more people wanting to join. We have to think about this logically, in terms of what actions will net the results we're looking for. If the action doesn't get us that result, we shouldn't do it.
I get it, Hamas did something horrible. The result has been pure revenge, and that means sloppy mistakes. Just because someone does something horrible to you doesn't mean you should do something horrible right back. The US military learned this over the course of TWENTY YEARS of a massive mistake of a war that never should have happened. Nation building is simply a more effective tactic. There are times when you have no choice but to engage in war and bloodshed, but it's important to know the difference, and yes, that's hard right after a tragedy, but it's still important.
In any event, this red neck posted something else of interest. Another prediction MAY be coming to pass, a switch in strategy to what they SHOULD have done from the start, "realigning" the values of Hamas.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - A Black Falcon - 25th January 2024
Well, now that it is getting clearer to the American people that yes we ARE going to see Trump vs. Biden again, Biden's odds of winning are increasing. Trump is so erratic now, so angry, so fascistic, and the more people hear him the less anyone not in the Trump cult is going to want to vote for the guy. it's absolutely terrible that such a huge percentage of Americans have fallen into an anti-democratic cult, but at this rate thankfully the results will be similar to last time, Trump's defeat.
As for the Israel-Hamas war, Israel sure was way too overconfident before this war started, they've lost an embarrassingly large number of soldiers for facing a foe like Hamas... but it's not like Netanyahu is going to listen to anything we say, he hates Democrats. It's a real shame that he's still in power there. Israel deserves better...
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Weltall - 31st January 2024
When I told my Dad that his favorite president ever, Donald J. Trump, said, with his own words, that he intended to be a dictator (for a day), and that he had plans to root out leftists and undesirables, my dad did not think there was a single thing wrong with any of that, and that he would only go after people who deserve it. Just in case anyone ever wondered why I was right wing to begin with, the answer was I was raised to be by a 200% true believer who waited his entire long life for a Trump to come along and tell him everyone else is the reason he's unhappy with the entire world. My journey towards the other end of the political axis deeply offended him, and he will never forgive me for it.
But, I feel it necessary to reiterate, Trump didn't change anything about my dad. The cult was always out there, waiting for a shepherd to come along.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 3rd February 2024
Very true. Trump is a symptom, not the disease, and Trump came along DIRECTLY after Obama. The problem is right there at the top levels, lying to the masses and telling them that all the problems in their life are caused by people worse off than they are, so that they don't look up, where the problems actually are coming from.
Meanwhile, in the Gaza strip, Israel just hit a world record speedrun of "failed Middle-eastern invasion".
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - A Black Falcon - 10th February 2024
Even so, that so many Americans turned out to be easy marks for a fascist is really sad and disappointing. At this point we just need to hope that Trump keeps losing, as he did last time.
In other news, the press have yet again decided to go all-in against Biden because... he said one wrong word in a long detailed policy discussion about Israel/Palestine? And the partisan Republican, Hur, investigating his 'keeping classified documents' case claimed without evidence that Biden is mentally declining? ... well, that Merrick Garland decided to appoint a partisan Republican Trump administration judicial guy to investigate Biden is a pretty serious black mark against Garland, that is not balance, but otherwise the main takeaway should be that even the Hur report with all of its probably-lies about Biden's mental state couldn't manage to justify charges against him.
But the press? They once again are proving how much they hate Biden for his mostly stable, 'boring' governance. It's been absolutely terrible for their ratings, book sales, and the rest! And so, not caring about the damage they do to our democracy, they pile on against Biden based on mostly false statements while not talking anywhere near as much about Trump's constant stream of ludicrously horrendous statements. It's pretty disgusting.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Sacred Jellybean - 11th February 2024
The evidence for Biden's mental health declining is that he couldn't remember when he began/ended his tenure as VP and couldn't remember when his son died (within a few years, no less). Do you think Hur lied about this, or that there's missing context that would help explain why this occurred? He also recently mixed up the names of current European leaders with other leaders that are dead.
