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+--- Thread: Reflections on the Decline of the West by Darunia S. Goron (/showthread.php?tid=7306)
Reflections on the Decline of the West by Darunia S. Goron - Darunia - 8th January 2021
Brothers! Reflect with me upon the decline of the West.
I make the following observations as an objective observer of the current state of the United States in the world, without trying to project favor towards the right or the left. I never voted for Trump, and feel he should be impeached. However, I am quite unenthused about the other party.
I feel that...
1. Democracy only does well in largely homogeneous societies, where there is a unifying spirit amongst the people who comprise it. In an increasingly diverse and opinionated society, in the age of the internet, American democracy is unraveling and becoming a chaotic relic of the past. Democracy is by design a way for the people of a society to control their own destiny. It evolved out of homogeneous societies, and thrived in such societies. In a country consisting of two or more diverse, opposed societies, they will always either a. be in conflict, b. come into where one dominates the other and the other is submissive or destroyed, c. destroy one another mutually, or d. split into separate and sovereign self-governing bodies. Examples include the US Civil War (two societies vying for control of the US), the French Revolution (two societies vying for control of France), Russia, England, Spain, and so on and so forth. In every such example, the clash of societies. To reiterate, two separate societies which have coalesced their own unique sense of identity cannot peacefully co-exist for long in a single greater society.
2. The United States is devolving into two separate societies, which are clashing for control of the future of the country. There are two different, opposed camps vying for control of the legacy and banner of United States in a zero sum game. These are:
Society A: The far right, consisting of the core of the old American White society, which established and then dominated the United States as a nation from 1776 to January 2021. It has been a White English-speaking Christian society. It tends to be religions, uneducated and militaristic. It tends to extol more traditional masculine values. This is why the GOP really is the party of “old white men,” because it is them defending this retreating society. This old society was in many ways represented by the spirited, brash actions we saw unfurl at the Capitol on 1/6/21. These are, in many cases, White people who want the world they remember as kids; the same world that their grandparents knew. There is nothing innately wrong about this, they are simply acting in their perceived best interest, as do all societies.
Society B: The left society consists of most American ethnic minorities united against the power of the old White society, although there are certainly a sizeable number of sympathizing Whites, especially women. This society is trying to realize a much more diverse society—this naturally detracts from the power of the hitherto primary White society. This is the source of the conflict we see in 2021. This left-leaning society is represented by the Democratic party, which will be dominate for the foreseeable future after the insurrection of 2021.
3. Trump’s presidency has been the swan song of the old White society, or Society A, which is now no longer the undisputed possessor of government. Society B is now dominant, and shall remain so as the old White society continues to decline in population percentage, representation in congress and societal prestige. It will in time become a minority.
4. American influence and prestige may never again fully recover or be what it was in the 20[sup]th[/sup] century.
5. Society A and Society B will probably come into further conflict in the future, as they clash for control of the government, until they divorce nationally, or one dominates and suppresses the other.
6. The West in general is highly decadent, and is not on a sustainable footpath. Western society no longer appreciates masculinity, but rather is trying to re-imagine it in a less masculine way.
7. The more homogeneous a society is, the more stable it tends to be, because one body of people with a clear and obvious commonality between them (i.e. predominantly race, or religion) will naturally seek a herd mentality and a strong identity and sense of association with their 'herd'. It is a base human instinct to herd with similar people. All societies are created out of this instinct.
8. The US government is bloated and inefficient.
9. The US federal deficit will catch up to us in the 21[sup]st[/sup] century.
10. Human society as we know it itself will not endure more than a few more centuries.
11. We may well see secession efforts in the years and decades again.
12. The Democratic and Republican parties used to both be internal political organs within Society A in the 20th century. In 2021, they each represent a separate society, trapped together in an unraveling democracy.
13. The Democratic left truly is heading towards socialism. Depending on your perspective, you might say that this is a natural and good evolution for our country. Another perspective is that this is just what happens when democracies become too free and decadent and and destroy themselves. Socialist societies, in turn, tend to curb freedoms in order to survive.