I'm voting for Biden again, but let's face it, he's way too old to be the leader of the free world. He needs to be at home, falling asleep to nature documentaries in a comfortable arm chair. I firmly believe he wants to be president, but I just can't help but feel sorry for him when watching him speak.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 14th February 2024
I'd say it's not the objective number of his age that's necessarily the issue, it's how well his mind has caught up. It'll catch up to all of us, but all of us shouldn't be the most powerful person in the entire world. If someone's old but has managed to say "sharp as a tack" as old people say, that's one thing. Heck, I won't even begrudge someone being at risk of dying in office, so long as I'm confident in their VP pick.
All that said, I'm over going after Biden's flubs. The legal report wasn't done by a doctor, but by an investigator. It's also entirely possible that Biden simply knew exactly what to say to make the case that he didn't mean to take the documents. That's after all the main point of the report. They couldn't find any evidence that ruled out Biden's excuse. Fair enough. Biden didn't retain the documents, he returned them the moment they were requested, while Trump had to be raided by the FBI to get them back. Secondly, Biden is currently president, while Trump was not at the time they asked for them back. Heck, Trump keeps trying to get them to give them back, because like a 4 year old, he doesn't really know WHY he wants them, he's just mad someone took something he thought was his.
Anyway, either of you see that new Dilly Dally Show with the return of the Green Lantern John Stewart?
A lot of people are taking his criticisms of Biden as him "both sidesing" the election, but that's not my read on it. Clearly his examples of Trump being a bad candidate were FAR worse than his examples of Biden being a bad candidate, and I don't think he considers them "equally bad", of course Trump is far worse, (and heck I've warmed up to the fact Biden is doing some good things, more than my low expectations for sure). But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize the current president, and ask the important question of whether or not maybe someone else may be more fit for the job than candidates who "broke records they set themselves" as far as age goes. Some people are trying to label this as Biden having "eighty years of experience", but I don't think his political experience goes back to his gradeschool days back when he was carting in scrap metal and making sure to turn off all the house lights at night to avoid being a target in an air raid. That seems a little disingenuous. It's not that they're the same, it's that we should perhaps have higher standards and recognize that the country doesn't just need to be put back the way it was before Trump, it needs an overhaul. Remember, the country the way it was before Trump, LED TO TRUMP. That's all we're saying.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Sacred Jellybean - 16th February 2024
Quote:The legal report wasn't done by a doctor, but by an investigator.
This is true. It's not as rigorous as being examined and evaluated by a professional. OTOH, it seems like a mistake to dismiss the report entirely. What if we feel inclined to do so because the information is inconvenient? Some of this just seems like common sense and not speculation.
No doubt that Bur, a Federalist Society goon, was politically motivated to bring this forward. But along the same lines, it feels self-serving to use this as a basis to dismiss the claim. I can't think of a good way to hand-wave away a person having trouble recalling when they were VP and when their son died. That the Oct 7th just happened and Biden was probably really stressed out feels weak. In the press conference he called to dispute the report, he seemed just as exhausted and meandering as ever. I didn't walk away from it feeling reassured about his abilities.
For the people criticizing John Stewart, it's the same dance that left-leaning people do in every election.
"We have to demand more from our candidates!"
"But we can't let the Republicans win, they're much worse!"
Both are true, and it's a balancing act. I think Stewart walked the line perfectly.
From my limited experience, there seems to be less in-fighting in this cycle. I've seen fewer people than expected who insist that Biden is a war criminal for letting Netenyahu steamroll Palestinians in Gaza. These are the ideologically pure types who refuse to acknowledge that Trump will be far worse. It's more important for their ego to adhere to the rigid ideals they set out for themselves. That has primacy over the actual outcome for the very people they profess to care about.
"Well at least *I* didn't vote for a war criminal! Call me crazy, but *I* don't like war criminals being president and refuse to take part! You can't blame me for what happens, and in fact, it's YOU to blame for voting for a war criminal!" This kind of talk will never not be infuriating to hear.
The most left-wing circles I've lurked in have written off Republicans entirely and dedicate all their talk to bitching about "shitlibs". It's no longer that "they aren't left enough". These days, everything they used to say about Republicans -- that they hate poor people, that they don't care about climate change, that they fight tooth-and-nail to pay lower taxes, that they're bigots -- they now say this about "liberals".
Quote:Some people are trying to label this as Biden having "eighty years of experience"
lol
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 16th February 2024
Well, you're not wrong. I think a lot of people are waking up to the simple truth that neoliberalism, a political philosophy otherwise called "Thatcherism", does tend to care more about keeping money flowing than the little guy. Neoliberalism, at it's core, says the current system is perfectly fine as it is, so long as we purge all the "bad actors" within that system. I don't agree with that personally, which is why I engage in pointing out the failings of various neolibs to meet those basic needs.
But all that said, I'll never vote red. For all the hypocrisy going on among the leadership in the democratic party, the republicans are nakedly embracing the absolute worst, wanting a fascist ruler in place of democracy. Sure I'll push for a replacement for Biden during the primaries... but if it's Biden, heck even if he literally went full on senile on the campaign trail was reduced to a drooling old man who can't even focus his eyes much less govern, I'd still vote for him over Trump... and then immediately after hope they actually remove him for being unfit for the office (25th amendment). But, actually keeping our democracy intact takes a higher priority, obviously and sadly enough.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - A Black Falcon - 16th February 2024
Seriously, the people claiming that Biden has dementia or what have you have absolutely no case. There is no evidence, only lies and pro-Trump bias. I'm not dismissing it because of Biden's party, but because it so obviously isn't true. I watched that press conference as well. I saw someone angry about the Republican hitjob lies that fill the Hur report and also angry about the fact that the press are extremely eager to repeat those attacks because they so badly want Trump to be President again because it'd be better for their ratings, and someone obviously quite knowledgeable about policy as you saw in the long, detailed answer at the end about Israel/Palestine. It is unfortunate that he messed up one word in that answer, but saying Sisi is President of Mexico instead of Egypt, or the news that he recently said Mitterand instead of Macron for President of France, are really minor. Biden is older, and he's made a few minor 'saying the wrong name' mistakes, but I see no reason to think that that's anything other than the kind of accidental saying the wrong thing error that anyone could make.
(Oh, and on the Sisi issue, apparently calling Sisi "the Mexican" is a common slang term used for him in Egypt to talk about their leader without using his name. It's entirely possible that Biden had heard about this before accidentally calling him President of Mexico. Egyptians on the internet were apparently quite amused by what he said.)
As for Jon Stewart, while he can be an amusing comic, he helped elect Bush in 2000 with his lies about Bush and Gore being the boring same thing, and no I haven't forgiven him for it... but why should I when he's obviously still peddling the same "both parties are the same" lies? Because they are not in any way the same, as we all know... at least "they're both old" is less obnoxious than those trashing Biden while ignoring Trump's worse signs of mental aging, but still, it's wrong (and ageist).
Quote:I can't think of a good way to hand-wave away a person having trouble recalling when they were VP and when their son died. That the Oct 7th just happened and Biden was probably really stressed out feels weak.This claim was probably the thing that Biden was angriest about in the press conference. He said that that absolutely never happened and that he'd never have confused that. Why should I believe a Trump supporter trying to attack Biden over Biden and other Democrats' word? I see zero reason to do that.
Of course, yes, he's older than he was four years ago, but he is someone who has always been prone to speaking errors. If he had dementia or some other serious age-related mental problem I'm sure that we would know. The signs would be obvious for anyone looking, as they were for Reagan. I just don't think that is the case here. And quite the opposite, I think that Biden's experience has greatly benefited the US; nobody else would have done more than maybe half as good a job at managing the current Middle East crisis as he has, and his experience is surely the primary reason for that.