RE: Reflections on the Decline of the West by Darunia S. Goron - alien space marine - 9th January 2021
Quote:
your're always welcome to join canada, mon amie
RE: Reflections on the Decline of the West by Darunia S. Goron - Darunia - 9th January 2021
J'y ai deja reflechi. J'ai grande envie d'y aller, tandis que la frontiere soit ouverte.
RE: Reflections on the Decline of the West by Darunia S. Goron - Dark Jaguar - 11th January 2021
The fallacy I'd say you're committing here is thinking that equality is a zero sum game, that raising up the disenfranchised necessarily means dragging down the privilaged. That isn't so.
RE: Reflections on the Decline of the West by Darunia S. Goron - Weltall - 11th January 2021
Quote:1. Democracy only does well in largely homogeneous societies, where there is a unifying spirit amongst the people who comprise it.
We have the world's oldest democracy, as imperfect as it is. It's hard to point to a single example elsewhere in the world which has more success at it than we do.
Quote:2. The United States is devolving into two separate societies, which are clashing for control of the future of the country.
I think this separation has existed from day one. The United States Constitution was a compromise between two very different ideas of how to create and operate a republican government, and unfortunately, one of those sides has always sought to dominate the whole. The side which stormed the Capitol was the same side which fired on Fort Sumter and turned the hoses on civil rights marchers.
Quote:3. Trump’s presidency has been the swan song of the old White society, or Society A, which is now no longer the undisputed possessor of government. Society B is now dominant, and shall remain so as the old White society continues to decline in population percentage, representation in congress and societal prestige. It will in time become a minority.
It has arguably been in the minority for a while now. Democrats have won the popular vote in six of the last seven presidential elections, and regularly earns more total votes in congressional elections (I believe Democrats have to have an overall 5 point advantage in congressional popular vote just to earn parity in congressional representation. It is only through means such as gerrymandering and the electoral college that the minority party has controlled government in this new century, and by any measure, that is where democracy has been failing lately.
Quote:4. American influence and prestige may never again fully recover or be what it was in the 20[sup]th[/sup] century.
The only reason we had that influence and prestige in the first place was because of two catastrophic world wars laying waste to literally all competing major world powers. It was never going to sustain itself forever.
That being said, our influence will be felt forever. Rome has been dead for 1,500 years, and yet its influence throughly saturates the entire world, from our governments to our language. America was the first successful democracy,
Quote:5. Society A and Society B will probably come into further conflict in the future, as they clash for control of the government, until they divorce nationally, or one dominates and suppresses the other.I think it's likeliest that Society A will die a natural and peaceful death of old age. At the very least, it will transform into something very different than it is now.
Quote:6. The West in general is highly decadent, and is not on a sustainable footpath. Western society no longer appreciates masculinity, but rather is trying to re-imagine it in a less masculine way.History is littered with the corpses of kingdoms and empires and nations which highly valued masculinity. Maybe it's overrated. Perhaps we ought to base our identities off of aspects which are more meaningful than that.
Quote:7. The more homogeneous a society is, the more stable it tends to be, because one body of people with a clear and obvious commonality between them (i.e. predominantly race, or religion) will naturally seek a herd mentality and a strong identity and sense of association with their 'herd'. It is a base human instinct to herd with similar people. All societies are created out of this instinct.
I think the solution is that we focus on our similarities more than our differences. If both sides are guilty of anything in similar measures, it's that we focus more on what makes us different from each other.
Quote:13. The Democratic left truly is heading towards socialism. Depending on your perspective, you might say that this is a natural and good evolution for our country. Another perspective is that this is just what happens when democracies become too free and decadent and and destroy themselves. Socialist societies, in turn, tend to curb freedoms in order to survive.
This is factually incorrect. No country, ever, became a Marxist/communist government by way of its people deciding to become communist via elections. Each and every single one of them came into being by way of violent revolution against totalitarian, autocratic regimes, or having it imposed upon them by a bigger communist power. Russia, China, Cuba, you name it, these were countries ruled by autocratic regimes going back centuries (if not millennia). It makes sense that the resulting communist governments were repressive and authoritarian, when the societies which gave birth to them never experienced liberal freedoms and the rule of law at any point in their history. Rule by strongman is literally all they have ever known.
What we are heading towards is nothing like that.