Also, Biden's not going to run for anything else after this. So long as we get through this election with Trump defeated yet again, even if the worst happens as I do not think it will, things will be okay... though we don't have anyone else nearly as good at managing foreign policy as Biden is. He's not perfect and has made mistakes, everybody does, but he's better at it than anyone else we have.
So yeah, I am worried about Biden's age. I am worried because the press has proven that they will relentlessly go after him for this issue in order to tear down Biden and give Trump a better chance of winning because of how boring the Biden administration is to cover. But am I worried because of his age? Thanks to modern medicine, not really. He's showing no signs of significant mental decline and seems generally healthy. The Presidency significantly ages most people who hold that office due to how stressful it is, but for now at least he seems able to handle it.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 26th February 2024
Oh please, he's only comparing where the comparisons are apt. The man has never once claimed Biden and Trump are "the same". What he IS saying is that they are both, by any objective measure, very old, and it is up to them to prove they are capable. As he said, and as I've said before even he said it, it is NOT up to us to defend presidential candidates from criticism, it is up to the candidates to show that criticism isn't valid. We can and absolutely, unequivocally SHOULD question ANYONE who wants to be President of the most powerful military on Earth. That should not be "team sports". And yes, this is ALSO a question we should put to Bernie, though notably he's not running in the primary this time around. I have also noticed no one has ever used the same arguments to defend other candidates in the primary. No one is saying "hey, x might end up going against Trump, so go easy on them because any criticism from our side might hurt them in the election", no, only Hillary and Joe got those considerations. It's hypocrisy.
In any case, we're getting self immolation protests. These are protests of last resort, historically, and they generally are very effective because of the attention the act grabs.
A brave man, braver than I.
So anyway, there's legitimate criticisms of Jon Stewart to be had, but him criticising both democrats and republicans is not "both sidsing" at all. Democrats can and absolutely morally MUST be criticised.
And speaking of...
This is genocide, and those supporting it are supporting genocide. Again, I have to ask, just how many lives did Hamas' attack "buy" for Israel? How many before any further deaths become morally wrong? Is there a line? Is complete eradication of all of the Gaza strip justified as a response for a few lives? I have news for you, that is literally what Benjamin Netanyahu is attempting to do here.
But, if you just don't want to bother with some weird old comedian (who isn't running for President anyway), then may I suggest this humble desk skull? You've probably seen his video essays around, they're very well researched and you'd likely agree with most of them.
But you'll likely disagree with this, and you really need to ask yourself why. I suspect that deep down, it's because the "blue side" said you should be against it, but please, open yourself up to the possibility that the democratic party can be wrong on some issues. Here's a hint. Right now, the democratic party's official position is the same position as the far right republicans. Why is that? Is it possible what is now a pro-fascist party are taking the correct moral position by sheer chance, or maybe there's something else going on?
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 29th February 2024
Alright this is going to be a long one, but...
Yeah, all of that.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Sacred Jellybean - 2nd March 2024
Thank you for introducing me to that guy. He's like Jon Stewart, but funny. Stewart is great for having paved the way for these kinds of shows, but I always found his jokes tedious (same with John Oliver).
Not that it's the point of those videos! Cody also seems to deliver more sources and a higher velocity of talking points.
Not much else to say about the video. I usually agree with his takes, and this is no exception.
RE: A Right Wing Cannot Flap Alone, or, Donald Trump Screwed the Putsch - Dark Jaguar - 4th March 2024
You're very welcome! Now here's some potentially bad news:
Yeah this was a long shot, but my takeaway is that the supreme court opted not to rule on whether or not it was insurrection or whether or not it applied to Trump goading them, and side stepped that entirely in favor of simply ruling states don't have that particular authority. Since it falls entirely on congress... well it's not going to happen. It's congress after all.
Well, all that's left is to vote against the fascist.